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Old 03-03-05, 09:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburnickas
Saber- too bad I do not know what “synthetic” oil you mean. Dino oil (hydrocracked) are considered synthetics when they are not true synthetics. This topic on dino vs synthetic are as boring as watching flies since you post zero date. You post this and that from some website or whatever. I can and have posted oil tests of real users of both.

I did a simple test of dino and a synthetic. I put them in the freezer and then next day tried to pour. My 15w-40 came out like a spring day and the dino I had to wait to see if it even poured out! Not rocket science.

Time to take off the blinders. Everyone is moving to longer drains and synthetics. The people that are not going since Wal-mart does not sell a good PAO or easter based oil.

I posted a simple oil test of a dino user and me a synthetic user. You can see the difference. Mine is very close in number with over 3X longer! Do you have any tests you have done????? Well?
Agreed mburn! We talked about this same subject (comparing dino vs. synthetic by putting a bottle of each in the freezer) & the bottom line was the Synthetic (Mobil 1 at the time) flowed much better than the dino oil (Castrol), hence much better 'start up' protection which is where most engine damage occurs!

I just purchased my Amsoil (ASL 5W 30, although the Amsoil dude, was trying to sell me the 0W 30 grade, but I didn't bite) products including the oil filter and a bottle of Amsoil engine flush. I've have contacted Mobil 1 head office three times now to get some product info on their new 'extended drain interval' synthetic, but I keep getting the same song & dance after several weeks now of trying "We have no product information at this time"

mburn, I also wanted to ask about the oil filters........I got 2 Amsoil & I am using my last K & N when I do my next oil change first. I got to tell ya, the K & N feels much heavier & more solid than the Amsoil filter.......is the Amsoil filter really that good? Just feels like the K & N filter has more filtering properties over the Amsoil brand (and the Amsoil is called a "super duty" oil filter).
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Old 03-04-05, 12:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexusfreak
hence much better 'start up' protection which is where most engine damage occurs!
Even after 7,000 cold starts (= 2 cold starts a day for 10 years) on conventional dino oil a Toyota engine will not have hardly any wear you can see or feel. That may be one reason none of the synthetic oil companies has ever shown the public any photos or other direct evidence of a start up wear advantage from using synthetic (because the advantage is minor to negligible)

Any owner seriously concerned about cold start up wear should get a genuine Toyota engine block heater (they're inexpensive). However an engine block heater is:

- not "modern and high tech"
- not a "cool fashinable engine mod"
- not highly advertized
- not wrapped in flashy, attention grabbing product packaging and labeling.

Sooo......that's probably why the young folks here aren't interested in Toyota engine block heaters.
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Old 03-04-05, 01:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saber
Even after 7,000 cold starts (= 2 cold starts a day for 10 years) on conventional dino oil a Toyota engine will not have hardly any wear you can see or feel. That may be one reason none of the synthetic oil companies has ever shown the public any photos or other direct evidence of a start up wear advantage from using synthetic (because the advantage is minor to negligible)

Any owner seriously concerned about cold start up wear should get a genuine Toyota engine block heater (they're inexpensive). However an engine block heater is:

- not "modern and high tech"
- not a "cool fashinable engine mod"
- not highly advertized
- not wrapped in flashy, attention grabbing product packaging and labeling.

Sooo......that's probably why the young folks here aren't interested in Toyota engine block heaters.
Here ya go saber:

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx

And actually, I was quite disappointed to learn when I purchased my 01 ES, that it did not come with an engine block heater as standard equipment (My 01 Nissan Maxima SE did....go figure! remember the VQ series engine from Nissan has won one of the 10 best engines in the world now for something like 11 or more years ).

Personally, I think a block heater is much more efficient & more useful than say these remote staters that some auto makers offer (not to mention the aftermarket firms). I'm courious why you listed those reasons why some people might not get a block heater......I can't even tick off one of those reasons for why I bought a Lexus to begin with, never mind a block heater!
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Old 03-04-05, 03:39 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexusfreak
Agreed mburn! We talked about this same subject (comparing dino vs. synthetic by putting a bottle of each in the freezer) & the bottom line was the Synthetic (Mobil 1 at the time) flowed much better than the dino oil (Castrol), hence much better 'start up' protection which is where most engine damage occurs!

I just purchased my Amsoil (ASL 5W 30, although the Amsoil dude, was trying to sell me the 0W 30 grade, but I didn't bite) products including the oil filter and a bottle of Amsoil engine flush. I've have contacted Mobil 1 head office three times now to get some product info on their new 'extended drain interval' synthetic, but I keep getting the same song & dance after several weeks now of trying "We have no product information at this time"

mburn, I also wanted to ask about the oil filters........I got 2 Amsoil & I am using my last K & N when I do my next oil change first. I got to tell ya, the K & N feels much heavier & more solid than the Amsoil filter.......is the Amsoil filter really that good? Just feels like the K & N filter has more filtering properties over the Amsoil brand (and the Amsoil is called a "super duty" oil filter).
Mobil is a good oil but to match Amsoil or Redline they need kick it up a level. The problem with making a better oil is more people will not pay for it. There new oil Mobil EP is around $5.50 a qt and most Wal-Marters will not pay there.

