Your opinion on Cayenne Turbo, GL, X5, Escalade....
02-10-09, 12:03 PM
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Your opinion on Cayenne Turbo, GL, X5, Escalade....
With its disappointing and tastless exterior design LX is steel alive thanking to famous Lexus quality.
There are much nicer cars such as Porsche Cayenne Turbo, BMW X5, Cadillac Escalade, Range Rover, Mercedes GL550, Infinity QX and etc. Even Mercedes G is nicer than LX570. Probably it is the ugliest premium SUV in the market ( exterior).
Being MUCH nicer some of these cars lose to LX because they are in smaller category, but some lose as I heard because their ride is not so soft, quality is not so high.
I know this is LX570 forum. But everything is determined on comparison.
What do u know about quality of competitors SUVs ?
There are much nicer cars such as Porsche Cayenne Turbo, BMW X5, Cadillac Escalade, Range Rover, Mercedes GL550, Infinity QX and etc. Even Mercedes G is nicer than LX570. Probably it is the ugliest premium SUV in the market ( exterior).
Being MUCH nicer some of these cars lose to LX because they are in smaller category, but some lose as I heard because their ride is not so soft, quality is not so high.
I know this is LX570 forum. But everything is determined on comparison.
What do u know about quality of competitors SUVs ?
02-10-09, 02:35 PM
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For what is worth - prior to buying a 570, I spent about 6 months repeatedly test driving 8 cylinder SUV’s (I needed boat towing capability). It actually worked to my advantage that the 570 was not immediately available at that time, and because I did not need a vehicle until spring, I was able to take my time.
My experience
Porsche Cayenne Turbo – In short, incredible to drive. The most fun I ever had test driving a vehicle – not sure how Porsche does it, but they make vehicles that are incredible to get behind the wheel and take off. I was so impressed by driving it; I failed to notice anything else about the interior design, etc. Cons – reliability. The dealer made a big deal (too much) about how they would come to my house to retrieve the vehicle every time it needed servicing – the consumer reports data indicated that would be often.
Mercedes GL – Nice styling (interior and exterior). Pleasant and smooth ride, fantastic 3rd row seat. Cons- navigation system is horrendous (the salesman confessed he could not understand it well enough to demo it). Same with other controls. Between that and projected reliability, I walked away.
Escalade – this was the only vehicle that felt too much like driving a truck (if you like that, its fine). Actually, it felt like a big truck. Smooth enough ride, but lane changes, maneuvering were not great. The ergonomics (radio position, climate controls, etc.) just did not seem “right” to me. The 3rd row seat storage was a joke.
BMW X5 – very nice interior and exterior design. Great ride (although a little stiffer than most) – cool details (back up camera “projects” your path based on the way the front wheels are turned). I could not get comfortable with the “i-control”. Cramped third row and difficult entrance and exit to it.
Range Rover – too functional, confusing and “square” of an interior design (and I’m an engineer). Ride was “OK”. Nothing memorable. They were in play at the time (before Tata bought them), and I wasn’t sure who I would be dealing with. Nothing resonated with me and this vehicle.
Infinity – big vehicle. I know the 570 is no beauty queen, but I could not get comfortable with the front end and design of the infinity – too “battle ship galactica” for me. This is one that I never drove – took repeated stops and looked, but never got sufficiently interested to take a drive.
LX 570 – (what I purchased). The external looks are not inspiring (the salesman whenced when I called it a large Highlander). However, I like the interior design and layout. Very comfortable ride. We often use the adjustability of the second row seat. 4 zone AC is nice – as are heated second row seats. Height adjustment, etc. We have teenagers and they and their friends think the vehicle is “awesome” (go figure). Third row is very usable (we switch often between sitting friends of our kids back there and cargo room). Very quiet. Reliability reports on Lexus were exceptional – I have had no issues with it. We are getting our value out of it.
My experience
Porsche Cayenne Turbo – In short, incredible to drive. The most fun I ever had test driving a vehicle – not sure how Porsche does it, but they make vehicles that are incredible to get behind the wheel and take off. I was so impressed by driving it; I failed to notice anything else about the interior design, etc. Cons – reliability. The dealer made a big deal (too much) about how they would come to my house to retrieve the vehicle every time it needed servicing – the consumer reports data indicated that would be often.
Mercedes GL – Nice styling (interior and exterior). Pleasant and smooth ride, fantastic 3rd row seat. Cons- navigation system is horrendous (the salesman confessed he could not understand it well enough to demo it). Same with other controls. Between that and projected reliability, I walked away.
