spwolf

Nope. Certainly not. It is first application of mutliterrain ABS in Toyota vehicle, ever. It is completly automatic. For all intentive purposes, it basically shuts off ABS when not needed.

It would be obvious that KDSS is using different suspension setup - raised probably? Additionally, AHC is using 20" wheels/tires and KDSS is using 18", both exclusivly.

Main difference is when offroading is that KDSS lets wheels articulate a lot more - 105mm, and it is really impressive in real life.

Yes, it is quite possible. It is however impossible that Toyota engineers were wrong, especially since it was head engineer for region.

I never claimed AHC and KDSS can be on same vehicle - they can not, obviously. You missunderstood me writing about being able to order LC200 with AHC or KDSS in Australia and Europe at least, unlike in USA where KDSS is reserved for LC200 and AHC is for LX.

I was just replying to your angles info and explaining that info is based on AHC version of LC200 with normal suspension on. All those PR's, Blogs or whatever are refferencing AHC suspension at normal mode, not KDSS system.

I will be more than happy to answer any of your questions about LC200.

spwolf

Here are some pics, I only had my iphone with me... I should get some real pics in few days.

Check articulation there...






New Diesel V8

tigmd99

As for the multi-terrain ABS, it may be new software, but the concept ain't new. This was describe in Toyota LC100 brochure: "The four-wheel ABS operates even in low-range four-wheel drive. As road surface roughness increases, ABS intervention decreases. The system responds to steep slopes, as well, preventing early activation to allow the driver more control."

Hmmm, sounds familiar? And, yes, it was called "multi-terrain ABS" in an older brochure. I even think that my old '02 4runner had it, but i won't claim it as fact though.

So, if the TLC with KDSS has a higher lift suspension, then shouldn't the vehicle height be different?? Well, guess what? The LX is actually higher by 1 in. at NORMAL suspension setting.

As for rim size differences...285/50/20 is EQUAL to 285/60/18. So, even though the rims are different in size, the total circumference is more or less the same. So, the tire differences is out the window...so, i am not even sure why you brought up the rim sizes unless you really don't know what the numbers mean!

To make it simple, how does a Land Cruiser get higher angles IF overall height and tire size are the same or less than LX570 at NORMAL setting??

Needless to say, in EVERY Toyota literature to date (dare i say anywhere in the world!), the TLC approach/departure angles are 30/20.

KDSS does allow more articulation...never said otherwise.

Maybe instead of answering questions...maybe you need to do some reading!

spwolf

lol... LC with KDSS is actually higher vehicle than one with AHC. Just check official website I mentioned, it clearly states that.


As I explained before, previous systems could do 10-30% lockup, multi-abs does up to 70%... difference in 30% better stopping distance from 70kmh in desert. It is not new software, its new hardware. Previous sensors were much much slower. For instance, when it got out LC120 had the best DAC system in the world that could 8-12kmh DAC while Land Rovers did >12kmh.... New LC200 with can do 1kmh. Up to 3 years ago, no ABS in the world operated below 5-8kmh.


But hey, be my guest... get info from blogs, and PR sites, they know more.

spwolf

Once again, these are facts... For some reason you want to believe what you want to believe - I dont know why really? Because you have G500 and new LC200 has to be inferior?

tigmd99

Remind me though...how is the new KDSS different from GX's KDSS?? Since you clearly do not understand how KDSS system works, i am interested in your views.

I would even bet that you don't even know what the tire specs mean because you mentioned it as if there was something special about the rim sizes!

There you go again with that ONE site...while every TOYOTA site on every other continent states otherwise. What makes that site so much more reliable??

I think that you have shown pretty clear that you are the typical Honda/Toyota/Lexus salesman regurgitating what the upper levels have fed you. If you think about it, then you will see that what you're saying does not make sense.

As for G500 vs. TLC200, i could care less. The TLC is a lot more comfy and bigger...and is light years better on-road. Off-road, i would take the G500 for reasons mentioned earlier. The TLC200/LX570, IMHO, is the best on-road/off-road compromise SUV on the planet...Range Rover comes in a close second. I have no argument about that.

BTW, my brother has '01 LX470 and i am a big Toyota fan too...i probably own more Toyota within the past 5 years than most people on here! (Well, that shows you how good i am with my finances!)

With what is mentioned above, i would take the LX570 over the TLC200 because it can raise itself higher. Wheel articulation is nice, but since CRAWL control is pretty good, i would trade it off for more clearance which the LX570 can provide. The 20 degree departure angle is pretty damn low and creates a lot of limitations off-road.

What i do have a problem is with salesman talking BS to customers and misinforming them.

tigmd99

To throw more questions into your claim...the previous TLC100 vehicle height is the same as the new TLC200. The tires are a tiny bit smaller. It's approach/departure angles are 31/24.

So, how can the TLC200 with much LONGER OVERHANGS, same wheelbase, and same overall height get 24 degree departure angle?? Oh yeah, the previous generation also had more ground clearance, but you don't need to trouble yourself with that fact...i want to keep it simple for you. Can you see that what you're claiming is not physically possible??! Am i missing something??

spwolf

lol.

