CASANOVA

Has anyone took this vehicle off road and any feedback on its capabilities?

It seems like the Land Cruiser and the LX570 has the same off road feature other than the LX is more luxurious interior and more expensive.

spwolf

best in the world comes to mind...

tigmd99

How did you come to THIS lofty conclusion?! I can name a few vehicles that will blow the doors off the LX570/TLC off-road.

The Land Cruiser has one advantage over LX570...KDSS suspension is valuable off-road. The electronic X-linked suspension on the LX570 is beneficial ON-ROAD only.

However, the LX570 does come with electronic air suspension to raise it up and down, which the Land Cruiser does not have. This does help off-road because the current LX570 and TLC are low to the ground.

It is unfortunate that Toyota/Lexus has shorted Land Cruiser owner by not offering air suspension on the TLC. The previous gen TLC came with air suspension as an option in 2006.

Toyota is advertising Land Cruiser as the "off-roader" between the two and the LX as the "luxury cruiser". This explain why it gave TLC the KDSS suspension and the LX the X-linked suspension. But Toyota should have given the TLC the air suspension to complete it's off-road capability. In the end, i do not think that off-road capability is the main focus of the TLC/LX...that has fallen on the shoulder of the FJ Cruiser.

CASANOVA

Thanks for the great info and don't get me wrong they are both great vehicles. I am just looking for info on how to justify the price they are asking for these vehicles.

CACressida

iTrader: (1)

Well, obviously Toyota did think about these vehicles going offroad, and thats whey they stiffened an already stiff platform, added more subframes and tucked everything above the frame rails. Also, the new LC has alot more wheel travel than the previous one and has alot more offroad goodies than the previous one.

Comming from a FJ-Cruiser owner, I have wheeled the LandCruiser 100s, and in my opinion, the big bad heavy LandCruiser is just soo much more fun and easy to offroad. And if anything, the LandCruiser is the best in its class when it comes to offroading.

tigmd99

CAC,

Unlike your FJ, the previous TLC (series 100) had most components tucked up to frame rail height, just like the new version. Nothing new there. While the new one has more off-road goodies, it is also SIGNIFICANTLY lower and has worst approach, breakover, and departure angles. And unlike the 2006 TLC, the new TLC does not even have air suspension to compensate for this new lowered height/clearance.

The LX570 does have the air suspension, but it does not have the KDSS which increases wheel travel.

So, you pick your deficiency...do you want good wheel travel, but crappy clearance...OR do you want ordinary wheel travel, but good clearance??

Unfortunately, i think that Toyota did not do any favors by leaving out the much needed air suspension in their ultra-highend "off-road ready" Land Cruiser.

Again, what makes you think that it's the best in it's class when the G500 has 100% mechanical lockers all around, better clearances, smaller, beefy solid axles, beefy overbuilt frame & suspension, and a deep military heritage?? The TLC/LX are good off-road vehicles, but i would not call them class-leading.

spwolf

there were previews in 4x4 mags, that called crawl control better than any professional offroad driver - coming from professional off road drivers.

reason they dropped air suspension for LC is because it can not meet durability requirements for day after day hard driving on bad roads.

People in many parts of the world need good off road vehices for daily tasks, not to have fun on some built up trails. This is where LC shines, and G500 is stone age monster.

tigmd99

Crawl control also can only operate continuously for 7-12 minutes before ATRAC shuts down to prevent overheating. Yeah, that's hardcore stuff man! (Hint: lockers don't have this issue.)

Crawl control is simply the next step on ATRAC...it is no substitute for LOCKERS. Before CC, ATRAC's main weakness was slow speed traction because there was not enough wheelspin to activate ATRAC. So, CC is a good advancement in this regard...it allows ATRAC to aggressively intervene at slow speed automatically. It's kinda like the automatic version of A-TRAC on the FJ CRuiser. CC is an excellent system in that it is idiot-proof for beginners.

However, unlike ATRAC, lockers do not have this issue with slow speed traction. And it's not hard to keep speed slow while off-roading...if you have off-roaded, then you would know this.

And what good is CC when you cannot get over a rock or ditch due to poor angles (approach, breakover, departure)??

G500 may be stoneage, but it is still pretty current according to military standards, as is seen recently with the Austrailian army buying G-wagens. And let's not forget...my G500 is SMALLER than the FJ Cruiser & 4runner, yet it weighs MORE than the previous Land Cruiser and within 100-200 lbs of the NEW gigantic Land Cruiser. There is no substitute for stoneage overbuilt engineering.

tigmd99

Oh yeah, IMHO, the best off-roader from a showroom floor is the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.

CACressida

iTrader: (1)

But now we got a problem here. We bring in the G500. Wich no doubt is the only Mercedes I will ever respect. Good looks, good power, good package. G500 is an awesome machine, but the G500 isn't in the same class as a LandCruiser. A LandCruiser is a full size SUV that seats 8, and in some countries, 9 passengers. The G500 would fight vehicles like the Lexus GX470 and the Toyota 4Runner respectively.