Escalade – this was the only vehicle that felt too much like driving a truck (if you like that, its fine). Actually, it felt like a big truck. Smooth enough ride, but lane changes, maneuvering were not great. The ergonomics (radio position, climate controls, etc.) just did not seem “right” to me. The 3rd row seat storage was a joke.
BMW X5 – very nice interior and exterior design. Great ride (although a little stiffer than most) – cool details (back up camera “projects” your path based on the way the front wheels are turned). I could not get comfortable with the “i-control”. Cramped third row and difficult entrance and exit to it.
Range Rover – too functional, confusing and “square” of an interior design (and I’m an engineer). Ride was “OK”. Nothing memorable. They were in play at the time (before Tata bought them), and I wasn’t sure who I would be dealing with. Nothing resonated with me and this vehicle.
Infinity – big vehicle. I know the 570 is no beauty queen, but I could not get comfortable with the front end and design of the infinity – too “battle ship galactica” for me. This is one that I never drove – took repeated stops and looked, but never got sufficiently interested to take a drive.
LX 570 – (what I purchased). The external looks are not inspiring (the salesman whenced when I called it a large Highlander). However, I like the interior design and layout. Very comfortable ride. We often use the adjustability of the second row seat. 4 zone AC is nice – as are heated second row seats. Height adjustment, etc. We have teenagers and they and their friends think the vehicle is “awesome” (go figure). Third row is very usable (we switch often between sitting friends of our kids back there and cargo room). Very quiet. Reliability reports on Lexus were exceptional – I have had no issues with it. We are getting our value out of it.
02-10-09, 03:40 PM
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'burgh, thanks for your useful comments.
Anyhow, I must point out very important moment I touched here before. Don't u think that apart of quality a car must attract as a girl and touch your heart. Otherwise why to make nice cars at all ?
For me I like cayenne Turbo and Turbo-S ( not Cayenne-S or simple Cayenne) and X5 BMW more than others. But I have been driving 2004 LX470 for 4 and more years and I know the quality of Lexus. Between words, I bought it brand new, and had the following 2 problems during these 4 years: mulfunction of DVD under the seat, and I lost around 2500 $ for changing it after 2 years,and then both motors of the steering wheel burned suddenly and I changed them also ( around 500$). Not so much for 4 years.
Do u think Cayenne Turbo really has so many problems, as I know last assembly is done in Germany. Isn't ? What about reliability of X5 ?
Anyhow, I must point out very important moment I touched here before. Don't u think that apart of quality a car must attract as a girl and touch your heart. Otherwise why to make nice cars at all ?
For me I like cayenne Turbo and Turbo-S ( not Cayenne-S or simple Cayenne) and X5 BMW more than others. But I have been driving 2004 LX470 for 4 and more years and I know the quality of Lexus. Between words, I bought it brand new, and had the following 2 problems during these 4 years: mulfunction of DVD under the seat, and I lost around 2500 $ for changing it after 2 years,and then both motors of the steering wheel burned suddenly and I changed them also ( around 500$). Not so much for 4 years.
Do u think Cayenne Turbo really has so many problems, as I know last assembly is done in Germany. Isn't ? What about reliability of X5 ?
02-10-09, 05:41 PM
#4
I think these SUVs you are comparing are in totally different categories. If you want the best on-road car like SUV, than the LX is definitely not the winner. But for basically everything else, it is just the best. Car and Driver said:
"...every C/D editor who drove the new LX570 came back to the office, looked sheepishly at his shoes, then said in a small voice, “Holy crap, I love that thing.”
"Drive solo in this behemoth and enviro-conscious citizens give you the stink eye, as if you’ve fired up an unfiltered Camel in the produce section of Whole Foods. Which is a shame because the LX570 may well be the most desirable SUV on the planet."
You can read the full review at http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
"...every C/D editor who drove the new LX570 came back to the office, looked sheepishly at his shoes, then said in a small voice, “Holy crap, I love that thing.”
"Drive solo in this behemoth and enviro-conscious citizens give you the stink eye, as if you’ve fired up an unfiltered Camel in the produce section of Whole Foods. Which is a shame because the LX570 may well be the most desirable SUV on the planet."
You can read the full review at http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
02-10-09, 10:20 PM
#5
I do not like any of the pictures of the LX570. In person, its sheer size and simplicity does pose a handsome presence.
Now, it's not drop-dead gorgeous, but I find it handsome and appealing to the masses. And for a small handful of consumers that need a $80k+ full-size SUV, you need to grab the most amount of those consumers, rather than polarizing a few enthusiasts here and there. The LX does not cater to those who buy exotic looking sports cars; the LX caters to a select few that tow their boats, portable polo horse stables, and other trailered cars.
It is everyday functionality meeting old-school money. The LX is a conservative man's SUV.
