Repairs Done So Far - Is this normal?
04-21-15, 06:27 PM
#31
Just to be clear... I'm far from the only one with issues with this model.
Read the boards. There are may threads about suspension issues, brake actuator issues, and some other issues that most of us owners have.
If you read the boards some guys are willing to allow Lexus off the hook for these issues. People post "well it's a good thing you have a warranty" guess what? In no time your warranty will be up and I venture to guess you'll think your car is a lemon too.
Maybe your new to the brand, I am not. I've owned a 94' LS a 96' LS an 00 and an 02' LS. They were quality cars with little or no issues. My 02' LS430 UL was a beast that had over 225K miles when I traded it. It ran like day one when I traded it. That was a good car. This car, with impeccable service history, I will add, is a POS. Not just mine, the model. When you build up a good relationship with a service adviser at Lexus they will tell you.
It is what it is. The car is not a true representation of the Lexus brand that I grew to love over the last 2 decades that I've owned em.
Read the boards. There are may threads about suspension issues, brake actuator issues, and some other issues that most of us owners have.
If you read the boards some guys are willing to allow Lexus off the hook for these issues. People post "well it's a good thing you have a warranty" guess what? In no time your warranty will be up and I venture to guess you'll think your car is a lemon too.
Maybe your new to the brand, I am not. I've owned a 94' LS a 96' LS an 00 and an 02' LS. They were quality cars with little or no issues. My 02' LS430 UL was a beast that had over 225K miles when I traded it. It ran like day one when I traded it. That was a good car. This car, with impeccable service history, I will add, is a POS. Not just mine, the model. When you build up a good relationship with a service adviser at Lexus they will tell you.
It is what it is. The car is not a true representation of the Lexus brand that I grew to love over the last 2 decades that I've owned em.
Are you saying that no one has issues with a LS 400 or 430.
There will be some out of the majority that have issues and those people seek out boards like this and express their anger. Not many speak about the incredible reliability of their LS 460 because it's not only boring to do so but they would rather do something else with their time like complain about a broken washing machine on an Amazon review.
This maybe my first Lexus but it's by far not my first Toyota which it is in every way a Toyota. Toyota cars and trucks have one or more common issues with them just like any other car and when it was addressed those cars proven their reliability for the long run.
We have a few examples of LS460 that has over 200k miles without much of any work done to them reported by the owners.
04-21-15, 06:58 PM
#32
My warranty is up and still no issues.
Are you saying that no one has issues with a LS 400 or 430.
There will be some out of the majority that have issues and those people seek out boards like this and express their anger. Not many speak about the incredible reliability of their LS 460 because it's not only boring to do so but they would rather do something else with their time like complain about a broken washing machine on an Amazon review.
This maybe my first Lexus but it's by far not my first Toyota which it is in every way a Toyota. Toyota cars and trucks have one or more common issues with them just like any other car and when it was addressed those cars proven their reliability for the long run.
We have a few examples of LS460 that has over 200k miles without much of any work done to them reported by the owners.
Are you saying that no one has issues with a LS 400 or 430.
There will be some out of the majority that have issues and those people seek out boards like this and express their anger. Not many speak about the incredible reliability of their LS 460 because it's not only boring to do so but they would rather do something else with their time like complain about a broken washing machine on an Amazon review.
This maybe my first Lexus but it's by far not my first Toyota which it is in every way a Toyota. Toyota cars and trucks have one or more common issues with them just like any other car and when it was addressed those cars proven their reliability for the long run.
We have a few examples of LS460 that has over 200k miles without much of any work done to them reported by the owners.
But.. if you are saying that the 460 is a more reliable car than the 400 and 430 then you just don't know what your talking about.
This is your first Lexus so it's hard to knock you for not understanding the difference.
My wife has an 08' Sequoia. Her truck has 180K trouble free miles, safe a water pump at 80K.
That's toyota quality.
Replacing air struts, brake actuators, control arms, weather stripping around windows, ticking high pressure fuel pumps.... that's not Lexus quality. To say it is would be an uniformed statement.
04-21-15, 08:06 PM
#33
BT3100, I am sorry you've gone through all these issues. I went through most of those some years ago, as I posted earlier in this thread. The 460L did end up running like a Swiss watch, and I would've kept it were it not for the itch to get the 600h.