Ofcourse for 100,000 dollars, the Mercedes G500 is an awesome vehicle I'd own if i was filthy rich, but I can't justify a vehicle that can only seat 4 passengers and a driver with soso instruments like the hvac and speedo gauges for example, and a really big engine with triple locks. In otherwords, other than that huge engine and the triple locks and my favorite utilitarian styling, theres really nothing special about it.

For alot less money than that, I can buy a new GX470, do a SAS, install front and rear ARB lockers, a Prado ARB winch bumper, a big lift, huge tires and plenty more junk and have the ultimate luxury expedition vehicle with the ultimate Toyota reliability.

Or, for the money, a Rubicon his and hers, one black and one pink and a GX470 to get the groceries lol. It's all about how you want to spend your money. And we all know that there are products on the market that offere more luxury than the G500, but again, the G500 will always be my favorite German vehicle period.

spwolf

there is an difference between for-fun offroading and having tough suv that can handle everything thrown at it, with luxury.

for you, offroading is going over rocks at impossible angles.

For people buying 99% of LC around the world, it is necessity, and has nothing to do with rock crawling.

And besides, for countries that need it, you can buy off road packages for LC that have much better approach/departure angles due to modified bumpers. This was true for LC 100 and 120, so I am pretty sure it will be true for 200 as well.

Thats why LC100/120 sell only tiny bit in USA, and 200,000+ around the world.

LC has not gone soft suddenly - if anything, it seems they opted to make it even more durable than before.

But it is not Wrangler Rubicon or G500 competitior - it moved away from that long, long time ago.

I think fourwheeler artice sums it up nicely:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests...iew/index.html

I will be testing one in 2 weeks with new V8 diesel, and we will have G500, GL and few other 4x4's to compare.

tigmd99

CAC,

G500 is indeed in the same class as TLC/LX because of it's price. Range Rover is a 5-seater too...is it not in the same class as TLC?? Should we only compare Caddy Escalades and Lincoln Navigators with TLC because it seats 7-8?? Or should we compare my Toyota Sienna with TLC simply because of it's seat arrangements?? In addition, the 4runner Ltd/GX470 seats 7, does it not???

The G500 MSRP is in the $80K range. In 2004, it was around $78K...i got it for $72K. I agree with you that the instrumentation is so-so, but i don't usually buy cars based on their speedometer! But, i agree with you that the interior design of the G is nowhere close to the LX570...although i would argue that the MATERIALS used in the G is on-par with the new TLC (i have not seen LX upclose yet to comment).

Well, the G500, beyond engine and triple locks, also has military roots and overbuilt frame and suspension. I don't even think that there is any car on the road today that has retained the SAME design and build for as long as the g-wagen...over 28 years and counting! There has NEVER been a "redesign" of the G since inception!

Again, my G500 is smaller dimensionally than your FJ, yet it weighs over 700-800 lbs more! (Oh yeah, it also can carry as much cargo as a 4runner.)

With you modifying a GX470, don't you think that your Toyota reliability will be compromised just a tad??? Remember, the FJ Cruiser has seen it's share of body cracks/rips and blown rear axle...and you think that all that heavy aftermarket stuff will go well???? And we're not even talking about labor mistakes, wrong welding, poor aftermarket design, etc..

IMHO, when a new vehicle takes 5-8 years to design, i would not trust such a major redesign of the front suspension (as when you SAS) by an aftermarket company on a limited budget. Just my view.

tigmd99

I agree with most of what you said...it's just that you mentioned earlier that the LX is the "best in the world" in off-roading capability and i disagree with you. The TLC/LX may be the best compromise between off-road capability and luxury, but as a pure off-roader, i would not rank it as the best.

Remember, it was a lot easier to design aftermarket bumpers with the previous TLCs. The new TLC/LX570s have integrated bumpers which makes it nearly impossible to design a decent looking aftermarket bumper.

CACressida

iTrader: (1)

Also, forgot to ad that the Current LX/LC may have less clearance than the 100 series LC, but the 60 and 80 series wagons also have lower ground clearance and nothing has stopped them.

Price range, the G500 is above the LC and on par with the LX. But demensions, the you can fit a G500 inside the cargo floor of a LandCruiser joking. Also, the TLC is 3tons. A heavy behemoth.

The rips in the body of the inner fenders of the FJ in my opinion come from lack of reinforcements and very hard abuse. I wheel my FJ almost every other weekend and my inner fenders are intact. Also, the diff issue, I've seen alot of vehicle with blow differentials. I blame on driver error. So far I've blown the front diff on my 02 4Runner, driver error. I think blowing a diff offroad is totally avoidable.

Going aftermarket doesn't mean that everything is all new design. With a SAS, you get the traditional solid front axle with sloppy onroad handling and excellent offroadablility

AKoch

G is a very good vehicle, but it has its limitations. And its weight works against it, off-road as well. Not going too deep into this conversation - it is awesome that there are DIFFERENT vehicles on the market, otherwise this would be really boring. This is coming from an ex G-onwer: I had it for quite a few years, and I also owned a TLC80, LX470. I did not buy the G again, but I bought the LX after the TLC80, and I bought the LX again to refresh it. I am not sure I want to buy the LX570 or TLC200 though, I actually would consider a G or something else prior to going 200.