spwolf

professional driver that races in WRC claimed that it is due turbo diesels power delivery - due to nature of the engine (and every diesel is like that), power delivery is not smooth. It kicks in at 1.6k rpm and goes to 3.6k with maximum torque - it is much easier to balance with V8 petrol.

I figure he might know what he is talking about, being professional race driver and all that mumbo jumbo :-).

spwolf

You can see it on updated V8 site in the Europe:
http://www.toyota-europe.com/cars/ne...-v8/specs.aspx

But keep in mind that even AHC version has 24 degree angle when suspension is in up position, 20 degree refference is for normal position of AHC.

tigmd99

So, there are two KDSS suspension system for TLC200?? Or, are you saying that KDSS increases these angles?? If the latter, then i think that you're wrong. KDSS does NOT increase clearances. My guess is that the website that you linked are confused.

tigmd99

This is what i suspect. The air suspension on the LX570 does indeed improve clearances...better than TLC. I would suspect that TLC has 20 degree departure angle, which is where LX570 is in the normal height mode.

Think of it this way...i do NOT think that the CV joints in the IFS will like being in the "HIGH" mode all day long, as you proposed with the TLC having the same height as the LX570 in HIGH mode. There is a reason why the HIGH mode is only a temporary (off-road) setting.

tigmd99

The above is consistent with Lexus USA website: http://www.lexus.com/models/LX/detai...fications.html

Scroll down...approach/departure = 31/23 (high) 29/20 (normal)

So, i think that the YOUR linked website is confused in it's nomenclature. KDSS is 29/20 (same as TLC USA), while AHC is 31/23 (LX).

spwolf

also, LC200 and LX have been developed as true SUV's from start on. Toyota knows that market is getting smaller but they did not want to mess with heritage. Body rigidness is 40% stiffer due to thicker body frame.

LC100 was very safe - and LC200 was even more enchanced in that regards - 14 airbags total (including side for 3rd row) + crash zones at the back as well as front...


Now the cool part is how well ATRAC and multi-terrain ABS works. A-TRAC is now faster than ever and can block any wheel at any time from spinning. This actually worked really well in real life.

Multi-ABS is really cool - it automatically senses (no switches!) what type of surface are driving on, and allows your tires to be locked for longer periods of time.... Usual ABS allows between 10% and 30% wheel lock, MultiT-ABS allows up to 70%.

Our tests in gravel showed it worked really, really well. Sand for instance is best example, and with it on LC200 manages to stop in 32m from 70kmh vs 44m for the same car with regular ABS.

spwolf

You dont seem to like to listen, do you?

From the official European website:
Departure angle (°) 20 (4WD AHC & AVS) / 24 (KDSS) 20 (4WD AHC & AVS) / 24 (KDSS) .

This is what I have been told from Toyota engineers. But maybe you know better? :-)

spwolf

p.s. there are two suspensions for LC200 in the world - one with KDSS and one with AHC. AHC versions do not have KDSS system. KDSS system is more advanced (a lot) than one in GX, it actually links front and back wheels. In the US, LX gets AHC version and LC gets KDSS version. In the Europe and Aussie you can get LC200 with both.

There are 4 different engines, 3 different transmissons, 4 different interior seating variations around the world.

And yeah, Toyota does not have air suspensions, they are hydraulic... people use "air" to explain them easier, but system uses hydraulic oil actually.

ggebhardt

Please do not take this wrong, but most who buy the 570 do not "need" to justify the price. I have done some off road with my 570. The OEM tires would be the limiting factor as the hardware IS the best.

tigmd99

A few things:
- Multi-ABS was also present on the previous TLC100. I can assure you that no-ABS in some off-road situation is still ideal. The new Jeep Rubicon allows you to turn OFF ABS while off-roading, as does my G. So, you can lock up 100% of the time.

- So, you found one website that supports your view, while i have found 2 websites on two different continents (!!) showing what we all have seen. And you tell me that i am not listening??!!

- Your website is clearly confused. Explain to me how KDSS increases clearances and angles. I am anxiously awaiting your explanation.

- Is it possible that your linked website is a mistake??

tigmd99

Huh?! The GX's KDSS does indeed linked front and rear axles. I assume that you're a Lexus salesman...maybe you need to readup on your kit: http://www.lexus.com/models/GX/featu...on_system.html

I doubt that you can get BOTH suspension in ONE TLC anywhere in the world. If you care to read up on the LX570's AHC system, then you will see that it is NOT the same AHC system as last year...it now has a X-cross-linking system (similar to XREAS on 4runners). XREAS and KDSS canNOT co-exist in the same system because it can work against each other in some situations. I think that you need to learn the concepts of each before declaring that i am wrong.

tigmd99

The link is interesting. Apparently, you canNOT get KDSS on the petrol engine TLC (4.7L V8). You can only get on diesel.

Diesel cannot get Crawl Control either.

So, it seems to me that the diesel TLC is similar to US TLC...it's more basic, while the petrol TLC (either Lux or Standard) get AHC, similar to US LX570. So, again, i am not surprise at all.

And finally, if you look at the specs, then you will see that it lists the specs of approach/departure angles SEPARATELY for AHC & AVS...and...then for KDSS. You do NOT see AHC & AVS & KDSS.

Thus, i still stand by my original statement...you canNOT have both KDSS and AHC/AVS on the same vehicle.

spwolf

I are talking about facts, not views.

As I said before, it is either KDSS or AHC.

Petrol and Diesels have same equipment in Europe except for Crawl control, since computer can not smoothly control diesel engine at very low rpm needed for 1-3-5kmh.

It is not an "link". It is official Toyota website for the Europe. As seen there, you can have both engines with KDSS or AHC.

This quote is from official Toyota website refferenced above.

tigmd99

This is not what you said earlier:

If you mean that the Land Cruiser can have either one, then isn't that obvious?! I never said otherwise.

And if you think that AHC is lower than a KDSS vehicle, then i would love to hear your explanation since the KDSS vehicle does not have air suspension.

(And yes, by air suspension, it is a general term. I am fully aware that it is hydraulic.)

tigmd99

Oh yeah, tell me how the KDSS system on the TLC is "move advance (a lot)" than the GX's system. What did they tell you?? Apparently, you do not know much about the GX system to even make a comparison in the first place. So, i am interested to hear your explanation. If the GX KDSS is not front-rear linked, then how in the hell does it work at all?!!

IMHO, if you're a salesman, then i highly encourage you to read up and fully understand the system before talking to your customers...because as a Lexus neophyte, i seem to know more about the Lexus vehicles than you. It is a sad state when the customer knows more than the salesman.