Mobil's new oil is overpriced in my book. I can go up to 40% longer using Amsoil and it cost about the same or less (if you know people).

I would have to look up the materials and there densities for the weight. But it really does not matter since you need to use Amsoil filter to Extended drains. Amsoil does not know the capacity and efficiently of K&N. So far the best oil filters out there, I feel, are Mobil, Amsoil (Baldwin) and Fleetguard.

The amsoil 0w-30 will perform a little better in your ES. Just like there Series 3000 will. It will be more shear stable and have/has a better add package; hence more $$$$. But I still use there ASL for now.

Mobil Extended Performance Oils
5w-30 57.2 @40c 10.2 @100c
5w-30 57.2 @40c 10.2 @100c
10w-30 62.6 10.1
10w-40 91.3 14.2
15w-50 136.5 18.7
Here is a pic of the Reg Mobil vs Mobil EP. Noithing really sticks out here.
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Last edited by mburnickas; 03-04-05 at 03:47 AM..
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Old 03-04-05, 03:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saber
Even after 7,000 cold starts (= 2 cold starts a day for 10 years) on conventional dino oil a Toyota engine will not have hardly any wear you can see or feel. That may be one reason none of the synthetic oil companies has ever shown the public any photos or other direct evidence of a start up wear advantage from using synthetic (because the advantage is minor to negligible)
Without seeing any data or better yet a oil test, that means zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saber
Any owner seriously concerned about cold start up wear should get a genuine Toyota engine block heater (they're inexpensive). However an engine block heater is:

- not "modern and high tech"
- not a "cool fashinable engine mod"
- not highly advertized
- not wrapped in flashy, attention grabbing product packaging and labeling.

Sooo......that's probably why the young folks here aren't interested in Toyota engine block heaters.
They are not interested since more “young folks” use a better oil (real synthetic) in there little racers and you do not need a heater. Also most “young people” have the car "raced up" and so far Toyota engine heaters do not aid in speed. It is more weight and there [toyota] dino oil will not hold up to there racing temps, shear, OCD, NOX etc.

To close, you "think" a guy or woman with a luxury car is going to walk out in snow to plug the car in or remember to unplug it? Sure, that will be that day. They are more worried about the coffee and the cell phone. If you use the correct engine oil, the step is not needed.

Again think about it. Most owners of these cars, can't even add air to the tires, plug the car in...sure.
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Old 03-06-05, 02:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburnickas
Mobil is a good oil but to match Amsoil or Redline they need kick it up a level. The problem with making a better oil is more people will not pay for it. There new oil Mobil EP is around $5.50 a qt and most Wal-Marters will not pay there.

Mobil's new oil is overpriced in my book. I can go up to 40% longer using Amsoil and it cost about the same or less (if you know people).

I would have to look up the materials and there densities for the weight. But it really does not matter since you need to use Amsoil filter to Extended drains. Amsoil does not know the capacity and efficiently of K&N. So far the best oil filters out there, I feel, are Mobil, Amsoil (Baldwin) and Fleetguard.

The amsoil 0w-30 will perform a little better in your ES. Just like there Series 3000 will. It will be more shear stable and have/has a better add package; hence more $$$$. But I still use there ASL for now.

Mobil Extended Performance Oils
5w-30 57.2 @40c 10.2 @100c
5w-30 57.2 @40c 10.2 @100c
10w-30 62.6 10.1
10w-40 91.3 14.2
15w-50 136.5 18.7
Here is a pic of the Reg Mobil vs Mobil EP. Noithing really sticks out here.
Thanks for posting the 'regular' Mobil 1 & the new 'extended drain' Mobil 1 specs mburn!

I agree that the ASL 5W 30 Amsoil is more than enough for what I need......I got it for wholesale which actually ended up being cheaper than the Mobil 1 I usually purchase at Walmart by the jug! by about $2.25! Tha Amsoil oil filters were about on par with both the K & N & Mobil filters respectfully. The Amsoil dealer wanted too about $2.65 more per qt bottle for the 0W 30 which I felt was over kill to be honest.

For some reason, I was expecting the Amsoil filters to 'feel' more heavy duty overall (just because of the length of time they are good for extended drains I guess). However they do look like they are constructed differently when you look inside the filter compared to the others so it's all good. Thanks again!
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Old 03-06-05, 02:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Lexusfreak
Thanks for posting the 'regular' Mobil 1 & the new 'extended drain' Mobil 1 specs mburn!

I agree that the ASL 5W 30 Amsoil is more than enough for what I need......I got it for wholesale which actually ended up being cheaper than the Mobil 1 I usually purchase at Walmart by the jug! by about $2.25! Tha Amsoil oil filters were about on par with both the K & N & Mobil filters respectfully. The Amsoil dealer wanted too about $2.65 more per qt bottle for the 0W 30 which I felt was over kill to be honest.

For some reason, I was expecting the Amsoil filters to 'feel' more heavy duty overall (just because of the length of time they are good for extended drains I guess). However they do look like they are constructed differently when you look inside the filter compared to the others so it's all good. Thanks again!

