600,000 miles without using synthetic oils or aftermarket oil & air filters
08-26-04, 04:13 AM
#46
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Here we go with the great old oil debate. Since I am pro synthetic all I will say is cut the BS and show some test results from your car. It is amazing that people say this and that oil works fine but that is not the complete story. Show me or post wear results, TBN number, viscosity after xxx mile, something.
Manufactures do not recommend it since 90% of people will screw it up. You are opening Pandora’s box here. Plus you can’t make a Global interval for all cars and trucks. There are a lot of variables to look at and some manufacture is not going to shot himself in the foot.
I did the regular oil and regular drains and it gave me nothing except ok results. Get a synthetic and see the results. You can do it yourself for about 2 oil drains and about $40 to test.
Manufactures do not recommend it since 90% of people will screw it up. You are opening Pandora’s box here. Plus you can’t make a Global interval for all cars and trucks. There are a lot of variables to look at and some manufacture is not going to shot himself in the foot.
I did the regular oil and regular drains and it gave me nothing except ok results. Get a synthetic and see the results. You can do it yourself for about 2 oil drains and about $40 to test.
Last edited by mburnickas; 08-26-04 at 04:15 AM.
08-26-04, 04:14 PM
#48
Lexus Champion
Re: Synthetic vs. Conventional
Originally posted by Neil64
In fact, some companies like Porsche run the synthetic 15K per interval. A good friend of mine who has had (2) 911s and one Boxter S has questioned Porsche dealers/mechanics on this philosophy and they all conclude the synthetic oil is fine to 15K and anything less is a complete waste of money.
In fact, some companies like Porsche run the synthetic 15K per interval. A good friend of mine who has had (2) 911s and one Boxter S has questioned Porsche dealers/mechanics on this philosophy and they all conclude the synthetic oil is fine to 15K and anything less is a complete waste of money.
You can do 15K with BMW with conventional oil too.
08-26-04, 05:06 PM
#49
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So what does an oil cooler matter since someone stated before that not turbo engines do not get that hot?
If BMW says 15K on dino why are we having this topic??????I would like to see the oils test with 15K on dino. I know my results with synthetic with over 12K and I would love to see how the 50 year old oil works...
If BMW says 15K on dino why are we having this topic??????I would like to see the oils test with 15K on dino. I know my results with synthetic with over 12K and I would love to see how the 50 year old oil works...
Last edited by mburnickas; 08-26-04 at 05:07 PM.
02-28-05, 12:21 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Neil64
Why don't we simplify the argument? If both cost the same, which would you buy? I hope synthetic because the only negative I know of vs. conventional is it can cause oil leaks in older engines as it flows better and dislodges old sludge.
I just bought my wife a 2001 RX300 with 42K and am debating using synthetic just because I do not think we will keep the truck more than another 40-50K. As Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic runs about $4.00/qt. and conventional is about $1.00-1.50/qt, synthetic is more than twice the price. So, the cost difference per oil change is $15.00 max based on a 5qt. capacity. As such, I know that the synthetic will flow better and faster, have better film strength, lower sludge and coking and last longer. I know most of you will tell me that I should still change the oil and filter every 3-5K but I am going to run the synthetic 8K with a filter change at 4K. From everything I have read and test results posted on the web, this looks perfectly acceptable. In fact, some companies like Porsche run the synthetic 15K per interval. A good friend of mine who has had (2) 911s and one Boxter S has questioned Porsche dealers/mechanics on this philosophy and they all conclude the synthetic oil is fine to 15K and anything less is a complete waste of money. Now Porsche builds some nice stuff, and I am pretty sure they expect their cars & customers to see redline more often that Lexus. Porsche and other manufactures put it in their highend, performance vehicles where extreme conditions may be experienced. I am sure they researched the benefits of synthetic oil in their labs and proving grounds before spending the additional money.
Now I know people are getting as much as 600K on this site out of their engines using conventional oil. To me, $15.00 – 20.00 more per oil change just to have quicker oil flow is worth it. To some it may not be. Then again, most us paid extra to drive a Lexus vs. a similar Toyota (ES300 – Camry, RX300 – Highlander, LX470 – Cruiser). Both are fine products with one having a higher perceived value.
