Aftermarket sound system upgrade for mark levinson
09-02-16, 12:27 AM
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Aftermarket sound system upgrade for mark levinson
Hi guys!
I own lx570 2014 with mark levinson.. to tell the truth.. the sound system is quite crappy. It is said that there are 19 speakers!..however, it seems to me that it is just a good marketing stuff in terms of sound quality..
Are there any available upgrades? Of course I don't want to install any huge subwoofer or smth.. just need a better quality..
maybe there are some good combinations?
I own lx570 2014 with mark levinson.. to tell the truth.. the sound system is quite crappy. It is said that there are 19 speakers!..however, it seems to me that it is just a good marketing stuff in terms of sound quality..
Are there any available upgrades? Of course I don't want to install any huge subwoofer or smth.. just need a better quality..
maybe there are some good combinations?
09-02-16, 01:42 AM
#2
Pole Position
I think you will find none. Hard to upgrade a built in system.
I love my ML radio, much better than other vehicles I have owned.
I love my ML radio, much better than other vehicles I have owned.
09-02-16, 07:16 AM
#3
Pole Position
You will not find a better system than Mark Levinson for an LX. In fact, ML is one of the best audiophile systems, period. I've been eyeing their integrated amplifier for my home audio, but @ $12k it's not gonna happen. I mean there's Burmester audio for Porsche...But once you get in the high-end price range, the law of diminishing returns kicks in and it all becomes purely subjective or imaginary
09-02-16, 02:49 PM
#4
I mostly agree with the OP but then again, I am sort of a fanatical audiophile. Yakim is correct about diminishing returns when it comes to audio - that's for sure and I agree that even imaginary stuff starts happening. BUT... and this is a big but, you have wonder just how much "engineering" goes in to a $2,350 Mark Levinson "19 speaker 7.1 system" for the Lexus LX570 (or any Lexus) when it is quite possibly the least expensive product ever created with a Levinson face plate.
09-02-16, 03:02 PM
#5
Pole Position
I mostly agree with the OP but then again, I am sort of a fanatical audiophile. Yakim is correct about diminishing returns when it comes to audio - that's for sure and I agree that even imaginary stuff starts happening. BUT... and this is a big but, you have wonder just how much "engineering" goes in to a $2,350 Mark Levinson "19 speaker 7.1 system" for the Lexus LX570 (or any Lexus) when it is quite possibly the least expensive product ever created with a Levinson face plate.
09-02-16, 04:37 PM
#6
Yeah...LOL... the special relationship is they both make money hand over fist. The Levinson in the LX, while better than most still isn't as good as the name brand suggests...even though it's "just" a Harmon Kardon...but is good enough for people who don't care to stress about the nuance of music playback. The sources people use these days i.e. iPhone analog out which relies on the cheap iPhone DAC, USB out which most likely relies on some kind of cheap DAC stuffed into the ML head unit or Bluetooth streaming which is supposed to support 328Kbps but most people compress their audio files to 128 kbps for max capacity is a significant limiting factor in itself. Also thankfully, Lexus & Levinson engineered a solution to low resolution sources, they put a transport capable of DVD Audio!!! A format which lost to SACD in 2007. Seriously?
Common belief is that the best source would essentially produce the best audio quality so aside from perhaps finding a way to rip (or buy) high resolution audio and figure out how to burn obsolete DVD Audio files to disc, a updated solution would be a higher end DAP like Astell & Kern, Questyle, or even a Pono (if their music store ever starts working again). These have high end DACs and are capable of playing back DSD (SACD) file, as well as various lossless and full uncompressed files in all their splendor. Then all you'd need is a high end 3.5mm phono cable. Audiuoquest a more mainstream brand is they only one I know of who's making these - they aren't even on the Audioquest website. You have to check Crutchfield for a list of 3.5MM Stereo Mini Patch cables ranging in price from $32 to $230 - which is cheap by audiophile standards.
I agree with you Yakim that most systems in general are mostly different flavors or "house sounds" but in truth the house sound of a $12,000 Levinson integrated is not anything like the $2,350 Lexus stereo system. For most people in to high end audio, $12K retail for an integrated amp is a cost saver. They would be consolidating from separate preamp and perhaps monoblock amps thereby saving thousands and thousands of dollars on extra cables, power cords, amp stands & rack space. In general critical audiophiles don't buy equipment based on the engineering, they go for how it sounds and to some, $12K is worth the price.
Burmester in Porsche, yes...but funny that the former Director of Marketing at Porsche is now the CEO of Burmester. Side note I think Burmester can also be found in some Mercedes vehicles these days. Not sure but I think B&W is in Volvo, Maserati and some BMW's.