Believe me, it touches that man's heart in its simplicity. It may not attract like a hot bikini model, but it does get the girl with the brains to get the job done...
02-11-09, 11:54 AM
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I can't find LX570 simple. Conversely, I find it as failed attempt of its designers to make modern looking car with muscles, they even invent new word for designation of BMW-kind muscle designs, don't remember that word here. LX570 is not simple, it is ugly.
Its design is worser than LX470 which was simple. And we should recognise that Lexus designers completely came to grief ( fiasco !) in comparison with BMW designers.
Only 1 step remains to make this LX570 the best car in the world of SUVs, its exterior design. And in this 1 step the Japanese are always behind of Germans.
Its design is worser than LX470 which was simple. And we should recognise that Lexus designers completely came to grief ( fiasco !) in comparison with BMW designers.
Only 1 step remains to make this LX570 the best car in the world of SUVs, its exterior design. And in this 1 step the Japanese are always behind of Germans.
02-11-09, 01:22 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Why are you bashing the LX? What are you trying to achieve with this?
I personally like the LX570 more and more.
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02-11-09, 03:43 PM
#8
The lx is not beautiful but i like it, i like the lx470 even more, much better then the over flashy escalade, at least in my mind. The x5, on the other hand is just, well not pleasant. It looks no better in person then it does in pictures, but then again this is just a personal opinion, in my mind the best looking suv is between the range rover and g wagon. The lx just because it is very incognito, i don't need a car/truck/ any thing to make people know i've just arrived
02-11-09, 04:14 PM
#9
I'm a fan of the cayenne and test drove a normal S and a Turbo back in December. The cayenne is great but you'll have to get one with a production date of late 05 or newer to get one that is of good quality. i really liked the turbo but having read some posts on 6speedonline, I don't the fact that it consumes oil constantly so I'd probably go with an S.
the new S looks great, the GTS looks better. I think the GTS might be a great used car in the next couple of years.
on the other hand, I've seen great used prices for the 400h which got high praises from consumer reports when they reviewed luxury SUVs (the cayenne ranked low). I don't think the LX is the same size as the cayenne so I think a better comparison would be the 400h. The reliability is great on these 400hs so I might be in the market for one in the next 5-6 months. I was really bent on the Cayenne but unless I get a certified pre-owned one at the dealer merely for the warranty, I don't think it would be worth it.
btw - I keep talking used cars because I don't see the value in buying a new car.
the new S looks great, the GTS looks better. I think the GTS might be a great used car in the next couple of years.
on the other hand, I've seen great used prices for the 400h which got high praises from consumer reports when they reviewed luxury SUVs (the cayenne ranked low). I don't think the LX is the same size as the cayenne so I think a better comparison would be the 400h. The reliability is great on these 400hs so I might be in the market for one in the next 5-6 months. I was really bent on the Cayenne but unless I get a certified pre-owned one at the dealer merely for the warranty, I don't think it would be worth it.
btw - I keep talking used cars because I don't see the value in buying a new car.
02-11-09, 04:49 PM
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And the main meaning of this subject is the following. I'm pretty satisfied with the quality of LX470 I bought new in 2004. But I'm not satisfied with its acceleration on highway. I was going to exchange it with LX570, but I 'm completely disappointed with its exterior. So I thought that the world of cars is not rotating just around this ugly but quality LX570. For 100% all premium SUVs are nicer than LX570, and I just wanted to clarify quality issue of other SUVs with members of this forum.
02-11-09, 05:58 PM
#11
I am one of those who decided not to get the 570 as well, instead got one of the remaining 470s (coming from a 98 LX470 since new). Purely based on the exterior design, larger size and none-removable 3rd row.
The Cayenne is a nice looking lifted minivan, with some serious engine. If this is what you are looking for - it's a great choice. Not so if an ideal SUV for you is a tough truck with real off-road capability and heavy-duty approach.
BMW.... can't get the grasp of it ever since they abandoned the pininfarina designs. The current line up to me looks ugly, well, sorry - UGLY. Otherwise see previous paragraph on Porsche.
Mercedes G is great, pretty much for everything. Even reliability is OK (for a Mercedes). This is coming from an ex G-owner. I would consider it again. Yet again, it is direct opposite to that of Cayenne/X5/X6 etc. Merc GL - I don't 'get it', so can't comment.
Range Rover have zero attraction to me. But logically makes better 'sense' than some others. I could consider it before going Porsche/BMW route. But still not really.
It is a sad time right now, not much to chose from imho. I'll wait for the next LX generation, though there is no quarantee that there will be something attractive. Well, somebody else will come up with something eventually, I'm sure.