The LS460 is a fantastic car when operating as designed, but let's not kid ourselves. The myriad TSIBs and recalls speak for themselves. I am hardly here to bash the car. Issues aside, it is an awesome feat of engineering, especially considering that we are evaluating a design that's almost 10 years old, yet it remains relevant. However, I can't blame BT3100 or others for being frustrated. I know I was when I was dealing with issues.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, there is plenty of evidence of Lexus "dropping the ball" a bit (again, relative to its own stellar record) during that '05-'06 period when rushing to release all L-finesse models in sequence. ES, GS and LS all had issues, even though LS issues arguably took longer to surface (e.g., bushings). This much has been openly acknowledged by many people I've casually chatted with, individuals with ties to the company.
Like I always say, while the incidence of problems matters, the key differentiator (to me) between auto manufacturers is how they handle issues. This is where, IMHO, Lexus stands out (and has made me a customer for life).
For folks with minimal issues (Devh), that's awesome. However, with all due respect, let's get off the high horse. I will not call the LS460 a POS, but I can't say there is any compelling evidence whatsoever proving that it is comparable to the LS430 or 400 in terms of reliability. I can't imagine this is remotely the case. Frankly, while - as I said - I ended up delighted with my 460L, had I been the original owner (who paid $83k+ for it) and had to deal with all these suspension issues, etc., at 40k miles, I would not have been happy.
Anyway, I'm tired and probably making little sense by now, so I'll stop rambling.
The LS460 is a fantastic car when operating as designed, but let's not kid ourselves. The myriad TSIBs and recalls speak for themselves. I am hardly here to bash the car. Issues aside, it is an awesome feat of engineering, especially considering that we are evaluating a design that's almost 10 years old, yet it remains relevant. However, I can't blame BT3100 or others for being frustrated. I know I was when I was dealing with issues.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, there is plenty of evidence of Lexus "dropping the ball" a bit (again, relative to its own stellar record) during that '05-'06 period when rushing to release all L-finesse models in sequence. ES, GS and LS all had issues, even though LS issues arguably took longer to surface (e.g., bushings). This much has been openly acknowledged by many people I've casually chatted with, individuals with ties to the company.
Like I always say, while the incidence of problems matters, the key differentiator (to me) between auto manufacturers is how they handle issues. This is where, IMHO, Lexus stands out (and has made me a customer for life).
For folks with minimal issues (Devh), that's awesome. However, with all due respect, let's get off the high horse. I will not call the LS460 a POS, but I can't say there is any compelling evidence whatsoever proving that it is comparable to the LS430 or 400 in terms of reliability. I can't imagine this is remotely the case. Frankly, while - as I said - I ended up delighted with my 460L, had I been the original owner (who paid $83k+ for it) and had to deal with all these suspension issues, etc., at 40k miles, I would not have been happy.
Anyway, I'm tired and probably making little sense by now, so I'll stop rambling.
Last edited by caha14; 04-21-15 at 08:10 PM.
04-21-15, 08:36 PM
#34
Where did I say no one has issues with 430s?
But.. if you are saying that the 460 is a more reliable car than the 400 and 430 then you just don't know what your talking about.
This is your first Lexus so it's hard to knock you for not understanding the difference.
My wife has an 08' Sequoia. Her truck has 180K trouble free miles, safe a water pump at 80K.
That's toyota quality.
Replacing air struts, brake actuators, control arms, weather stripping around windows, ticking high pressure fuel pumps.... that's not Lexus quality. To say it is would be an uniformed statement.
But.. if you are saying that the 460 is a more reliable car than the 400 and 430 then you just don't know what your talking about.
This is your first Lexus so it's hard to knock you for not understanding the difference.
My wife has an 08' Sequoia. Her truck has 180K trouble free miles, safe a water pump at 80K.
That's toyota quality.
Replacing air struts, brake actuators, control arms, weather stripping around windows, ticking high pressure fuel pumps.... that's not Lexus quality. To say it is would be an uniformed statement.
If the LS460 was even remotely bad it would certainly be a point of contention would it not. It would be littered with black circles but it does not exist.
Lets say I buy into the argument that the LS 460 is flawed then what does it say for the entire car industry on the whole if it is top dog.
