any have body work done?
04-26-01, 04:17 PM
#1
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i posted my misfortune in the GS400 section earlier this week. my 2000 GS4 was backed into last friday:
http://home.earthlink.net/~calbers07/wreckedlex5.jpg
anyway, i've been told that they need to paint the entire side of my car to match the paint correctly. has anyone had this done with the millennium silver lexus paint? i'm wondering how it will turn out...
http://home.earthlink.net/~calbers07/wreckedlex5.jpg
anyway, i've been told that they need to paint the entire side of my car to match the paint correctly. has anyone had this done with the millennium silver lexus paint? i'm wondering how it will turn out...
04-26-01, 04:51 PM
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Doesn't sound right to me. I've believe that a really good shop should be able to do an exact match on just the door.
Check with another shop.
P.S. Something to think about. Where on the side do they plan on stopping the new paint and why will they be better able to match the paint there than on the door? Why wouldn't they have to paint the whole car?
Check with another shop.
P.S. Something to think about. Where on the side do they plan on stopping the new paint and why will they be better able to match the paint there than on the door? Why wouldn't they have to paint the whole car?
Last edited by RealMarty; 04-26-01 at 04:54 PM.
04-27-01, 08:10 AM
#3
paint match
Lexus has a better paint job than just about any manufacturer out there. The powder coated bimmers are the best.
Yes, an excellent shop will be able to match the color right on and only paint the damaged area, blending it in so you cannot notice it.
Unfortunatly, such a shop is very, very uncommon and charges a premium. This is why most repair shops blend the paint along the entire side, this makes the color match variation less noticable.
The problem with these metallic coatings is that in the body shop world, they generally do not use electrostatic spray and a cure oven. This causes the mica and aluminum particles to align differently and cause variations from the original coating.
I would request the shop use OEM specified coatings and get a written color match guarantee prior to starting. The color match should be within 1.0 Delta E color tolorance using the CIELAB color space. It should also have a clause that it will pass your visual inspection in daylight, twilight, cloudy and sunny days.
Have them answere these questions: What is their surface preperation consist of? What chemistry paint will they use? How much millage will they apply (should be between 2.5 - 4.0 mils)?
If they balk at this, go elsewhere. This is a Lexus.
Yes, an excellent shop will be able to match the color right on and only paint the damaged area, blending it in so you cannot notice it.
Unfortunatly, such a shop is very, very uncommon and charges a premium. This is why most repair shops blend the paint along the entire side, this makes the color match variation less noticable.
The problem with these metallic coatings is that in the body shop world, they generally do not use electrostatic spray and a cure oven. This causes the mica and aluminum particles to align differently and cause variations from the original coating.
I would request the shop use OEM specified coatings and get a written color match guarantee prior to starting. The color match should be within 1.0 Delta E color tolorance using the CIELAB color space. It should also have a clause that it will pass your visual inspection in daylight, twilight, cloudy and sunny days.
Have them answere these questions: What is their surface preperation consist of? What chemistry paint will they use? How much millage will they apply (should be between 2.5 - 4.0 mils)?
If they balk at this, go elsewhere. This is a Lexus.
04-27-01, 11:23 AM
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Sorry, but I have a long story on this one.
When my silver GS4 was 1 yr old, I was parked in a crowded ice cream stand lot. I was just about to pick up my order when I saw my car jolt backwards from the corner of my eye. From where I was I could only see the backend, so I sprinted around the corner. 'Lo and behold a teenager in daddy's monster dodge ram pickup had put it into reverse instead of drive (nothing was in front of him). I thanked my lucky stars that the parking break wasn't engaged (the GS gave a little), the GS has surprisingly tough construction, and the kid had fast enough reflexes to ease off. With the truck's high fender, I had a slight smush/displacement in my hood around the driver's HID. I expected to be heart-broken.
