rcf8000

One of the few complaints I have about my new LX470 is the need for almost continuous steering corrections when driving down a straight road. Is this normal? If not, does anyone out there know what can be done about it?

wenger828

our LX does that, i am pretty sure the cause of it is mis-alignment. get the tires aligned and it should be alright.

rcf8000

I took my LX to the dealer today and had them check out the steering. They said that the alignment was "perfect" and that the LX "will not track as well as some other vehicles" due to the variable ratio steering, the wide tires, and the "off road suspension". I guess I might as well get used to it.

Bobhgd

(Warning: Below are a few technical alignment terms and details. Old auto mechanics alignment expertise coming out here...)

The LX should track as well or bettter than any other vehicle. The line from the dealer saying it won't track as well "...due to the variable ratio steering, the wide tires, and the "off road suspension"", is a load of BS.

Lexus wouldn't intentionally build a vehicle that wanders. It's not that difficult to build a vehicle that tracks straight, regardless of variable-ratio steering, tire size, suspension design.

If the tires, brakes, and other suspension aspects are ok, then the problem usually involves fine tuning the front end alignment settings. My experience with several new vehicles including the LX is that apparently, front end alignment is an area where most factory builds fall short of ideal. (I also saw why, when I worked in a major automotive plant in the SE USA '92-97. The alignment is done in a pit with vehicles passing at about 1.5 minutes per vehicle. How finely can they adjust alignment at that rate? They sure don't road-test most of the vehicles as required to fine-tune the alignment. Ha.)

My 99 LX470 was (of course) not well-aligned from the factory. It too, would not track properly, and also had a significant pull to the left.

It took several trips to the dealer, and (of course) finally my directions to them on the correct settings, to fix the problem.

Assuming there are not other problems (tires, brakes, frame/rear end alignment, bearings, etc.) that are causing the problem, then tracking can usually be corrected by the following front end settings:

- More positive caster (postive degrees of caster)
- Slightly more positive caster on the right side vs. the left side
- More positive camber - but not too much, only very slight positive camber, max about 1 degree (positive degrees of camber)

(Don't confuse caster with camber.)

Of the 2 above, caster will have the greatest affect on improving the tracking. More positive caster leads to a greater natural tendency to track straight.

To counter the tendency of the vehicle to pull to the right (due to the crown of the road), caster may be set with greater positive degrees on the right side, vs. the left side. This will cause a natural counteraction to the right-sloping road crown that otherwise causes the vehicle to pull to the right.

Another way to effect a small influence on right/left pull is the set the camber to slightly more positive on the left side, to counter the natural pull to the right on crowned roads.

A typical setting:

Left: caster 2.5 degrees, camber 0.5 degree
Right: caster 3.5 degrees, camber 0.2 degree

(Varies by vehicle)

Alignment is something of an art, and it usually takes more than one try on the alignment rack & subsequent road test, to get it just right. Consequently, most mechanics (they're called "Technicians" nowadays) don't do a very good job at it. They don't get paid extra for the extra time and trouble of tweaking the settings and repeatedly road-testing the vehicle until it is dialed in, so what do you expect?

Also, sometimes the factory specs are not quite adequate for a particular vehicle, due to build variances in the overall vehicle. It may be necessary to set caster to 0.5 degree higher on the right side than the upper end of the specs, for example, to completely cure a rightward pull. Etc., etc. Mechanics may not be comfortable setting things outside specs, however small the difference, because doing so requires a little gumption and skill-derived independent thinking, and let's face it - mechanics are not paid enough for a great deal of this.

As stated, I've bought several new vehicles that required repeated trips to the dealer to correct the alignment. It is a common problem, and finding an excellent mechanic who will correct it without any fuss or repeat trips is rare. Don't accept excuses - it CAN be corrected.

If the vehicle doesn't track straight, without pulling to the right or left, then don't accept the dealers excuses. Especially with a $70k vehicle with a stated "Passion for Perfection" like the Lexus. (It used to be "Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection", when I bought my '99 LX470. That was my response to the dealer BS about the alignment - "'Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection', remember?" )

I got the problem fixed with my LX470, just like I got it fixed with much cheaper (and more cheaply made) vehicles, with persistence at the dealer.

Good luck.

rcf8000

Very interesting. Thanks for your info. Next time I'm at the dealer for service I'll bring up the subject again.

neilco123

I am having problem with rear alignment. Left rear is -0.21 camber and -0.33toe. Right rear is -0.41camber and -1.22 toe. I have been told that there are no adjustments for back. There is no evidence of accidents As you can imagine tires are getting chewed up pretty quickly on inside. Any suggestions before I have to put whole new rear axle and assembly on vechicle.

V8_Fan

My 03 LX tracks straight, requires virtually no corrections, and it has the variable gear ratio steering. If I let go of the wheel, it'll track straight even at full freeway speed. There are no alignments for the rear axle. The rear axle is a live axle, not independent suspension. Since your vehicle is new, I suspect you have those problematic, junky Dunlop tires? If the vehicle tracks straight when on a flat, smooth road and the steering wheel is centered, I would suspect the tires. FYI, I'm running Bridgestone HT's. The Dunlops are pretty much the worst First World tires one can have.