No problem. I feel that Mobil EP oil is still too low in ZDDP and they MUST be hoping the Boron gets the oil through. My used Amsoil with over 12K miles still has more ZDDP. unreal.
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Old 03-06-05, 02:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburnickas
No problem. I feel that Mobil EP oil is still too low in ZDDP and they MUST be hoping the Boron gets the oil through. My used Amsoil with over 12K miles still has more ZDDP. unreal.
I remember you mentioning that in the past. I'm putting the Amsoil in my ES on Tuesday (also bought an Amsoil engine flush which I will use too). My Dad has also switched & just put in the Amsoil ASL in his 2002 Buick Century.
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Old 05-27-05, 07:10 AM   #39
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Default Synthetic Oil

As an engineer (Industrial not Mechanical, but with a mechanical bent), I have been interested in and pursuing information on the value of synthetics for years. My conclusion led me to switch to synthetic years ago.

I have also wondered for years why no company seems to just come out and say their oil reduces wear and make your engine last longer. After watching the many lawsuits in the media on every possible range of subjects, I have concluded that no company would want to make wear claims. To do so opens them up to jeopard.. Can you imagine the advertisement in the newspaper. It would go something like this: Do you have a car? Have you ever used a synthetic oil? Have you ever had an engine related problem? Did your engine last less than 500,000 miles?
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Old 05-27-05, 08:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachdrive
As an engineer (Industrial not Mechanical, but with a mechanical bent), I have been interested in and pursuing information on the value of synthetics for years. My conclusion led me to switch to synthetic years ago.

I have also wondered for years why no company seems to just come out and say their oil reduces wear and make your engine last longer. After watching the many lawsuits in the media on every possible range of subjects, I have concluded that no company would want to make wear claims. To do so opens them up to jeopard.. Can you imagine the advertisement in the newspaper. It would go something like this: Do you have a car? Have you ever used a synthetic oil? Have you ever had an engine related problem? Did your engine last less than 500,000 miles?
Here are Amsoil's product info for their ASL 5W 30 synthetic.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx
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Old 05-27-05, 11:34 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachdrive
I have also wondered for years why no company seems to just come out and say their oil reduces wear and make your engine last longer. After watching the many lawsuits in the media on every possible range of subjects, I have concluded that no company would want to make wear claims. To do so opens them up to jeopard..
Actually these synthetic oil companies used to make those claims over 10 years ago. FTC put a stop to it because none of these companies have any data to prove their claim. Synthetic vs Dino is like Trump Ice water vs Sam's Club water. Trump Ice is nice, but I won't live longer by drinking it.

So use synthetic oil if you want. It's a free country. Just keep in mind that few people care to drive a car with over 500,000 miles anyway. Even with a working engine, many other parts will fail or deteriorate. It makes no financial or practical sense to fix up a beater. Chances are the car will be traded in long before 500,000 miles - and wrapped around a utility pole by a teenage or drunk driver.

Dino oil will keep the car running longer than most people care to keep it. And most cars last longer than most marriages nowadays. Maybe it's time that people get their priority straight.
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Old 05-27-05, 01:49 PM   #42
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Harrier AWD makes a great point. In fact it is applicable to almost everything we all do. I took a year long financial planning course (for my personal education not to practice). It is amazing how many financial decisions we all make based on poor information or no information. One of the best was in the field of insurance. For example - if you had a rock go thru your windshield and it cost $300-$800-$1200 to replace, could you put it on your credit card? Answer is yes. On the other hand, if someone fell at your house and won a million dollars from you, could you put that on your credit card? Or if you were in a car accident (your fault) and lost a $1 million settlement and your insurance covered $300,000, could you put $700,000 on your credit card? I cant.

So why do we all pay carry a low deductible insurance to cover windshields, but not for "unbrella" coverage to kick in to cover the things we cant afford? Shouldn't insurance be for the things we cant afford?
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Old 05-30-05, 11:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by beachdrive
I have also wondered for years why no company seems to just come out and say their oil reduces wear and make your engine last longer. After watching the many lawsuits in the media...
Probably because synthetic oil doesn't really significantly "reduce wear and make your engine last longer". I've been to other countries like Mexico where the lawsuit factor doesn't come into play yet the labels on the Mobil 1 sold down there don't make "longer engine life" claims either.
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Old 05-31-05, 02:36 AM   #44
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it is true that we won't drive our car 500K miles and would probably get a new or another car within 2 or 3 years. so which oil you're pick is up to you and wouldn't destroy your car.

but for me. i'll put out that extra few bucks for syntec oil. my coolens were leaking for a while without me knowing.. then while i was driving the heater needle went up almost max. so i guess if i didn't use syntec oil i would of gotten a greater harm of breaking my engine(head gasket or whatever) than using it.
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Old 05-31-05, 03:10 AM   #45
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Probably because synthetic oil doesn't really significantly "reduce wear and make your engine last longer". I've been to other countries like Mexico where the lawsuit factor doesn't come into play yet the labels on the Mobil 1 sold down there don't make "longer engine life" claims either.
I posted Amsoil's product claims above.
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