I am just going to laugh from now on.

Sorry dude, I did all i could... Have fun with your G500.

tigmd99

Wait...you still have not explain the KDSS system yet!! You claim that the GX system does not link front and rear axles together...how does it work then??? I want to know from an expert like yourself.

If you're so insightful, then educate me please with my questions. I am here to learn from salesmen like yourself. I love it when these salesman goes into forums and think that they know stuff...dude, go out and learn about off-roading, angles, tire sizes, etc..

spwolf

lol.

You gotta be kidding me.

You were right about KDSS in GX - but we dont have GX in Europe, which is why I dont know much about it. However, GX still has a lot smaller wheel articulation than LC200.

You were wrong about everything else.

Main point of argument was departure angles. You dont want to accept the fact that LC200 is better offroader than LC100. I dont care why.

I have shown you official european site which tells you the difference between KDSS and AHC. KDSS vehicle is taller which means suspension is as well, as everything else is the same. Angles are different. Period. It is an fact.

Also - your tire stuff - you do realize the difference in circumstance is 19mm of those two tires? They are not the same.

Also LC200 does not have smaller ground distance than LC100 - at least I dont know what version of LC100 are you talking about since there were many. Best standard version of LC100 had same ground clearance as LC200 with KDSS (225mm). LC100 is completly different car - you cant just compare wheelbases with ignoring everything else. It is moot point since angles are exactly the same. It could be as simple as differently shaped bumpers. Who knows?

I am not salesman - I am owner of Toyota dealership that just went to training attended by head engineer for our region.

You never rode, drove or checked out LC200 properly, and you still claim "facts" you read from PR releases that are generalized.

You are wrong, I am right. It is that simple. It is not subjective, it is not something you can discuss - those are the correct angles, everything else is wrong.

So yeah, have fun, accept my info or not, thats all I have to say on the matter.

Mr. Jones

just as an FYI, the 80's series landcruisers were the last with solid axles.
Also electronic lockers became available for both front and rear differentials, center diff lock was standard

And according to Lexus website the LX570's center diff can be locked.

looknow12

The GX470 ranks high up there too. It won 4 wheeler of the year twice and was the only vehicle (at least at the time) that they ran the Rubicon trail with it basically stock. (bumpers, running boards not withstanding)

pagemaster

There are three suspensions for the LC. Europe just so happened to get two of them. In Australia you can get a LC without KDSS however AHC is not available.

The GX front and rear are also linked. I would argue that the GX system and the LC systems are identical for the most part. Also, the GX has rear AIR height suspension which can raise the rear of the vehicle.

WRONG. Toyota 4runner, first gen Sequioa (05-06), Lexus Gx470 all have rear AIR suspension only which requires no maintenence. The Toyota Land Cruiser (06-07) and the LX470 have hydraulic suspension that raises at all four corners.

Wheel base of the 80 series, 100 series and 200 series are all indentical. The 200 series is 4 inches longer and slightly wider than the 100 series.

From what I have read. The departure angle is down 3 degrees in the LC 200.

Probably some PR guy claiming he is an engineer.

pagemaster

I have read that the LC in Australia is unavailbe with AHC because the Toyota engineers wanted the vehcile to have ultimate reliability and be easily servicable in the field in case of a break down.

tigmd99

spwolf,

So, as a toyota dealership owner, you do have an interest in hyping up the TLC...because everyone has gotta have bread on the table, right?

Do you guys have Toyota Land Cruiser Prados over there?? It's the same as GX here in US.

When did i say that the TLC100 was better off-road?? It depends on terrain. Crawl control is pretty cool tool to have. However, when it comes to terrains that require good angles, i think that TLC100 has the advantage.

I don't know about Europe TLCs...however, TLCs everywhere else (Australia, US) have departure angle of 20 degrees. THIS IS FROM OFFICIAL TOYOTA SPECS. Why is that hard for YOU to understand??

KDSS may be taller in Europe for whatever weird reason you can come up with, but everywhere else, it is NOT. Period. FACT.

So, by your link, the KDSS vehicle is even higher than AHC in HIGH mode...that does not strike you as strange??!!

As for tire sizes between 285/50/20 vs. 285/60/18...the circumference officially is is 0.6" different...diameter is 0.3"...radius differ by a whopping 0.1"!!! Wow...big difference...and how does that affect what we're talking about??? So, again, NO SIGNFICANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TIRES. Learn to read the numbers before posting!

Ground clearance for TLC100 is 9.8 in...and i have confirmed this with my brother's stock LX470.

Of course, you can compare wheelbase! When the wheelbase & height are the same while the overhangs lengthened, this means that approach & departure angles suffer. It's not rocket science...i am not sure why you are having trouble understanding this. Who knows? I know...because this has been much debated when you talk about aftmarket bumpers. And for that, you can't even get one now that the bumpers are "integrated" with the body. So much for aftermarket mods!

I have crawled all over it and drove the new TLC200. It seems to me that you're trying real hard to sell this vehicle and ignoring physical facts and basic math. I would assume that someone who owns a dealership would have more credentials and honesty. I stand corrected.