Lexus LX570 to debut at NYIAS

[jjbodean]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Yeah.......

you sound skeptical. you must have info that i dont have. please share.

[Sal Collaziano]

I'm skeptical because I think it's very unLexus-like to make such bad decisions. First, having two mid-size SUVs to beginwith. Second, for redesigning them and STILL ending up with two mid-size SUVs. And third, for not competing in the fullsize luxury SUV market.

It's as stupid as having two full-size luxury cars. Why not just have the LS460 and the LS460.5?

[jjbodean]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

It's as stupid as having two full-size luxury cars. Why not just have the LS460 and the LS460.5?

you mean kinda like if they came out with an LS460 and an LS460L?

[STIG]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

I'm skeptical because I think it's very unLexus-like to make such bad decisions. First, having two mid-size SUVs to beginwith. Second, for redesigning them and STILL ending up with two mid-size SUVs. And third, for not competing in the fullsize luxury SUV market.

It's as stupid as having two full-size luxury cars. Why not just have the LS460 and the LS460.5?

You call LX a midsize SUV?

I'd say keep the current dimension. LX is suppose to be a luxo ute. Not bling bling SUV like Escalade or Navigator. Range Rover is doing well, and it's not as big as Escalade.

I hope jjbodean is right. I like to see new LX similar to current dimension.

[Sal Collaziano]

I suppose if you want to play, then sure. But they're both the exact same car with a stretched wheelbase. The same advertising and research & development money goes into both the 460 and 460L. It's pretty standard these days with Mercedes, Audi, Chrysler, Ford, Cadillac, Lincoln and almost everybody else doing it.

We have the GS3 and the GS4. That's fine.

It would make more sense if there was an LX and an LX-L or a GX and a GX-L in that case. It just seems silly to have two vehicles competing against one another. Like Chevy having both the Camaro AND the Firebird. They're the same car. There's no room for both. All the advertising and R&D going into both can be given to one.

Lexus needs to keep the GX where it is and increase the size of the LX to compete with Cadillac, Lincoln, Mercedes, Land Rover and Hummer. Just think of all the sales that Lexus could steal from these various companies - if they had a full size luxury SUV.

Instead, they have two midsize luxury SUVs. It's a silly mistake.

[Sal Collaziano]

Yes, the LX is a midsize SUV. If I'm in the market for a full-size SUV and I want to buy a Lexus, I'm out of luck. I have to shop at Mercedes, Cadillac or Lincoln. Why?

If you want a midsize SUV, you have the GX. Why not increase the size of the LX? Obviously Lexus sales-people are trained to make one believe they're walking up to a BIG SUV at the test drive. They say things like "And Here's the BIG one!" emphasising BIG. After just getting out of a GX, "WTF are you talking about?! It's the same damned size"! heh!

[MPLexus301]

Sal, perhaps you aren't aware of this but the interior of the Mercedes GL is comparable to that of an X5 or Q7 in passenger space. It looks quite big from the outside, however the interior is noticeably smaller than the LX. I sat in both the ML and GL, and LX at the auto show a few weeks ago and I find Mercedes' strategy to be very interesting. The ML is about the size of a Rav4...there is decent room in the second row but you're not exactly comfortable, and the rear cargo area is barely acceptable for grocery runs. The RX 350 has a bigger and more comfortable interior than the ML.

Like I said, the GL is not a very big car on the inside. The rear seats of the Audi Q7 and even the GX470 have more space than the Mercedes, and the LX is FAR more comfortable compared to the GL.

Furthermore, the Hummer is a rebadged Tahoe and while the Escalade is the same, at least the Caddy has a little more class, and a half decent interior. I don't really think that H2's and LX's are cross shopped very often.

The existing LX is bigger than the GL and Range Rover, and a little smaller than the Escalade and Navigator. They don't need to be the biggest...especially since more size is going to sacrifice off road ability.

I think the "top" of the SUV class is ruled by the Range Rover, LX, and GL 450. The Escalade and Hummer I don't really consider in the same breath considering that they lack the necessary cachet IMO, though the top variants of the Escalade are quite nice. The range Rover, LX, and GL are all built on highly praised platforms that are capable on and off road, and it has been proven time and time again. They all also utilize better quality interior materials and features and come from more esteemed brands.

If Lexus stretches the LX a little bit here and there, they will be fine. Then there is a better fit for the GX and still leaves a little wiggle room for it's redesign.

Lastly, your classification is wrong. The LX is classified as a FULL SIZE SUV. If you don't believe me then double check it.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by MPLexus301

Sal, perhaps you aren't aware of this but the interior of the Mercedes GL is comparable to that of an X5 or Q7 in passenger space. It looks quite big from the outside, however the interior is noticeably smaller than the LX. I sat in both the ML and GL, and LX at the auto show a few weeks ago and I find Mercedes' strategy to be very interesting. The ML is about the size of a Rav4...there is decent room in the second row but you're not exactly comfortable, and the rear cargo area is barely acceptable for grocery runs. The RX 350 has a bigger and more comfortable interior than the ML.

Like I said, the GL is not a very big car on the inside. The rear seats of the Audi Q7 and even the GX470 have more space than the Mercedes, and the LX is FAR more comfortable compared to the GL.

Furthermore, the Hummer is a rebadged Tahoe and while the Escalade is the same, at least the Caddy has a little more class, and a half decent interior. I don't really think that H2's and LX's are cross shopped very often.

The existing LX is bigger than the GL and Range Rover, and a little smaller than the Escalade and Navigator. They don't need to be the biggest...especially since more size is going to sacrifice off road ability.