04-21-15, 09:20 PM
#35
BT3100, I am sorry you've gone through all these issues. I went through most of those some years ago, as I posted earlier in this thread. The 460L did end up running like a Swiss watch, and I would've kept it were it not for the itch to get the 600h.
The LS460 is a fantastic car when operating as designed, but let's not kid ourselves. The myriad TSIBs and recalls speak for themselves. I am hardly here to bash the car. Issues aside, it is an awesome feat of engineering, especially considering that we are evaluating a design that's almost 10 years old, yet it remains relevant. However, I can't blame BT3100 or others for being frustrated. I know I was when I was dealing with issues.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, there is plenty of evidence of Lexus "dropping the ball" a bit (again, relative to its own stellar record) during that '05-'06 period when rushing to release all L-finesse models in sequence. ES, GS and LS all had issues, even though LS issues arguably took longer to surface (e.g., bushings). This much has been openly acknowledged by many people I've casually chatted with, individuals with ties to the company.
Like I always say, while the incidence of problems matters, the key differentiator (to me) between auto manufacturers is how they handle issues. This is where, IMHO, Lexus stands out (and has made me a customer for life).
For folks with minimal issues (Devh), that's awesome. However, with all due respect, let's get off the high horse. I will not call the LS460 a POS, but I can't say there is any compelling evidence whatsoever proving that it is comparable to the LS430 or 400 in terms of reliability. I can't imagine this is remotely the case. Frankly, while - as I said - I ended up delighted with my 460L, had I been the original owner (who paid $83k+ for it) and had to deal with all these suspension issues, etc., at 40k miles, I would not have been happy.
Anyway, I'm tired and probably making little sense by now, so I'll stop rambling.
The LS460 is a fantastic car when operating as designed, but let's not kid ourselves. The myriad TSIBs and recalls speak for themselves. I am hardly here to bash the car. Issues aside, it is an awesome feat of engineering, especially considering that we are evaluating a design that's almost 10 years old, yet it remains relevant. However, I can't blame BT3100 or others for being frustrated. I know I was when I was dealing with issues.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, there is plenty of evidence of Lexus "dropping the ball" a bit (again, relative to its own stellar record) during that '05-'06 period when rushing to release all L-finesse models in sequence. ES, GS and LS all had issues, even though LS issues arguably took longer to surface (e.g., bushings). This much has been openly acknowledged by many people I've casually chatted with, individuals with ties to the company.
Like I always say, while the incidence of problems matters, the key differentiator (to me) between auto manufacturers is how they handle issues. This is where, IMHO, Lexus stands out (and has made me a customer for life).
For folks with minimal issues (Devh), that's awesome. However, with all due respect, let's get off the high horse. I will not call the LS460 a POS, but I can't say there is any compelling evidence whatsoever proving that it is comparable to the LS430 or 400 in terms of reliability. I can't imagine this is remotely the case. Frankly, while - as I said - I ended up delighted with my 460L, had I been the original owner (who paid $83k+ for it) and had to deal with all these suspension issues, etc., at 40k miles, I would not have been happy.
Anyway, I'm tired and probably making little sense by now, so I'll stop rambling.
That was not the point I was arguing. My point is that the LS 460 is not a lemon as it was asserted here. My car and the owners of these cars yourself included do not deserve that reputation.
There are some owners who experienced problems with the LS 460 and I'm not denying it but to say this is far from typical of most cars is a gross oversimplification. If you go to any car forum even for the most reliable cars you will always find those that have issues but it doesn't mean that the silent majority will be doomed at some point in time.
Last edited by Devh; 04-21-15 at 09:24 PM.
04-22-15, 12:12 AM
#36
My warranty is up and still no issues.
Are you saying that no one has issues with a LS 400 or 430.
There will be some out of the majority that have issues and those people seek out boards like this and express their anger. Not many speak about the incredible reliability of their LS 460 because it's not only boring to do so but they would rather do something else with their time like complain about a broken washing machine on an Amazon review.
This maybe my first Lexus but it's by far not my first Toyota which it is in every way a Toyota. Toyota cars and trucks have one or more common issues with them just like any other car and when it was addressed those cars proven their reliability for the long run.
We have a few examples of LS460 that has over 200k miles without much of any work done to them reported by the owners.
Are you saying that no one has issues with a LS 400 or 430.