You've seen the intricate ridge line of the GS hood that flows to the metal gap between the HID assembly and grille. I figured I was screwed and no one could ever reshape that. Luckily my brother knew a great body shop from a prior hit-and-run mishap. I insisted the kid's insurer to let me use this reputable guy and go for his whole recommendation. Here's what I learned:
1) Almost all dealers out-source body work. 2 Lexus dealerships in my area had different body partners -- neither had a remarkable reputation. Moreover, when I took delivery of my car, I had one of them attend to the front bumper which had plate holes drilled when I explicitly specified for them not to be. They "took care of it" using their body shop guy and the job looked good for about 7 months. After that, the paint started to flake and the outline of the holes could be seen as the filler sagged. I demanded a new bumper, which was promised to me as a contingency when they did the fix, but the dealer balked (he wanted to try the paint/repair method again). I sent hate-mail to that dealer and to Lexus. I use a different dealer now. Bottom line: you can't put your faith in the partnerships the dealer has with a given body shop. For this hood dent I did the leg work and had a talk with prospective shops about my car. I also did a walk through of their premises and perused their work. The one I used is owned/operated by a big chain car dealer in my area. Their warehouse was full of every make of lux/non-lux car -- even ones they don't sell. They are known to stand by their work forever, and are the epitome of "do it right the first time, don't cut any corners."
2) In my case since the work area was confined, they offered to get an OEM hood and paint match that. I was unwilling to risk the paint match/quality at that time (bad taste in my mouth from my prior experience). We agreed it would come to that if I was the least bit unhappy with the repair avenue. So instead they sanded down the area to bare metal, worked it like sculptors with little epoxy tabs (no drilling) and a shaping hammer (pulling, yanking, etc -- fascinating to watch). Passed her along to their paint room where they did a paint match test, did the whole factory layering process with primers, etc finishing up with clear-coat on the whole panel (in this case the whole hood; you can't just clear-coat an area cause it leaves ridges). I looked in on them every step of the way. Took a few days. They were simply artists.
3) I've seen body work outcomes before, and I'm one of these sticklers of the highest order. I was shocked with the quality of workmanship. I can't see where the paint blend ends, nor where the ridgeline was reworked. If you look really carefully at the fringes of my hood under the right light, you can see a slight excess reflection (from the clearcoat hanging on to the edges). These guys even tended to a depression on the inside of the hood where the hood bit into the inside causing a paint scraping. As an aside: I had them evaluate my bumper situation during this time. They spot on told me that the prior body work was downright shoddy: used the wrong paint (brittle urethane), didn't prep properly (didn't even sand through the clear and putty filled the holes), didn't finish with clear-coat. They did it right for me, and 1 yr out I can't tell there either.
Here's what I can tell you about your situation, given my experience:
1) Feel lucky that your damage is confined to a single panel. Although reshaping the metal in you situation is possible, the area to be repainted is large in comparison to the panel. Thus, replacement rather than repair is probably prudent (especially if the door handle comes with a new door -- who knows what interior structural damage has occured in that door).
2) Shop hard for a reputable body shop. The one I found had a higher standard of customer service than any business I have ever dealt with (including dealerships, restaurants, etc). If you're anywhere near the mid-atlantic, my recommendation is a no-brainer.
3) Painting the whole side of the car sounds like a clear sign of incompetence to me. Before my experience, I was skeptical and wanted to leave as much robotic/factory workmanship in place as possible. After my experience, I would have trusted them to get the replacement hood and paint the whole thing from scratch. Get this: they told me before-hand that the painting would not be the problem if I went that way. Instead, they said I had more to worry about the machining differences in the replacment OEM hood which might create bad mating (gap tolerance issues) with my existing body parts. How's that for wisdom.
I have one comment with regard to 933005spd's first sentence. My experience so far tells me that the appearance/workmanship of the Lexus paint is fantastic. However, I find the durability of it to be suspect. Seems to me that ever since clear-coats came along, manufacturers spend more $/effort on stuff that looks better, but inevitably chips easier from lack of material depth. Too bad I hate those bra's, cause I've found that it would really help for this car.
When my silver GS4 was 1 yr old, I was parked in a crowded ice cream stand lot. I was just about to pick up my order when I saw my car jolt backwards from the corner of my eye. From where I was I could only see the backend, so I sprinted around the corner. 'Lo and behold a teenager in daddy's monster dodge ram pickup had put it into reverse instead of drive (nothing was in front of him). I thanked my lucky stars that the parking break wasn't engaged (the GS gave a little), the GS has surprisingly tough construction, and the kid had fast enough reflexes to ease off. With the truck's high fender, I had a slight smush/displacement in my hood around the driver's HID. I expected to be heart-broken.