I just want to use the best I can reasonably afford. If the cost of an oil change were to differ say by $100.00, then I would use conventional but for $15.00 – 20.00 per change, I’ll do the synthetic.
I just bought my wife a 2001 RX300 with 42K and am debating using synthetic just because I do not think we will keep the truck more than another 40-50K. As Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic runs about $4.00/qt. and conventional is about $1.00-1.50/qt, synthetic is more than twice the price. So, the cost difference per oil change is $15.00 max based on a 5qt. capacity. As such, I know that the synthetic will flow better and faster, have better film strength, lower sludge and coking and last longer. I know most of you will tell me that I should still change the oil and filter every 3-5K but I am going to run the synthetic 8K with a filter change at 4K. From everything I have read and test results posted on the web, this looks perfectly acceptable. In fact, some companies like Porsche run the synthetic 15K per interval. A good friend of mine who has had (2) 911s and one Boxter S has questioned Porsche dealers/mechanics on this philosophy and they all conclude the synthetic oil is fine to 15K and anything less is a complete waste of money. Now Porsche builds some nice stuff, and I am pretty sure they expect their cars & customers to see redline more often that Lexus. Porsche and other manufactures put it in their highend, performance vehicles where extreme conditions may be experienced. I am sure they researched the benefits of synthetic oil in their labs and proving grounds before spending the additional money.
Now I know people are getting as much as 600K on this site out of their engines using conventional oil. To me, $15.00 – 20.00 more per oil change just to have quicker oil flow is worth it. To some it may not be. Then again, most us paid extra to drive a Lexus vs. a similar Toyota (ES300 – Camry, RX300 – Highlander, LX470 – Cruiser). Both are fine products with one having a higher perceived value.
I just want to use the best I can reasonably afford. If the cost of an oil change were to differ say by $100.00, then I would use conventional but for $15.00 – 20.00 per change, I’ll do the synthetic.
03-03-05, 12:33 AM
#51
Pole Position
Originally Posted by toy4two
Porsche used to require something like 15 quarts of oil per change! That may have chaned with the new water cooled engines, but that might justify the 15k change interval. With that much oil it shouldn't need as much changing.
I doubt that has anything to do with the extended drain interval. The german cars are very well known to burn oil to boot! I purchasing a case of Amsoil (ASL) 5W 30 tomorrow actually & some of their heavy duty oil filters. All I have to do is change it twice a year & I'll bet (purchasing the products wholesale) my costs for synthetic oils changes will be lower than most pay for conventional oil changes.
03-04-05, 05:55 PM
#52
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The letter of the month in the last Car and Driver was a tech who basically said this.
The 3k oil change is B.S and its extra B.S if you use synthetic. But they want you to buy more oil, more filters, more service etc.
He said he sees cars come in with 3k on synthetic and its brand new basically. He takes the oil and uses it in his cars.
My pops SC 400 has 240k miles, my ES has 212k miles. Oil changed (no synthetic) every 5-7k, no engine problems. And in my case, no sludge.
The 3k oil change is B.S and its extra B.S if you use synthetic. But they want you to buy more oil, more filters, more service etc.
He said he sees cars come in with 3k on synthetic and its brand new basically. He takes the oil and uses it in his cars.
My pops SC 400 has 240k miles, my ES has 212k miles. Oil changed (no synthetic) every 5-7k, no engine problems. And in my case, no sludge.
03-04-05, 06:17 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The letter of the month in the last Car and Driver was a tech who basically said this.
The 3k oil change is B.S and its extra B.S if you use synthetic. But they want you to buy more oil, more filters, more service etc.
He said he sees cars come in with 3k on synthetic and its brand new basically. He takes the oil and uses it in his cars.
My pops SC 400 has 240k miles, my ES has 212k miles. Oil changed (no synthetic) every 5-7k, no engine problems. And in my case, no sludge.
The 3k oil change is B.S and its extra B.S if you use synthetic. But they want you to buy more oil, more filters, more service etc.
