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Old 05-06-04, 08:01 PM   #1
drcrougeux
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Question Advice On Oil ?

New guy needs some wisdom....

have a 92 SC 300. 50,000 miles. no leaks. am wondering if the c/o from 'reg oil'
to synthetic oil is a wise move....

yes----------or-----------------no.......let me know.............

thanks in advance............
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Old 05-06-04, 08:13 PM   #2
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My 92sc300 has 160k but the motor was replaced (Brand Spankin New) 35k ago... Thats what prompted me to buy my car...
Anyway, I switched to synthetic and I love the smoothness of the engine. Don't really know if I gained on acceleration but the engine is even more silky smooth...
Synthetic all the way..!!
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Old 05-06-04, 08:31 PM   #3
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If you are sure you are going to keep the car for the next 100,000 miles or so then synthetic should be able to outweigh its cost. There's also a psycological effect because you know that you're saving gas, lowering dependence on foreign oil, being Mr. E for efficiency.

Not only that but if you say that you've always used synthetic it could bump up your resale value a couple of dollars 10 years from now .
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Old 05-06-04, 08:37 PM   #4
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FYI- Costco always carries Mobil1 for $23.99

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Old 05-07-04, 12:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup
If you are sure you are going to keep the car for the next 100,000 miles or so then synthetic should be able to outweigh its cost. There's also a psycological effect because you know that you're saving gas, lowering dependence on foreign oil, being Mr. E for efficiency.

Not only that but if you say that you've always used synthetic it could bump up your resale value a couple of dollars 10 years from now .
Because of the extra film from synthetic oil, actually you will get less mileage from using synthetic motor oil.
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Old 05-07-04, 08:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by autodriver
Because of the extra film from synthetic oil, actually you will get less mileage from using synthetic motor oil.
I'm just curious, where did you get that information? Does it apply to a certain brand or grade of synthetic? I'd like to know if some synthetic grades/brands do indeed get worse gas mileage.

Nonetheless, from what I've read, synthetic is better than dino oil in most respects. It's more pure (hence the term synthetic), lasts longer, keeps your engine cleaner, is more durable, and gets better mileage than normal dino oil. At least that's what I've been reading on Amsoil and Mobil1's websites.

A couple of quotes from Amsoil (but would apply to synthetic motor oils in general)--mind you, it is factory literature, but keep in mind that Amsoil would be liable for a bad lawsuit if their claims were false:

Did you know that any petroleum motor oil only has a film strength of about 400 psi where AMSOIL has a film strength of 3300 psi and does not break down, shear or loose viscosity under heat and stress? Petroleum motor oil breaks down under heat and stress and leaves carbon, varnish and sludge deposits in your engine and allows your critical engine components to wear much more rapidly.

AMSOIL Series 2000 synthetic oils are designed for tremendous fuel efficiency and perform in extreme high temperature environments far better than any other lubricant.

In cold weather operating conditions you'll find your vehicle will start as if it were summer.

When you factor in the better fuel economy, longer lasting spark plugs, longer starter life and other components from using AMSOIL, THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil has been proven the best for 30 years and will dramatically improve your vehicles performance, fuel economy and life.

From Mobil1's website:

First of all, the performance of Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is more robust, especially in terms of low-temperature pumping and flow. High-temperature stability and protection against deposits are also superior. These attributes translate directly into less engine wear and longer engine life.

Historically, conventional oils lack the performance of synthetic oils in the areas of low-temperature performance and high-temperature oxidation stability. Conventional oils also contain much greater amounts of impurities, such as sulphur, reactive and unstable hydrocarbons, and other undesirable contaminants that cannot be completely removed by conventional refining of crude oils.

Synthetic motor oils are designed to perform even under severe conditions, such as very cold starting temperatures, extreme high-temperature operations and high-load conditions.


From Valvoline's website:

Compared to conventional oils, SynPower:
*Provides excellent engine cleanliness through superior sludge and varnish protection
*Helps reduce engine wear at high temperatures with improved viscosity stability
*Provides outstanding high-temperature protection under severe driving conditions
*Provides superior cold-temperature protection through faster oil flow at start-up
*Helps improve and maintain fuel efficiency for the life of the oil

Last edited by SeattleGS400; 05-07-04 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 05-07-04, 10:02 AM   #7
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I would recco it. Wal Mart sells 5 liter jugs in a variety of brands for like $20.XX. Although the cost is a bit higher, the oil does have it's benefits. I went 10.5K miles on my Mobil 1 and the test results from Blackstone Labs repoprted that it was on par for an oil that would be at 5K miles. For me, oil changes at 5k miles...no need. That alone off-sets dino oil as I can go 2X over that change interval with a synthetic.

Of course, you have to be comfortable and if your engine is not "tight" you may find oil migration and leakage through some seals.
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Old 05-07-04, 10:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeattleGS400 Did you know that any petroleum motor oil only has a film strength of about 400 psi where AMSOIL has a film strength of 3300 psi and does not break down, shear or loose viscosity under heat and stress?
[/i] [/B]
Amsoil fails to tell the public that hundreds of Toyota owners have driven 500,000 miles or more without an engine overhaul using dinosaur oil http://www.saber.net/~monarch/leowarfield.JPG

Amsoil and Mobil have had 30 years to provide the public with data proving their synthetics improve fuel economy by X amount compared to dinosaur oils or will extend the life of engines by X amount yet have failed to do so.