You've seen the intricate ridge line of the GS hood that flows to the metal gap between the HID assembly and grille. I figured I was screwed and no one could ever reshape that. Luckily my brother knew a great body shop from a prior hit-and-run mishap. I insisted the kid's insurer to let me use this reputable guy and go for his whole recommendation. Here's what I learned:
1) Almost all dealers out-source body work. 2 Lexus dealerships in my area had different body partners -- neither had a remarkable reputation. Moreover, when I took delivery of my car, I had one of them attend to the front bumper which had plate holes drilled when I explicitly specified for them not to be. They "took care of it" using their body shop guy and the job looked good for about 7 months. After that, the paint started to flake and the outline of the holes could be seen as the filler sagged. I demanded a new bumper, which was promised to me as a contingency when they did the fix, but the dealer balked (he wanted to try the paint/repair method again). I sent hate-mail to that dealer and to Lexus. I use a different dealer now. Bottom line: you can't put your faith in the partnerships the dealer has with a given body shop. For this hood dent I did the leg work and had a talk with prospective shops about my car. I also did a walk through of their premises and perused their work. The one I used is owned/operated by a big chain car dealer in my area. Their warehouse was full of every make of lux/non-lux car -- even ones they don't sell. They are known to stand by their work forever, and are the epitome of "do it right the first time, don't cut any corners."
2) In my case since the work area was confined, they offered to get an OEM hood and paint match that. I was unwilling to risk the paint match/quality at that time (bad taste in my mouth from my prior experience). We agreed it would come to that if I was the least bit unhappy with the repair avenue. So instead they sanded down the area to bare metal, worked it like sculptors with little epoxy tabs (no drilling) and a shaping hammer (pulling, yanking, etc -- fascinating to watch). Passed her along to their paint room where they did a paint match test, did the whole factory layering process with primers, etc finishing up with clear-coat on the whole panel (in this case the whole hood; you can't just clear-coat an area cause it leaves ridges). I looked in on them every step of the way. Took a few days. They were simply artists.
3) I've seen body work outcomes before, and I'm one of these sticklers of the highest order. I was shocked with the quality of workmanship. I can't see where the paint blend ends, nor where the ridgeline was reworked. If you look really carefully at the fringes of my hood under the right light, you can see a slight excess reflection (from the clearcoat hanging on to the edges). These guys even tended to a depression on the inside of the hood where the hood bit into the inside causing a paint scraping. As an aside: I had them evaluate my bumper situation during this time. They spot on told me that the prior body work was downright shoddy: used the wrong paint (brittle urethane), didn't prep properly (didn't even sand through the clear and putty filled the holes), didn't finish with clear-coat. They did it right for me, and 1 yr out I can't tell there either.
Here's what I can tell you about your situation, given my experience:
1) Feel lucky that your damage is confined to a single panel. Although reshaping the metal in you situation is possible, the area to be repainted is large in comparison to the panel. Thus, replacement rather than repair is probably prudent (especially if the door handle comes with a new door -- who knows what interior structural damage has occured in that door).
2) Shop hard for a reputable body shop. The one I found had a higher standard of customer service than any business I have ever dealt with (including dealerships, restaurants, etc). If you're anywhere near the mid-atlantic, my recommendation is a no-brainer.
3) Painting the whole side of the car sounds like a clear sign of incompetence to me. Before my experience, I was skeptical and wanted to leave as much robotic/factory workmanship in place as possible. After my experience, I would have trusted them to get the replacement hood and paint the whole thing from scratch. Get this: they told me before-hand that the painting would not be the problem if I went that way. Instead, they said I had more to worry about the machining differences in the replacment OEM hood which might create bad mating (gap tolerance issues) with my existing body parts. How's that for wisdom.
I have one comment with regard to 933005spd's first sentence. My experience so far tells me that the appearance/workmanship of the Lexus paint is fantastic. However, I find the durability of it to be suspect. Seems to me that ever since clear-coats came along, manufacturers spend more $/effort on stuff that looks better, but inevitably chips easier from lack of material depth. Too bad I hate those bra's, cause I've found that it would really help for this car.
04-27-01, 10:14 PM
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I have seen and heard matching metal flaked paint is difficult if not impossible. Also, cars painted offshore can use better paints that have been discontinued in this country due to stricter EPA requirements. I personally believe the restrictions are on the handling and equipment requirements which are very expensive for your average paint shop.
04-30-01, 02:43 PM
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I wanted to have my back bumper repainted because I have some scratches on it. The dealer quoted me $700 for JUST the bumper ! I went to an OEM and it was $280. The guy did a fantastic job on it !
$700-280= More money for mods.
$700-280= More money for mods.
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