greg3852

Every single other item is a wear item. I respectfully disagree. The car has nearly 100k miles and nothing but wear items have needed replacing.

new control arms, Wear item that happens
new brakes, Wear item (what car doesn't need brakes by 96k miles?)
new tires, Wear item (what car doesn't need tires by 96k miles?)
new water pump, Wear item It happens
new headlights, Wear item It happens
new battery, Wear item Happens to all cars
new belt tensioner, Wear item that can easily be replaced when water pump done.
new fluids, Why is this even included?

Seriously. This list is all items that are easily replaced and should be pretty standard on a car with this many miles. The list is actually pathetic, and an attempt to make the list look long. Fluids, tire, brakes, etc and Lexus should be ashamed? Doesn't make sense.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

so basically just the water pump, control arms and belt tensioner.

Its not much but people that buy the LS have such high expectations that almost anything breaking will be a let down.

To the OP, what exactly is the engine doing? Does it not start? Start and runs but makes noise?

I just hope the dealer isn't taking you for a long ride, happens all the time

Pamperme

Thankfully, even Lexus disagrees with you on your definition of "wear and tear". The water pumps and control arms have been improved and such faults have been addressed for the succeeding years. Clearly, Lexus HQ wasn't settling for such low standards.
Regarding the battery, fluids and tires, I am not disagreeing with you there.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

I got to agree here. Don't take me wrong - I love the floating ride of my LS. However compare to my 00 ES and 05 GX (both original owner), early versions of 460s seems to have some design/build issues.

Why would water pump and control arm be fail before say 70k miles?. I even doubt American cars have such failure rate particularly on those parts.

I have been on ES and GX forums for past 10+ years. My ES, 15 years old with almost 250k miles still runs on original water pump, control arm, belt tensioner, alternator etc. Same goes with GX. Compare to ES, GX had far share of issues such as cracking dashboard (late recall), leaking radiator, air suspension etc. Just for records, replaced 'original' front rotors with OEM ones on my ES last month. Lasted 15 years, 245k miles - no one will believe it!.

LS can't be and shouldn't be compared with ES/GX. Its Lexus's flagship product. At the very least I expect no issues through 100k miles except for wear and tear ( not greg's wear and tear - sorry) items such as brakes and fluids regardless of redesigned model or not. I would expect their first generation type of R&D and QC on each and every LS. At least that's how Toyota marketed in those days.

After those unintended acceleration incidents, during the House Committee hearings, Mr.Toyoda said that Toyota went on rapid expansion during mid 2000's and focus on QC was lost. Going by that timeline, 2007 LS production would have hit the design/drawing boards at least by 2004-5. Early productions of 460s having issue(s) mere coincidence or tied to above timeline - I don't know. But what I know based on browsing this forum and my personal experience, I would rank reliability in this order; 00 ES, 05 GX and 07-10 LS for first 100k miles with 00 ES being at the top.

Doublebase

I own the early LS460 you speak of and let me say I've never experienced ANY of the issues that you say damages their reliability reputation.

I currently have 98,000k miles on mine, I drive it as a commuter car (500-600 miles a week), no problems. Now when I say no problems, I mean no problems. Nothing. No leaking water pump (it's never been replaced). No burning of oil (not a drop all the way to 5,000 miles) - and I've never had a car capable of that. Original control arms, struts, tie rods, bearings - once again, I've never had a car go 100k miles without replacing something in the front end - but this car is fine.

And then we can always talk about the transmission, which may be a crowning achievement in the automotive industry...it's super reliable and it enables me to average 27 mpg in a car that has 390 horse power. That in itself should be something that should be applauded around here, but instead all I read about is control arms and water pumps...you kidding me?! Yes water pumps break - my friend's Tundra needed it's water pump replaced at 35k miles. And every car I've ever owned needed front suspension components replaced, regularly. I have a Honda Accord that has every piece of the front suspension replaced in it do to wear and tear. Every single piece...some more than twice.