There will be some out of the majority that have issues and those people seek out boards like this and express their anger. Not many speak about the incredible reliability of their LS 460 because it's not only boring to do so but they would rather do something else with their time like complain about a broken washing machine on an Amazon review.
This maybe my first Lexus but it's by far not my first Toyota which it is in every way a Toyota. Toyota cars and trucks have one or more common issues with them just like any other car and when it was addressed those cars proven their reliability for the long run.
We have a few examples of LS460 that has over 200k miles without much of any work done to them reported by the owners.
I know we Lexus owners take pride in our cars and don't like to be told negative information, but it's time to put the sensitivity aside and start calling a spade a spade. Anyone who's familiar with my posts knows that I pull no punches when it comes to reliablity. I'll commend Toyota and any other company when they do well, but I will also chew them up and spit them them out when they don't. And Lexus, your LS460's have not been up to par. The later ones seem to have most of the issues addressed, but only time will tell if that remains the case.
Last edited by Pamperme; 04-22-15 at 06:29 AM.
04-22-15, 08:49 AM
#37
Pole Position
I own the dreaded LS460 - even worse - I own the 07 model....so I'm really in trouble. At 95,000 miles I have yet to experience any of the problems associated with this thread, so when I go to bed tonight I'll be sure to check under it for scary control arm bushings that may be lurking underneath.
At 95,000 miles I've never driven a car that feels so new. Never. I average 600 miles a week on the thing - it is damn near a taxi cab - yet if it could talk, I'm sure it would say...more, drive me more. It's eager to please. It burns no oil, the tranny doesn't miss a shift, it handles well, it gets great gas mileage, it steers straight, it doesn't rattle or clunk, it has power, it looks awesome, it's more comfortable than my living room, it's quiet, it's classy, it doesn't leak and it is reliable.
The other day I had the thing on a lift and believe me this is a well built car. I dare anyone to put a car with 95,000 miles up in the air and take a look underneath...you'll find something leaking...the LS looks brand new. It's an amazing sight. And with most cars if I had driven 5,000 miles I'd lose some oil, but not with this thing. The engine is pretty amazing. And I honestly can't believe anyone would complain about the high pressure fuel pumps on this car, you kidding me? Has anyone ever heard what direct injection sounds like? I'll put this direct injection system - in terms of noise - against any other system out there. Believe me you will be shocked at what you'll find.
I have no idea if this car will travel into the realm of the 400 or 430, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
At 95,000 miles I've never driven a car that feels so new. Never. I average 600 miles a week on the thing - it is damn near a taxi cab - yet if it could talk, I'm sure it would say...more, drive me more. It's eager to please. It burns no oil, the tranny doesn't miss a shift, it handles well, it gets great gas mileage, it steers straight, it doesn't rattle or clunk, it has power, it looks awesome, it's more comfortable than my living room, it's quiet, it's classy, it doesn't leak and it is reliable.
The other day I had the thing on a lift and believe me this is a well built car. I dare anyone to put a car with 95,000 miles up in the air and take a look underneath...you'll find something leaking...the LS looks brand new. It's an amazing sight. And with most cars if I had driven 5,000 miles I'd lose some oil, but not with this thing. The engine is pretty amazing. And I honestly can't believe anyone would complain about the high pressure fuel pumps on this car, you kidding me? Has anyone ever heard what direct injection sounds like? I'll put this direct injection system - in terms of noise - against any other system out there. Believe me you will be shocked at what you'll find.
I have no idea if this car will travel into the realm of the 400 or 430, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
04-22-15, 09:36 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
And Lexus, your LS460's have not been up to par.
I find it hilarious that some continue to compare the LS460 to the 400 and 430's. They are completely different vehicles with the 460 being three times the vehicle of the others. Spend some time on other marquee forums (or any other car forums), and then come back and tell us that the LS460 is a "lemon". Ridiculous.
My LS (08 my), with nearly 90k miles has needed a battery, mufflers and a water pump.... that's it. To a grand sum of 600 bucks. Every inch of the car still looks like new, including the engine bay and the underneath. It amazes me every time I drive it.
04-22-15, 09:51 AM
#39
Explain, "par".
I find it hilarious that some continue to compare the LS460 to the 400 and 430's. They are completely different vehicles with the 460 being three times the vehicle of the others. Spend some time on other marquee forums (or any other car forums), and then come back and tell us that the LS460 is a "lemon". Ridiculous.