The Cayenne is a nice looking lifted minivan, with some serious engine. If this is what you are looking for - it's a great choice. Not so if an ideal SUV for you is a tough truck with real off-road capability and heavy-duty approach.
BMW.... can't get the grasp of it ever since they abandoned the pininfarina designs. The current line up to me looks ugly, well, sorry - UGLY. Otherwise see previous paragraph on Porsche.
Mercedes G is great, pretty much for everything. Even reliability is OK (for a Mercedes). This is coming from an ex G-owner. I would consider it again. Yet again, it is direct opposite to that of Cayenne/X5/X6 etc. Merc GL - I don't 'get it', so can't comment.
Range Rover have zero attraction to me. But logically makes better 'sense' than some others. I could consider it before going Porsche/BMW route. But still not really.
It is a sad time right now, not much to chose from imho. I'll wait for the next LX generation, though there is no quarantee that there will be something attractive. Well, somebody else will come up with something eventually, I'm sure.
02-11-09, 10:04 PM
#12
Isn't the Cayenne still a VW Touareg in disguise? I would not touch the Touareg with a ten foot pole due to reliability issues. The same goes for the Cayenne. Like Alex, i don't particularly "get" the super sports SUVs...if you want sports, then get the REAL thing, Porsche cars!
BMW X5...i like. Yeah, i don't particularly get it either, but i see it as a cool wagon. I like it. It is probably the only one in it's class that i would get.
Escalades are junk inside and out. Cheap materials used throughout. If i had a choice among the GM big SUVs, then i will probably pick a Denali or Tahoe over the Escalades.
Mercedes GL is a good one...it is kinda like the middle ground between off-road capable big SUVs and sports-oriented SUVs. The diesel one is attractive. And from what i hear, the quality and reliability ain't too shabby either.
Range Rover is a reliability nightmare. Remember, it is now owned by an Indian motor company, Tata. Resale value, customer service, etc.??? Too many variables...not gonna waste my penny on finding out. However, i must say that, IMHO, the Range Rover has the best looking exterior shape, bar none. The interior styling ain't bad either.
Mercedes G-wagen. Obviously, i am a little bias. However, as some of you may know me, i try to be fair. My brother has an '01 LX470. I can tell you that at this time, my repair bills on my G is less than my brother's (at equivalent mileage). Even though Alex may disagree, the LX has it's shares of "issues" (exhaust manifolds, starter, air suspension, etc.). But, certainly, it is definitely up there in quality and reliability...is it the best? I don't know because it does have it's issues.
As for the G-wagen, it is not for everyone...you must really love it or you are tolerant of it's truckish ride...and you really need to take it off-road to really appreciate it over the other SUVs. It practically has the best 4wd system on the planet from factory, bar none IMHO.
The new LX570 exterior shape is definitely growing on me. I don't like it in light colors...the darker colors make it look a bit more menacing. IMHO, it is the top dog in terms of an all-around SUV.
My opinion.
BMW X5...i like. Yeah, i don't particularly get it either, but i see it as a cool wagon. I like it. It is probably the only one in it's class that i would get.
Escalades are junk inside and out. Cheap materials used throughout. If i had a choice among the GM big SUVs, then i will probably pick a Denali or Tahoe over the Escalades.
Mercedes GL is a good one...it is kinda like the middle ground between off-road capable big SUVs and sports-oriented SUVs. The diesel one is attractive. And from what i hear, the quality and reliability ain't too shabby either.
Range Rover is a reliability nightmare. Remember, it is now owned by an Indian motor company, Tata. Resale value, customer service, etc.??? Too many variables...not gonna waste my penny on finding out. However, i must say that, IMHO, the Range Rover has the best looking exterior shape, bar none. The interior styling ain't bad either.
Mercedes G-wagen. Obviously, i am a little bias. However, as some of you may know me, i try to be fair. My brother has an '01 LX470. I can tell you that at this time, my repair bills on my G is less than my brother's (at equivalent mileage). Even though Alex may disagree, the LX has it's shares of "issues" (exhaust manifolds, starter, air suspension, etc.). But, certainly, it is definitely up there in quality and reliability...is it the best? I don't know because it does have it's issues.
As for the G-wagen, it is not for everyone...you must really love it or you are tolerant of it's truckish ride...and you really need to take it off-road to really appreciate it over the other SUVs. It practically has the best 4wd system on the planet from factory, bar none IMHO.
The new LX570 exterior shape is definitely growing on me. I don't like it in light colors...the darker colors make it look a bit more menacing. IMHO, it is the top dog in terms of an all-around SUV.
My opinion.
02-12-09, 03:28 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
I actually like Tahoe's exterior more than Escalade's
02-12-09, 04:26 AM
#14