The thing I love about my car is that everything works as it should...every button...every little light...every little gadget. I owned a Corvette and I swear to you that every single button and switch broke on that thing within three years. And I owned a totally loaded Expedition and half the interior lights stopped working after four years...the seat heaters broke, the door panels came loose, the sunroof sounded like it was going to explode every time it opened.

Devh

Agreed and small potatoes.
The biggest problem with internet forums is that many have the notion after an issue is posted that all of the same cars will suffer the same fate.
The only thing to take away from any of this is that these parts are more likely to prematurely go bad in a small percentage of cars. Demanding recalls like it was a safety issue is getting to the point where people feel an unjust sense of entitlement.

Devh

Your ownership experience as well as many trouble free owners don't matter. It's the ones that have the problem that seek out forums like this one that spew their vitriol for the car and feed the frenzy.

GS4004me

Dude this is what I would do, given another engine the car would bulletproof. I would be online to every jdm parts place or car recycling place I could find. engines and transmissions are and should be way cheaper.. here are two here ripples.com and Brandywine used parts. I got an old jdm transmission for my Acura years ago for $500, and it was bare used, looked very clean and it road brand new. then get some towing AAA or something, you can get it towed to where you want. preferably a Toyota dealer that works on Lexus, have the engine shipped there. It should be way cheaper but still expensive though. then those spark plugs you bought, send them or take them back get some money back in your pocket. and there you have it.

Pamperme

Clearly, your "no problem" experience helps to highlight just how much of a disgrace others' experiences have been that have had problems. Congrats on your pristine experience. Its my goal to make sure those type of experiences are shared by everyone, not just you.

Gbp

The problem with anecdotal evidence, positive and negative, even when "user error" is taken into consideration, is that it's easy to overgeneralize from it. The more data points one has, the better the assessment one can *generally* make about, say, a 2007 LS460. While this forum has proven valuable to me in assessing reliability of the LS460, I've combined that with looking at surveys from Consumer Reports and other sources. The number and nature of recall campaigns and TSB's has also been helpful.

Face it, though, after one has done their due diligence and purchased a car, it's all about anecdote.

That's the situation OP is in. Some of the problems (the botched sparkplug replacement, and ruining the engine, for example) he might have brought on himself, yet other problems might have occurred through no fault of his own. Some of the other problems could have been related to known issues of that model year or just reasonable wear and tear items for that amount of mileage.

Doublebase

Hey we all need goals, some people's goal is to run a marathon, I'm sure you're happy that "your goal" is to spread the word about water pump and control arm failures. Congrats. Of course your reporting of the LS could also be more in line with facts and statistics, but that stuff is boring and would never meet the criteria of the lofty goals you've set for yourself.

Pamperme

If u like consumer reports and their "facts and statistics", then you'll find my position even more appreciative. You are more than welcome to build your case against me, supplying "facts and statistics" of your own. In fact, I would love for you to do just that. Prove my position wrong.

roadfrog

If you're referring to the 07 and 08 receiving less than a full red dot under "engine end drivetrain", that was due to the valve spring issue which was recalled and dealt with. The rest of the criteria were all identical to '09 and up M.Y.'s.

Gbp

This is your position, right?
Speaking in generalities, despite the best efforts of a manufacturer, it's natural that early MY's for a given car tend to have more problems than later MY's. I think it's safe to say that the LS460 is an entirely different car from the LS430. Indeed, as one looks at the problem areas for the LS460 in Consumer Reports, they diminish in later model years.

Regarding Consumer Reports, the overall reliability of the 2007 and 2008 LS460's is "better than average". From 2009 on, it's "much better than average". Even if your contention were correct -- we'd have to go back much further than 2005 information to confirm that -- it's clear to me that "LEAST reliable" is a bit of hyperbole.

ETA: And I'd guess most would far prefer the reliability of 2007 and 2008 LS460's over their contemporaries from other brands.

johnnyreb

I Agree, something Smells Fishy here (but there are lemons in every brand of cars)! GL!