202knight

My vehicle has 160k miles and has over time developed negative camber on the front axle.
This does not impact tire wear (still have 1/3 even tread depth on michelins with 60k), but I am told it is the cause of steering wander.
Other steering alignment readings are within spec. Rod ends (4), damper, shocks, stabilizer links/bushings, arm bushings have all been replaced. Solid axle does not have any visible factory adjustments (or damage) for caster/camber, only toe.
Dealer states that only fix is full replacement of "aging/sagging" front axle housing. (egads...$$$)
Does anyone have other options that are more cost effective or incremental?
If you consider a salvage yard replacement axle, how can you tell if it' will be ok before purchasing?
Any information would be appreciated.

V8_Fan

When was the last time you replaced the little roller bearings in the steering knuckle assembly? (the ones you access after pulling the birfield joints). Those should be replaced when you do a full bearing repack (maybe every 60K mi depending how you drive). I don't see how replacing the axle housing has anything to do with it. Maybe replacing the birfield joints is what they mean?

V8_Fan

This is not normal. The only time I've ever had this happen in any car I've driven was a new Ford Focus sport version rental w/ Kumbo tires. If the road wasn't perfectly smooth and, say, the left front wheel hit a small imperfection, the vehicle would veer to the right and vice-versa...very dangerous. I suspect it was the tires. The LX drives identically in steering feel to a '06 Toyota 4runner...very forgiving steering. I would suspect the tires, or try swapping the front left and right tires if they are older tires. Use a reputable brand of tire like Michelin, Bridgestone, or BFG, not Dunlop/Kumbo/Big-O/Cooper, etc.

202knight

Update to original post...A year has passed and 7500 miles and several items have been done...Tried to implement several recommendations....Replaced tires with new factory spec Michelins, and full front axle refresh (new knuckle bearings, spindle bushings and all seals).

Original bearings were very loose, i.e., non existent preload. Top bearings did show dry impact wear in outer races. Shims reduced from 1.3 mm to .5 mm, which brought preload of new bearings to within spec. Outer axle birfield joints showed some wear and were swapped side to side, per recommendations from another post.

Results: quieter, smoother driveline. Steering feel is more resistant to road changes. Steering wander decreased, but not eliminated.

Note on front axle refresh....I was very apprehensive about tackling this job...several posts made it sound quite difficult for a DIYer...however, aside from the time spent cleaning parts (few hours every day for full week, many cans of brake cleaner, full bag of shop towels, and dirt/grease everywhere) the actual dissassembly and reassembly was not very difficult at all. Took about 6 lbs of fresh grease (dealer recommended valvoline synthetic). No need to use a hammer, except to lightly tap on the cone washers during removal.

Further comments would be appreciated. Thanks

diagtime

is your LX 2003 and up. VGRS unfortunately creates this condition. makes the steering ratio very high. what you're experiencing is probably normal.

202knight

Apologize for not including my original post (included below)....It is an LX450.


1996 lx450 steering wander - negative camber
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My vehicle has 160k miles and has over time developed negative camber on the front axle.
This does not impact tire wear (still have 1/3 even tread depth on michelins with 60k), but I am told it is the cause of steering wander.
Other steering alignment readings are within spec. Rod ends (4), damper, shocks, stabilizer links/bushings, arm bushings have all been replaced. Solid axle does not have any visible factory adjustments (or damage) for caster/camber, only toe.
Dealer states that only fix is full replacement of "aging/sagging" front axle housing. (egads...$$$)
Does anyone have other options that are more cost effective or incremental?
If you consider a salvage yard replacement axle, how can you tell if it' will be ok before purchasing?
Any information would be appreciated.

diagtime

negative camber will not cause a steering wander. I'd be looking more at the rear axle trailing arm bushings (or whatever they want to call them). Play in the rear arms can cause a downright scary wandering steering condition.

Problems up front can obviously also cause these problems......but it seems you've replaced most of the stuff up front.

V8_Fan

No, abnormal. You should be able to let go of the steering wheel on a relatively flat (laterally) road and it should track straight and require no corrections. Ditto for the LS, RX, and ES. The only Lexus vehicles that I've driven that require attention are the GS and IS...pretty sensitive steering. Did you have a Lexus dealer do the alignment? On my old Toyota truck, a tire shop struggled to get the alignment correct (required constant corrections), but after bringing to my local Toyota dealer, they got it right on the first attempt. They normally correct more (caster?) on the right front wheel to compensate for the slope of the road (usually, the left side is higher for drainage).

And no, VGRS doesn't make it normal. VGRS only makes the steering sensitive at very slow speeds. If it were sensitive at high speeds, it would have called numerous crashes and have been recalled by the NHTSA. Ditto for the AHC. It stiffens at higher speed so even if you're in soft and take a freeway ramp at 60, the rig won't flip over. The specs/design philosophy are all described in the big factory manual.