Fixed my hesitation upon acceleration problem
06-20-15, 03:28 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Fixed my hesitation upon acceleration problem
It was the fuel. It was as simple as that for me.
I had been experiencing a hesitation when going from a cruising speed...to WOT (wide open throttle) situations. The car would kind of just hang there for a couple of seconds, not really going anywhere. This situation was a bit - I wouldn't call it scary - but I would call it something I needed to be concerned/mindful of when pulling into traffic or switching lanes on a highway, etc....it made you have to take into account how much more space you'd need to do such a maneuver.
Well the problem is gone, it was the fuel. And it was my own fault. I was buying Super one week, then supplementing mid grade the next...mixing the two and lowing the octane level. Plus I was buying the gas at a station that was cheap. My logic was that I drive 600 miles a week...I'm trying to save a few bucks, etc...the guy I bought the car off of said he was doing the same thing with the fuel (and he's a Lexus tech)...and for the most part I didn't notice much of anything in loss of fuel mileage, etc. The hesitation wasn't something that really bothered me because I usually don't find myself in situations where I have to mash the gas pedal into the floor, but I did want to know why the car was acting like that. After reading through a bunch of threads I came upon one post that said most of the time it's the fuel, but there is a reprogramming procedure as well. For me it was the fuel. I know others have solved an entirely different problem with the quality of their oil (TGMO).
So if you're going with a lesser grade of fuel...yes your miles per gallon won't really change...and no you won't be able to tell much of a difference...but don't be surprised if your car doesn't want to move in hard acceleration situations for a spell (I imagine it's the knock sensors kicking in).
I had been experiencing a hesitation when going from a cruising speed...to WOT (wide open throttle) situations. The car would kind of just hang there for a couple of seconds, not really going anywhere. This situation was a bit - I wouldn't call it scary - but I would call it something I needed to be concerned/mindful of when pulling into traffic or switching lanes on a highway, etc....it made you have to take into account how much more space you'd need to do such a maneuver.
Well the problem is gone, it was the fuel. And it was my own fault. I was buying Super one week, then supplementing mid grade the next...mixing the two and lowing the octane level. Plus I was buying the gas at a station that was cheap. My logic was that I drive 600 miles a week...I'm trying to save a few bucks, etc...the guy I bought the car off of said he was doing the same thing with the fuel (and he's a Lexus tech)...and for the most part I didn't notice much of anything in loss of fuel mileage, etc. The hesitation wasn't something that really bothered me because I usually don't find myself in situations where I have to mash the gas pedal into the floor, but I did want to know why the car was acting like that. After reading through a bunch of threads I came upon one post that said most of the time it's the fuel, but there is a reprogramming procedure as well. For me it was the fuel. I know others have solved an entirely different problem with the quality of their oil (TGMO).
So if you're going with a lesser grade of fuel...yes your miles per gallon won't really change...and no you won't be able to tell much of a difference...but don't be surprised if your car doesn't want to move in hard acceleration situations for a spell (I imagine it's the knock sensors kicking in).
06-20-15, 03:59 AM
#2
Worked for oil refinery for 10 years. Besides correct octane level, using a branded gas is an important fact. Gas at the unbranded stations don't sell gas with additives. My preference is any top tier gas stations. Further reading on top tier gas : http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Also another interesting point is, mid grade gas (89 or what ever based on your State) never been produced by any refineries. They are the result of mixing 93 (or 91) and 87 inside the gas tank trucks. So if you pump mid grade gas, most likely you will get little higher grade octane than 87 or 89!.
Also another interesting point is, mid grade gas (89 or what ever based on your State) never been produced by any refineries. They are the result of mixing 93 (or 91) and 87 inside the gas tank trucks. So if you pump mid grade gas, most likely you will get little higher grade octane than 87 or 89!.
06-20-15, 04:26 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Worked for oil refinery for 10 years. Besides correct octane level, using a branded gas is an important fact. Gas at the unbranded stations don't sell gas with additives. My preference is any top tier gas stations. Further reading on top tier gas : http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Also another interesting point is, mid grade gas (89 or what ever based on your State) never been produced by any refineries. They are the result of mixing 93 (or 91) and 87 inside the gas tank trucks. So if you pump mid grade gas, most likely you will get little higher grade octane than 87 or 89!.