To me the tonal balance of the Levinson system is middle of the road & unoffensive, perhaps polite, which I understand - Lexus wants to appeal to the masses. And personal taste in audio tends to be unique... you got old timers who need more highs and youngsters who like slammin' bass. Without getting in to my own personal preferences about tonal balance, I would say that a decent (engineered) system shouldn't distort, rattle, resonate or vibrate audibly at reasonable to relatively unreasonable volume levels. In my 2016 LX, I get all that when the volume is set to a higher than normal, perhaps enthusiastic level. Yes... of course, this isn't the Levinson's fault its the folks who make the "cabinets" i.e. the doors that the speakers are mounted to - but to me an engineered sound system includes the associated equipment.
Common belief is that the best source would essentially produce the best audio quality so aside from perhaps finding a way to rip (or buy) high resolution audio and figure out how to burn obsolete DVD Audio files to disc, a updated solution would be a higher end DAP like Astell & Kern, Questyle, or even a Pono (if their music store ever starts working again). These have high end DACs and are capable of playing back DSD (SACD) file, as well as various lossless and full uncompressed files in all their splendor. Then all you'd need is a high end 3.5mm phono cable. Audiuoquest a more mainstream brand is they only one I know of who's making these - they aren't even on the Audioquest website. You have to check Crutchfield for a list of 3.5MM Stereo Mini Patch cables ranging in price from $32 to $230 - which is cheap by audiophile standards.
I agree with you Yakim that most systems in general are mostly different flavors or "house sounds" but in truth the house sound of a $12,000 Levinson integrated is not anything like the $2,350 Lexus stereo system. For most people in to high end audio, $12K retail for an integrated amp is a cost saver. They would be consolidating from separate preamp and perhaps monoblock amps thereby saving thousands and thousands of dollars on extra cables, power cords, amp stands & rack space. In general critical audiophiles don't buy equipment based on the engineering, they go for how it sounds and to some, $12K is worth the price.
Burmester in Porsche, yes...but funny that the former Director of Marketing at Porsche is now the CEO of Burmester. Side note I think Burmester can also be found in some Mercedes vehicles these days. Not sure but I think B&W is in Volvo, Maserati and some BMW's.
To me the tonal balance of the Levinson system is middle of the road & unoffensive, perhaps polite, which I understand - Lexus wants to appeal to the masses. And personal taste in audio tends to be unique... you got old timers who need more highs and youngsters who like slammin' bass. Without getting in to my own personal preferences about tonal balance, I would say that a decent (engineered) system shouldn't distort, rattle, resonate or vibrate audibly at reasonable to relatively unreasonable volume levels. In my 2016 LX, I get all that when the volume is set to a higher than normal, perhaps enthusiastic level. Yes... of course, this isn't the Levinson's fault its the folks who make the "cabinets" i.e. the doors that the speakers are mounted to - but to me an engineered sound system includes the associated equipment.
Last edited by brywhite; 09-02-16 at 04:41 PM.
09-02-16, 04:51 PM
#7
LX is not LS. The noise level in LX is significantly higher than in LS and I usually do not listen ML in my car when not moving. So although I agree that ML in my '16 LX could be better, I am quite happy with it. I think that Lexus should really use a better audio in the new LS. BTW, I am almost sure that ML in SC430 was better than in any other Lexus.
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09-02-16, 06:05 PM
#8
Yeah...LOL... the special relationship is they both make money hand over fist. The Levinson in the LX, while better than most still isn't as good as the name brand suggests...even though it's "just" a Harmon Kardon...but is good enough for people who don't care to stress about the nuance of music playback. The sources people use these days i.e. iPhone analog out which relies on the cheap iPhone DAC, USB out which most likely relies on some kind of cheap DAC stuffed into the ML head unit or Bluetooth streaming which is supposed to support 328Kbps but most people compress their audio files to 128 kbps for max capacity is a significant limiting factor in itself. Also thankfully, Lexus & Levinson engineered a solution to low resolution sources, they put a transport capable of DVD Audio!!! A format which lost to SACD in 2007. Seriously?
Common belief is that the best source would essentially produce the best audio quality so aside from perhaps finding a way to rip (or buy) high resolution audio and figure out how to burn obsolete DVD Audio files to disc, a updated solution would be a higher end DAP like Astell & Kern, Questyle, or even a Pono (if their music store ever starts working again). These have high end DACs and are capable of playing back DSD (SACD) file, as well as various lossless and full uncompressed files in all their splendor. Then all you'd need is a high end 3.5mm phono cable. Audiuoquest a more mainstream brand is they only one I know of who's making these - they aren't even on the Audioquest website. You have to check Crutchfield for a list of 3.5MM Stereo Mini Patch cables ranging in price from $32 to $230 - which is cheap by audiophile standards.