So I think it's reasonable to assume Amsoil and Mobil don't want the public to see the fuel economy and engine wear comparison data they have. The jobs of hundreds of 6 and 7 figure executives at Amsoil and Mobil might be threatened if the public knew the truth - that synthetics offer no substantial benefits. Just marginal, almost undetectable fuel economy and engine wear benefits.
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Old 05-07-04, 01:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by saber
So I think it's reasonable to assume Amsoil and Mobil don't want the public to see the fuel economy and engine wear comparison data they have. The jobs of hundreds of 6 and 7 figure executives at Amsoil and Mobil might be threatened if the public knew the truth - that synthetics offer no substantial benefits. Just marginal, almost undetectable fuel economy and engine wear benefits.
I concur. A minor improvement at best. It's like putting in 91 octane fuel, "if it makes you feel any better than go ahead"...but no real noticable benefits...
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Old 05-07-04, 01:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by saber
Amsoil fails to tell the public that hundreds of Toyota owners have driven 500,000 miles or more without an engine overhaul using dinosaur oil http://www.saber.net/~monarch/leowarfield.JPG

Amsoil and Mobil have had 30 years to provide the public with data proving their synthetics improve fuel economy by X amount compared to dinosaur oils or will extend the life of engines by X amount yet have failed to do so.

So I think it's reasonable to assume Amsoil and Mobil don't want the public to see the fuel economy and engine wear comparison data they have. The jobs of hundreds of 6 and 7 figure executives at Amsoil and Mobil might be threatened if the public knew the truth - that synthetics offer no substantial benefits. Just marginal, almost undetectable fuel economy and engine wear benefits.
Where do I begin. . .

1. Those that have drive 500K or more on their Toyota engines, is that on dino oil or synthetic oil? Is it documented that they used one or the other? How did they drive their cars--softly, very hard; city miles or highway, did they live in hilly environments? How religious were they w/ maintenance? Lastly, if Toyota engines do indeed last that long (which I don't doubt), it makes you wonder how much longer they'd last on synthetics? Also, why is it that just about EVERY race engine uses synthetic in the engine--is it just cool to do so or is there another reason behind it?

I do agree with you on the fact that the synthetic manufacturers don't published just how much better the gas mileage is vs. regular dino-oil. Given all other factors involved, for me, I'd rather just spend a little more, knowing I got some of the best engine oil (i.e. synthetic) for my car, as I plan on keeping it for a while.

2. See the wear test image below. You'll find many others on the web (and other similar stress tests), even from non-Amsoil manufacturers, and you'll find that synthetics prevent wear better than dino-based oils in the lab. The only caveat of the graph, I must admit, is that it does not have any dino-oils on it, but I can find some more info for you vs. the dino oils, better yet, there's plenty on the web that you can find comparisons between them all (I have seen such an independent research site, but I need to dig back in my searches for them--it's not on CL, however).

3. If you have a strong case vs. the oil manufacturers and they are duking us out of our money from gross false advertising, why don't you present your information here, followed then to the FTC for false advertising, and make some money off of it? We, as consumers, would all be better off--seriously.

Summarily, for me, I won't believe in something unless I have enough proof, but from a chemical standpoint (one of my previous academic areas of study by the way is Chemistry), synthetics have an inherent advantage over the somewhat impure dino-based engine oils. For me, it's not that big of an extra expenditure on getting extra protection for somethnig I replace about 3x a year.
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Last edited by SeattleGS400; 05-07-04 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 05-10-04, 11:32 AM   #11
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Default back-n-forth between synthetic & regular oil

Hi all, what's the verdict on switching between synthetic & regular oil, back-n-forth??

Proc/cons, anyone with concrete proof or just myths??

I'm in a debate with this issue and wanted some more background info. on the topic.


Thanks.
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Old 05-10-04, 06:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: back-n-forth between synthetic & regular oil

Quote:
Originally posted by RX469
Hi all, what's the verdict on switching between synthetic & regular oil, back-n-forth??
On Toyota's website www.toyota.com, The Toyota engineers say NO to switching back and forth.
They also say NO to extending oil changes when using synthetic.
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/syn.jpg
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Old 05-10-04, 07:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Re: back-n-forth between synthetic & regular oil

Quote:
Originally posted by saber
On Toyota's website www.toyota.com, The Toyota engineers say NO to switching back and forth.
I have to wonder if they say no because:

1. they ran tests and the test definately provide data which indicates alternating is not a good idea. If so, that data should then be viewable by the public upon request.

OR

2. they have NOT run extensive tests and have no data that says it is really ok to switch back and forth, so they just give a blanket NO and keep themselves out of possible liablility troubles that way.

I would really like to hear from someone that HAS alternated and had problems develop.

Personally, I have alternated in multiple vehicles and have had no problems that are macroscopically evident.

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Old 05-10-04, 07:32 PM   #14
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Default synthetic benefits ??

Anyone knows what properties synthetic oils provide over regular oil, besides the ability to greatly disipate heat and great lubricating benefits.

Can anyone expound a bit more on symthetics over conventional oils.
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Old 05-10-04, 09:23 PM   #15
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Motor oil bible. See page 47 Synthetic vs Petroleum

http://motor-oil-bible.com/mob-2-2-04.pdf
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Old 05-10-04, 09:23 PM
 
 
 
 
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