Also another interesting point is, mid grade gas (89 or what ever based on your State) never been produced by any refineries. They are the result of mixing 93 (or 91) and 87 inside the gas tank trucks. So if you pump mid grade gas, most likely you will get little higher grade octane than 87 or 89!.
06-20-15, 05:06 AM
#4
Hey Doublebase, I'm glad that seems to have helped. I don't really understand logically how it fixed your problem. The knock sensors are designed to detect knock with lower octane fuel and retard the timing to prevent pinging and pre-detonation. This works the same way in the 430 and 400. Obviously, running the recommended fuel means they do not have to retard the timing but even if they did it should never produce seconds of hesitation. It should mean you just have less power vs running premium. Have you have the recall work done on your vehicle and the ECU reprogramming?
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 06-20-15 at 05:24 AM.
06-20-15, 06:25 AM
#5
I was aware how they made mid grade, but I didn't realize the part about branded gas. I signed up at Cumberland Farms (a local convenience store that sells gas) for their "gas card". Which gives you ten cents off per gallon of fuel and I've got to say that I do get the feeling that the quality of fuel is low. I don't seem to get as good gas mileage as I do from other local stations...and I do get the hesitation issue on their fuel. I didn't realize it made that much of a difference because it was something I never really paid attention to - at least until I started driving the LS - which seems to be a bit touchy with fuel.
Also, additives that goes in the gas gets added at the rack terminal. So, un-branded fuel will not have any trace of additives either. My favorite brands are Chevron, Shell and Exxon in that order. Disclaimer, I don't have any vested interest in any of those companies.
On financials, there is not much big saving (at least to me) between regular and premium brands. Take this example, annual miles driven : 15,000. Miles per gallon : 25. Gallon of fuel used per year : 600. Assuming price different between reg and premium is $0.40. Total saving by using reg for a year is max $240. Have been using branded premium or mid grade on all my vehicles and so far no fuel rail, fuel igniter, knocking or any other related issues (ES - 245k miles, GX - 132k miles, LS - 5k since I purchased).
06-20-15, 08:03 AM
#6
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Hey Doublebase, I'm glad that seems to have helped. I don't really understand logically how it fixed your problem. The knock sensors are designed to detect knock with lower octane fuel and retard the timing to prevent pinging and pre-detonation. This works the same way in the 430 and 400. Obviously, running the recommended fuel means they do not have to retard the timing but even if they did it should never produce seconds of hesitation. It should mean you just have less power vs running premium. Have you have the recall work done on your vehicle and the ECU reprogramming?
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06-20-15, 08:12 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
From refineries to fuel terminals (rack stations), gas fuel travels via pipelines. There is no dedicated pipelines for various grades/types of fuel. Same pipeline can be used by various companies such as Exxon, Shell etc. However, when fuel grade or type (gas vs diesel) changed, at the beginning of such changes both types of liquids would get mixed for certain duration of time. No big players would use take that mixed fuel. Pipeline companies end up selling those fuel at cheap rate to non-branded stations.
Also, additives that goes in the gas gets added at the rack terminal. So, un-branded fuel will not have any trace of additives either. My favorite brands are Chevron, Shell and Exxon in that order. Disclaimer, I don't have any vested interest in any of those companies.
On financials, there is not much big saving (at least to me) between regular and premium brands. Take this example, annual miles driven : 15,000. Miles per gallon : 25. Gallon of fuel used per year : 600. Assuming price different between reg and premium is $0.40. Total saving by using reg for a year is max $240. Have been using branded premium or mid grade on all my vehicles and so far no fuel rail, fuel igniter, knocking or any other related issues (ES - 245k miles, GX - 132k miles, LS - 5k since I purchased).
Also, additives that goes in the gas gets added at the rack terminal. So, un-branded fuel will not have any trace of additives either. My favorite brands are Chevron, Shell and Exxon in that order. Disclaimer, I don't have any vested interest in any of those companies.
On financials, there is not much big saving (at least to me) between regular and premium brands. Take this example, annual miles driven : 15,000. Miles per gallon : 25. Gallon of fuel used per year : 600. Assuming price different between reg and premium is $0.40. Total saving by using reg for a year is max $240. Have been using branded premium or mid grade on all my vehicles and so far no fuel rail, fuel igniter, knocking or any other related issues (ES - 245k miles, GX - 132k miles, LS - 5k since I purchased).
Interesting stuff.