I agree with you Yakim that most systems in general are mostly different flavors or "house sounds" but in truth the house sound of a $12,000 Levinson integrated is not anything like the $2,350 Lexus stereo system. For most people in to high end audio, $12K retail for an integrated amp is a cost saver. They would be consolidating from separate preamp and perhaps monoblock amps thereby saving thousands and thousands of dollars on extra cables, power cords, amp stands & rack space. In general critical audiophiles don't buy equipment based on the engineering, they go for how it sounds and to some, $12K is worth the price.
Burmester in Porsche, yes...but funny that the former Director of Marketing at Porsche is now the CEO of Burmester. Side note I think Burmester can also be found in some Mercedes vehicles these days. Not sure but I think B&W is in Volvo, Maserati and some BMW's.
To me the tonal balance of the Levinson system is middle of the road & unoffensive, perhaps polite, which I understand - Lexus wants to appeal to the masses. And personal taste in audio tends to be unique... you got old timers who need more highs and youngsters who like slammin' bass. Without getting in to my own personal preferences about tonal balance, I would say that a decent (engineered) system shouldn't distort, rattle, resonate or vibrate audibly at reasonable to relatively unreasonable volume levels. In my 2016 LX, I get all that when the volume is set to a higher than normal, perhaps enthusiastic level. Yes... of course, this isn't the Levinson's fault its the folks who make the "cabinets" i.e. the doors that the speakers are mounted to - but to me an engineered sound system includes the associated equipment.
Common belief is that the best source would essentially produce the best audio quality so aside from perhaps finding a way to rip (or buy) high resolution audio and figure out how to burn obsolete DVD Audio files to disc, a updated solution would be a higher end DAP like Astell & Kern, Questyle, or even a Pono (if their music store ever starts working again). These have high end DACs and are capable of playing back DSD (SACD) file, as well as various lossless and full uncompressed files in all their splendor. Then all you'd need is a high end 3.5mm phono cable. Audiuoquest a more mainstream brand is they only one I know of who's making these - they aren't even on the Audioquest website. You have to check Crutchfield for a list of 3.5MM Stereo Mini Patch cables ranging in price from $32 to $230 - which is cheap by audiophile standards.
I agree with you Yakim that most systems in general are mostly different flavors or "house sounds" but in truth the house sound of a $12,000 Levinson integrated is not anything like the $2,350 Lexus stereo system. For most people in to high end audio, $12K retail for an integrated amp is a cost saver. They would be consolidating from separate preamp and perhaps monoblock amps thereby saving thousands and thousands of dollars on extra cables, power cords, amp stands & rack space. In general critical audiophiles don't buy equipment based on the engineering, they go for how it sounds and to some, $12K is worth the price.
Burmester in Porsche, yes...but funny that the former Director of Marketing at Porsche is now the CEO of Burmester. Side note I think Burmester can also be found in some Mercedes vehicles these days. Not sure but I think B&W is in Volvo, Maserati and some BMW's.
To me the tonal balance of the Levinson system is middle of the road & unoffensive, perhaps polite, which I understand - Lexus wants to appeal to the masses. And personal taste in audio tends to be unique... you got old timers who need more highs and youngsters who like slammin' bass. Without getting in to my own personal preferences about tonal balance, I would say that a decent (engineered) system shouldn't distort, rattle, resonate or vibrate audibly at reasonable to relatively unreasonable volume levels. In my 2016 LX, I get all that when the volume is set to a higher than normal, perhaps enthusiastic level. Yes... of course, this isn't the Levinson's fault its the folks who make the "cabinets" i.e. the doors that the speakers are mounted to - but to me an engineered sound system includes the associated equipment.
On this vehicle, with Android, you have to use the 3.5mm minijack. iOS devices support digital playback.
Also of note, Toyota is delaying implementation of Carplay and Android Auto, still preferring to use their own proprietary system for current 2017 models and maintain control of the in-car electronics for now.
I have used FLAC for years for its superior quality over MP3 compression. FLAC audio files are large in size (40+ megabytes per song) and uncompressed for identical quality to the CD they were transferred from.
I have commissioned an old iPhone 5 loaded with the free FLAC player app, which transfers audio digitally over the lightning connection.
https://thepiratebay.org/search/flac/0/99/0
Last edited by Chocolate; 09-02-16 at 08:33 PM.
09-03-16, 03:01 AM
#9
Pole Position
Back to the OP's question on upgrading the ML system. There are none without a major redo and the OP did not want that big boom box in the back seat.
09-03-16, 09:37 AM
#10
Mark levinson system is good enough in my 2016 LX 570 . If your expectation is high or you are an audiophile, there are tons of different aftermarket ones out there . You might want to check car audio installers in your local area for their suggestions. Some youngsters install the systems that would cost more than their cars, it is not worth it.