I think the "top" of the SUV class is ruled by the Range Rover, LX, and GL 450. The Escalade and Hummer I don't really consider in the same breath considering that they lack the necessary cachet IMO, though the top variants of the Escalade are quite nice. The range Rover, LX, and GL are all built on highly praised platforms that are capable on and off road, and it has been proven time and time again. They all also utilize better quality interior materials and features and come from more esteemed brands.

If Lexus stretches the LX a little bit here and there, they will be fine. Then there is a better fit for the GX and still leaves a little wiggle room for it's redesign.

Lastly, your classification is wrong. The LX is classified as a FULL SIZE SUV. If you don't believe me then double check it.

Everything you said makes sense.

I wish there was a bigger Lexus SUV.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Yes, the LX is a midsize SUV. If I'm in the market for a full-size SUV and I want to buy a Lexus, I'm out of luck. I have to shop at Mercedes, Cadillac or Lincoln. Why?

If you want a midsize SUV, you have the GX. Why not increase the size of the LX? Obviously Lexus sales-people are trained to make one believe they're walking up to a BIG SUV at the test drive. They say things like "And Here's the BIG one!" emphasising BIG. After just getting out of a GX, "WTF are you talking about?! It's the same damned size"! heh!

I don't know where you're getting your info, but the LX is officially classified and considered to be a full size SUV, despite what your opinion of it may be. It's noticeably bigger than the GX.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

I don't know where you're getting your info, but the LX is officially classified and considered to be a full size SUV, despite what your opinion of it may be. It's noticeably bigger than the GX.

I don't remember where I read the LX was classifed as a mid-size, but if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.. I didn't make it up.. When all is said and done, the LX and GX are too close in size. I wish the LX would set itself apart from the GX more than it does. However, I'm only one voice. I do see that most Lexus enthusiasts are just fine without a BIG SUV...

[MPLexus301]

Sal-
I think that you've got a good point about the differences between the LX and GX being minimal. Truthfully though, in real world use, the LX's size advantage becomes obvious when you load the cargo area with stuff, or you want to carry more than 4 people. They are closer in size than the competition, but also, Lexus has carved out a very successful niche for themselves with these vehicles. The RX is one of their best selling products, the GX moves in solid numbers and is one of very few luxury utility vehicles that can tow and also tackle the tough stuff. Consider Land Rover's ****ty reliability and quality, and you really are left with one brand if you want an off road luxury vehicle: Lexus. The LX is the "ultimate" Lexus SUV in more features and quality than size, because truthfully the average family would be fine with a GX with the third row. The LX is a little bigger, a little nicer, and just offers a slightly different flavor than the GX.

I think we are used to the American car companies which have cookie cutter sizes and classes, and Lexus has carved out their portion of the SUV market a little differently than the Americans have. And they have also been quite successful, so why should they change their strategy?

If they push the LX a little bit in every dimension, then it widens the gap between it and the GX and spreads the lineup out a bit more, while still appealing to people who like the LX because it ISN'T the size of an Escalade or Navigator. Some people don't want all of that heft, which again, impairs off road ability (as well as parking, driving, braking, fuel economy, and various other things). If you live in the mountains or go there often, or live in a cold climate and have $75K to blow on something that needs to seat your entire family and all of your stuff, and be able to tackle ice/snow/water/dirt/mud...the LX is really the only choice. It's nice to see that Lexus is not changing it's strategy much.

[jwhitaker]

A friend of mine just got back from the dealer unveiling of the LX in LA. It isn't a true full-size by American standards. It is not significantly different than todays dimensions.

[jjbodean]

i will restate numbers i have posted here in the past. this is info i received back in november, but i havent gotten anything different since.

lx570 will be extremely similar in exterior dimensions to todays lx470. the firewall has been pushed forward creating 4 more inches of interior room and one more inch of cargo room behind the 3rd row seats.

[encore888]

I was hoping that the LX would be a big full-size SUV this time around, but the spyshots and the inside rumors on this thread seem to say the opposite.

There was a debate on the size issue on the LX wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lexus_LX

Technically, the LX is "fullsize" and described as such, specifically in that the interior space/cargo volume is rather large. But it is not the biggest representative of the fullsize category by far. Other "midsize" SUVs such as the Ford Explorer have a longer overall length and wheelbase, but up to 10 cubic feet less interior room and usually 2 less passengers. In that respect the LX seems quite efficient for its size. It has more of a fullsize capability.

However, the Escalade and OX56 all have a good significant size increase in volume, etc. over the LX. Which makes me think, for competitive reasons, they'd want to make the LX bigger, move up the GX slightly in size to accomodate 2 LX positioning, and leave room for the RX and RX L versions for 2008.

I'd think it would help the overall brand image of "we have a full lineup, all sizes" etc. However, a major caveat may be that the ultra-huge size vehicles might have a more difficult marketing case for them...

I am not clear on this, just as I'm not clear on how much L-finesse can do to change the appearance of the venerable LX, or how different it can be from the LC.

[encore888]

Valid points regarding toe off-road capability...maybe the temptation to upsize is tempered by the need to stay true to the LC/LX's legendary offroading capability. That said, I find:

Overall length/wheelbase (in)
Lexus LX 192.5 in 112.2 in
Lexus GX 188.2 in 109.8 in

Std/max passengers + cargo capacity
Lexus LX 8 8 90.4 cu. ft.
Lexus GX 5 8 77.5 cu. ft.

By comparison, the Cadillac Escalade is 202 in long/116 wheelbase for the standard version, Mercedes GL is 200 in long/121 wheelbase....max Escalade cargo 104 cu. ft., max GL cargo 83 cu. ft.

Maybe the GL is closer to the LX model....the LX is less bulky overall, but more than capable inside...