He said he sees cars come in with 3k on synthetic and its brand new basically. He takes the oil and uses it in his cars.
My pops SC 400 has 240k miles, my ES has 212k miles. Oil changed (no synthetic) every 5-7k, no engine problems. And in my case, no sludge.
03-04-05, 06:32 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by DetMich1
My 1992 SC400 has over 338,000 miles on it. They're racking up slower than before now that my 17 year old daughter is doing the bulk of the driving. I NEVER pampered the engine, sometimes going 10,000 miles on conventional oil between changes. Also have used 89 octane gas for years, no pre-ignition or run-on problems. Burns less than a quart of oil between 5,000 mile interval oil changes, I'm told by Lexus that is still within factory specs.
340k is very impressive
I am sure he hopes to get there with you.
03-05-05, 10:14 AM
#55
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by toy4two
Porsche used to require something like 15 quarts of oil per change! That may have chaned with the new water cooled engines, but that might justify the 15k change interval. With that much oil it shouldn't need as much changing.
03-05-05, 04:29 PM
#56
hum.... should i stop using Mobile 1 then? if I turn back to regular oil do you think it will affect my car since it has been absorbing Mobile 1 since the first service?
Damn, I told my wife I won't change car until my GS die on me. I hope my car don't last 600K miles..... hahahha
Damn, I told my wife I won't change car until my GS die on me. I hope my car don't last 600K miles..... hahahha
03-05-05, 05:00 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The letter of the month in the last Car and Driver was a tech who basically said this.The 3k oil change is B.S .
03-05-05, 05:42 PM
#58
Originally Posted by saber
Yeah but the Car & Driver tech is an American and what do Americans know when it comes to automotive durability compared to the Asians? That same Car & Driver tech would probably also say its also OK to use aftermarket antifreeze, brake fluid, spark plugs, etc. in an Asian car.
03-05-05, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JellyBean
I I used the cheapest of everything, regularly. The key word is *regularly*. As long as you keep up with the maintanenace, your car will last a very long time.
Instead, they will still own a reliable car with little mechanical wear and tear and which could still be running virtually like new after more than 400,000 miles like my 1992 450,000+ mile Toyota does http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog92.jpg
As you can see I still pass the tough California smog test even though everything mechanical on the car is still original (engine, catalytic converter, EGR valve, distributor, igniter, ECU, fuel injectors, fuel pump, radiator, etc.) Only normal inexpensive wear items have needed replacement (alternator, water pump, oxygen sensors.
03-06-05, 06:20 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by saber
But the Asian car owner who uses genuine Asian car parts, fluids, filters and lubes will NOT be owning a well worn and marginally reliable car after 200,000 miles that may soon need repairs that would exceed the value of the vehicle.
Instead, they will still own a reliable car with little mechanical wear and tear and which could still be running virtually like new after more than 400,000 miles like my 1992 450,000+ mile Toyota does http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog92.jpg
As you can see I still pass the tough California smog test even though everything mechanical on the car is still original (engine, catalytic converter, EGR valve, distributor, igniter, ECU, fuel injectors, fuel pump, radiator, etc.) Only normal inexpensive wear items have needed replacement (alternator, water pump, oxygen sensors.
Instead, they will still own a reliable car with little mechanical wear and tear and which could still be running virtually like new after more than 400,000 miles like my 1992 450,000+ mile Toyota does http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog92.jpg
As you can see I still pass the tough California smog test even though everything mechanical on the car is still original (engine, catalytic converter, EGR valve, distributor, igniter, ECU, fuel injectors, fuel pump, radiator, etc.) Only normal inexpensive wear items have needed replacement (alternator, water pump, oxygen sensors.
I agree that most times the Asain parts are better but the lubes and fluids are almost equal. But on the flip side I know many people that go hundreds of thousands of miles on aftermarket parts. If you change them out, like jellybean states you should not have a problem. This is the SAME process the airlines use.
Just to close the emissions checks are nothing short of a joke. I live in MA and they are right behind CA and just because the car passes does not mean it is any better then another car.
Last edited by mburnickas; 03-06-05 at 06:23 AM.