My LS (08 my), with nearly 90k miles has needed a battery, mufflers and a water pump.... that's it. To a grand sum of 600 bucks. Every inch of the car still looks like new, including the engine bay and the underneath. It amazes me every time I drive it.
I find it hilarious that some continue to compare the LS460 to the 400 and 430's. They are completely different vehicles with the 460 being three times the vehicle of the others. Spend some time on other marquee forums (or any other car forums), and then come back and tell us that the LS460 is a "lemon". Ridiculous.
My LS (08 my), with nearly 90k miles has needed a battery, mufflers and a water pump.... that's it. To a grand sum of 600 bucks. Every inch of the car still looks like new, including the engine bay and the underneath. It amazes me every time I drive it.
04-22-15, 04:33 PM
#40
At 95,000 miles I've never driven a car that feels so new. Never. I average 600 miles a week on the thing - it is damn near a taxi cab - yet if it could talk, I'm sure it would say...more, drive me more. It's eager to please. It burns no oil, the tranny doesn't miss a shift, it handles well, it gets great gas mileage, it steers straight, it doesn't rattle or clunk, it has power, it looks awesome, it's more comfortable than my living room, it's quiet, it's classy, it doesn't leak and it is reliable.
The other day I had the thing on a lift and believe me this is a well built car. I dare anyone to put a car with 95,000 miles up in the air and take a look underneath...you'll find something leaking...the LS looks brand new. It's an amazing sight. And with most cars if I had driven 5,000 miles I'd lose some oil, but not with this thing. The engine is pretty amazing. And I honestly can't believe anyone would complain about the high pressure fuel pumps on this car, you kidding me? Has anyone ever heard what direct injection sounds like? I'll put this direct injection system - in terms of noise - against any other system out there. Believe me you will be shocked at what you'll find.
The other day I had the thing on a lift and believe me this is a well built car. I dare anyone to put a car with 95,000 miles up in the air and take a look underneath...you'll find something leaking...the LS looks brand new. It's an amazing sight. And with most cars if I had driven 5,000 miles I'd lose some oil, but not with this thing. The engine is pretty amazing. And I honestly can't believe anyone would complain about the high pressure fuel pumps on this car, you kidding me? Has anyone ever heard what direct injection sounds like? I'll put this direct injection system - in terms of noise - against any other system out there. Believe me you will be shocked at what you'll find.
Explain, "par".
I find it hilarious that some continue to compare the LS460 to the 400 and 430's. They are completely different vehicles with the 460 being three times the vehicle of the others. Spend some time on other marquee forums (or any other car forums), and then come back and tell us that the LS460 is a "lemon". Ridiculous.
My LS (08 my), with nearly 90k miles has needed a battery, mufflers and a water pump.... that's it. To a grand sum of 600 bucks. Every inch of the car still looks like new, including the engine bay and the underneath. It amazes me every time I drive it.
I find it hilarious that some continue to compare the LS460 to the 400 and 430's. They are completely different vehicles with the 460 being three times the vehicle of the others. Spend some time on other marquee forums (or any other car forums), and then come back and tell us that the LS460 is a "lemon". Ridiculous.
My LS (08 my), with nearly 90k miles has needed a battery, mufflers and a water pump.... that's it. To a grand sum of 600 bucks. Every inch of the car still looks like new, including the engine bay and the underneath. It amazes me every time I drive it.
The main issue is, at the end of the day, with the quality of some components that should not be wear-and-tear parts (at a relatively young age, anyway). In addition, you also have things like the valve spring recall creating an unfavorable narrative. Even if fixed perfectly (which mine, thankfully, was), leading to no burning oil, etc., I can't imagine this would not be a shock (to have to have your engine opened up) to anyone who's been "spoiled" by Lexus' legendary reliability over the last couple of decades.
Then there are the costs... For someone with 60k miles and out of warranty to be asked to fork over thousands to replace control arms is, arguably, extreme. Yes, I know you could get the bushings separately, go to an independent shop with a press, buy the arms off eBay, etc., but that is not the point. For what it's worth, I had never in my life, on any car, replaced control arms until the LS460. Even if the car is solidly built (which it is), I would argue it's difficult for someone who's accustomed to Lexus to be hit with all these issues.