06-20-15, 08:16 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Well I've heard that once you do it there is no going back. Overall I like the way my car runs, so I don't know if I want to mess with it too much, but if it is an improvement? Yeah I'd do it. Also I hear it's not free....that it would cost at least an hour's worth of labor (120.00). Plus - although during the recalls I've had good experiences - I'm not a big fan of taking my car to the dealer. I don't like waiting..I don't trust them...and I don't generally like other people working on my car. Even having someone do the recalls on my car worries me a bit.
06-20-15, 08:25 AM
#10
I understand where you are coming from. In general, it is good to update the ECU to the latest firmware. Often there are other improvements Lexus makes that they don't advertise including shifting of the transmission and even tweaks to fuel maps for better efficiency. Would not hurt to call Lexus cooperate and see if they will do it for free. You will be surprised how often being nice but insistent will work for you. My dealer takes care of me all the time because of the relationship we have built. They also checked and confirmed my ECU had been updated without a charge. I would personally do it. I don't think you have anything to loose.
06-20-15, 09:52 AM
#11
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I understand where you are coming from. In general, it is good to update the ECU to the latest firmware. Often there are other improvements Lexus makes that they don't advertise including shifting of the transmission and even tweaks to fuel maps for better efficiency. Would not hurt to call Lexus cooperate and see if they will do it for free. You will be surprised how often being nice but insistent will work for you. My dealer takes care of me all the time because of the relationship we have built. They also checked and confirmed my ECU had been updated without a charge. I would personally do it. I don't think you have anything to loose.
06-20-15, 02:33 PM
#12
Prior to owning my LS I owned a Audi and a Mercedes and both required super unleaded. I could definitely tell the difference if I used the cheaper brands and I had the hesitation problems. In my '10 LS I only use premium brands (mostly Shell super) and I avoid the cheaper brands.
06-20-15, 03:27 PM
#14
Wow! I didn't realize the gases would mix at the pipeline and be sold at a lower rate. So is there a chance diesel and regular fuel is being put in people's tanks around the country? Or are we just talking about different octanes of fuel being mixed?
Interesting stuff.
Interesting stuff.
Another interesting point is, good time to pump gasoline is in the morning hours (or when ever temperature is low). Fuel expands due to temperature. Pumping during hot afternoon will result less actual volume than what you see on the pump meter!. Volume difference due temperature variance are adjusted by systems during pipe transport and rack terminals but not at gas pumps!!!.
06-20-15, 03:32 PM
#15
Good advice about the temps. Also, topping off results in fuel going back into the return for the pump rather then down your tank and yet you pay for it. Something I did not know about for years.
While you may be tempted to add a little more gas to your car to round off your dollar sale- even at the risk of overfilling the tank-this is one instance when you shouldn't go with the flow.
Topping off the gas tank isn't just bad for the environment, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), it's also detrimental for your wallet. Because the gas nozzle automatically clicks off when your tank is full, topping off can result in your paying for gasoline that is fed back into the station's tanks via the pump's vapor-recovery system, which prevents gas vapors from escaping into the air and contributing to air pollution. In fact, topping off might even foul up the mechanism and cause not only a gas-pump failure, but also a potential air-pollution problem.
Plus, evaporation from the spillage of gas from overfilling-which you've paid for, by the way-contributes to bad-ozone days, is harmful to breathe, and is a source of toxic pollutants such as benzene.
You also need some wriggle room in your gas tank to allow the gasoline to expand, otherwise the additional gas could evaporate into your car's vapor-collection system and damage it, leading to a vehicle that runs poorly and has high gas emissions. ::EPA
Topping off the gas tank isn't just bad for the environment, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), it's also detrimental for your wallet. Because the gas nozzle automatically clicks off when your tank is full, topping off can result in your paying for gasoline that is fed back into the station's tanks via the pump's vapor-recovery system, which prevents gas vapors from escaping into the air and contributing to air pollution. In fact, topping off might even foul up the mechanism and cause not only a gas-pump failure, but also a potential air-pollution problem.
Plus, evaporation from the spillage of gas from overfilling-which you've paid for, by the way-contributes to bad-ozone days, is harmful to breathe, and is a source of toxic pollutants such as benzene.
You also need some wriggle room in your gas tank to allow the gasoline to expand, otherwise the additional gas could evaporate into your car's vapor-collection system and damage it, leading to a vehicle that runs poorly and has high gas emissions. ::EPA