09-03-16, 07:55 PM
#11
Pole Position
Yeah, I just don't see how being an audiophile applies to your car/truck/whatever. What's missing? Bass, treble, ambiance? When you factor in road noise, open window/sunroof...also compressed audio formats, what you need is the rudimentary basics needed to enjoy the ride. Leave the critical listening for your in-home private listening room. All this is coming from a recovering Audiogon addict who at some point had a $100k in-home audio system with components from Esoteric (it was precise but dry/clinical) and $2k a piece cables from now defunct Virtual Dynamics(fat and bass-rich hoses)...now happily settled in with Japan-made Marantz int-amp and some Proacs
Last edited by yakim; 09-03-16 at 08:46 PM.
09-04-16, 03:00 PM
#12
Pole Position
Haha, this is funny.
I agree with you. The ML in my Lexus vehicles are good enough for in car use. Everything is relative. For example, I would not want to get stuck for more than a couple of days in a Prius base sound.
At the end of the day, it's all good. Moderation is the key. Don't go overboard.
I agree with you. The ML in my Lexus vehicles are good enough for in car use. Everything is relative. For example, I would not want to get stuck for more than a couple of days in a Prius base sound.
At the end of the day, it's all good. Moderation is the key. Don't go overboard.
Yeah, I just don't see how being an audiophile applies to your car/truck/whatever. What's missing? Bass, treble, ambiance? When you factor in road noise, open window/sunroof...also compressed audio formats, what you need is the rudimentary basics needed to enjoy the ride. Leave the critical listening for your in-home private listening room. All this is coming from a recovering Audiogon addict who at some point had a $100k in-home audio system with components from Esoteric (it was precise but dry/clinical) and $2k a piece cables from now defunct Virtual Dynamics(fat and bass-rich hoses)...now happily settled in with Japan-made Marantz int-amp and some Proacs
09-07-16, 10:53 AM
#13
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Mark Levinson Audio Upgrades
The in car systems of many brands to some, sound deficient no matter the audio brand partner. The car manufacturers make it nearly impossible to replace an entire system. Many times the in car system needs further tuning & not additional or new hardware, especially the ML System. I have several friends who have installed the JL Audio TWK Processor, and the transformation of their stock system was stunning. They too had gone the route of speaker upgrades and it didn't result in a huge improvement. You may want to inquire with a local mobile audio shop in you're area that is a JL Audio Dealer. They can advise you and explain what it can do for your LX, maybe they have a demo for you. Mine will be installed with my LX soon...Good Luck.
Link: http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-pro...-system-tuning
Link: http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-pro...-system-tuning
Last edited by glennjamin; 09-07-16 at 10:56 AM. Reason: additional info
09-07-16, 12:35 PM
#14
Pole Position
The in car systems of many brands to some, sound deficient no matter the audio brand partner. The car manufacturers make it nearly impossible to replace an entire system. Many times the in car system needs further tuning & not additional or new hardware, especially the ML System. I have several friends who have installed the JL Audio TWK Processor, and the transformation of their stock system was stunning. They too had gone the route of speaker upgrades and it didn't result in a huge improvement. You may want to inquire with a local mobile audio shop in you're area that is a JL Audio Dealer. They can advise you and explain what it can do for your LX, maybe they have a demo for you. Mine will be installed with my LX soon...Good Luck.
Link: http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-pro...-system-tuning
Link: http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-pro...-system-tuning
09-07-16, 02:06 PM
#15
I've been investigating the best solution for the LX and Levinson system and came across a recommendation for an Audison Bit Ten D car processor. Glennjamin thank you for your reply and info on the JLaudio processor. So far, on the outside it looks like the processor is the way to go. But... For what it's worth, the 19 speaker system in the LX consists of seven 4" midrange drivers, seven 1" tweeters, four 6x9 speakers in each door panel as well as an approximately 10" subwoofer all powered by a single 450 watt DSP (digital signal processing) amp "to balance and enhance tonal blending".
From: http://www.marklevinson.com/lexus-lx.html
I have no idea where the JLAudio or Audison processors want the fit in the audio chain but since the Levinson Amplifier has a built in Digital Signal Processor, the Audison/JLAudio processor solution may require the use of aftermarket amplification. Just guessing.
I have a few calls in to a couple car audio dealers and will let you all know what I find out.
From: http://www.marklevinson.com/lexus-lx.html
I have no idea where the JLAudio or Audison processors want the fit in the audio chain but since the Levinson Amplifier has a built in Digital Signal Processor, the Audison/JLAudio processor solution may require the use of aftermarket amplification. Just guessing.
I have a few calls in to a couple car audio dealers and will let you all know what I find out.