Frankly, I would argue that even your water pump and muffler issues are surprising.
Bottom line, in my view, it is still a phenomenal vehicle. If you haven't encountered major issues, as I said, that is wonderful. Talk to folks that are closer to the action (dealer, factory), though, and while there is justified pride in the first-ever 8-speed tranny, the super-smooth and powerful engine, the ML Reference Surround system, etc. (i.e., all the things introduced with the 2007 MY LS), there is also - unequivocally - a sense that the car has fallen short in other areas (at least from the folks I've spoken with) and that in order to grow quickly, Lexus did inadvertently allow reliability to slip a hair. Again, the TSIBs and recalls speak for themselves (as do all the well-documented crap load of issues with the GS and ES released around the same time).
04-22-15, 06:20 PM
#41
Pole Position
caha14, you make some reasonable points, but some of it is not realistic. The control arms being one. You have never had to replace control arms in a car?? I can guarantee you that if that is true, it's a very rare accomplishment. I've replaced my control arms 6 times in my Honda Accord. Speaking of Honda, google control arm failures on the Honda Odyssey...they replace them like they are going out of style. I've seen some GM cars control arms almost fall out of the vehicle. Unless you are going back 20 years to the older short, long arm style of front suspension systems, you are going to find control arm problems.
And I want you to consider something...how many people on here complain about ball joint or tie rod replacement (which is normal everyday wear items)? I haven't heard anyone even mention those components, I imagine it's because the stress of the suspension is placed on the bushings, rather than those other components. Either way things are going to wear in the front end and need to be replaced. And it's already been discussed that those control arms can be replaced much, much cheaper at an independent shop.
And you mention muffler and water pump "issues", how are they issues? Water pumps are designed to fail, they have a seal and when the seal fails, the coolant is allowed into the bearing and out the weep hole. it usually happens anywhere from 80k miles to 120k miles. The pump on this car is a $50 dollar part that takes and hour to install. As for the mufflers...mufflers fail...they fail a lot. I have put maybe 15 mufflers on various cars I've owned. I haven't had to replace the ones in my LS yet, but I know it will happen sooner or later.
I'm not saying it's the best car ever built, but it certainly isn't a lemon. I've put 270 miles on my car since I changed the oil last night - I pulled the dipstick to give the level a once over - the oil looked so clean that I almost couldn't see it on the dipstick. I know I just changed it, but the car has 95k miles on it, I've seen plenty of engines that the oil would look dirty even after an oil change.
And I want you to consider something...how many people on here complain about ball joint or tie rod replacement (which is normal everyday wear items)? I haven't heard anyone even mention those components, I imagine it's because the stress of the suspension is placed on the bushings, rather than those other components. Either way things are going to wear in the front end and need to be replaced. And it's already been discussed that those control arms can be replaced much, much cheaper at an independent shop.
And you mention muffler and water pump "issues", how are they issues? Water pumps are designed to fail, they have a seal and when the seal fails, the coolant is allowed into the bearing and out the weep hole. it usually happens anywhere from 80k miles to 120k miles. The pump on this car is a $50 dollar part that takes and hour to install. As for the mufflers...mufflers fail...they fail a lot. I have put maybe 15 mufflers on various cars I've owned. I haven't had to replace the ones in my LS yet, but I know it will happen sooner or later.
I'm not saying it's the best car ever built, but it certainly isn't a lemon. I've put 270 miles on my car since I changed the oil last night - I pulled the dipstick to give the level a once over - the oil looked so clean that I almost couldn't see it on the dipstick. I know I just changed it, but the car has 95k miles on it, I've seen plenty of engines that the oil would look dirty even after an oil change.
04-22-15, 07:24 PM
#42
caha14, you make some reasonable points, but some of it is not realistic. The control arms being one. You have never had to replace control arms in a car?? I can guarantee you that if that is true, it's a very rare accomplishment. I've replaced my control arms 6 times in my Honda Accord. Speaking of Honda, google control arm failures on the Honda Odyssey...they replace them like they are going out of style. I've seen some GM cars control arms almost fall out of the vehicle. Unless you are going back 20 years to the older short, long arm style of front suspension systems, you are going to find control arm problems.
And I want you to consider something...how many people on here complain about ball joint or tie rod replacement (which is normal everyday wear items)? I haven't heard anyone even mention those components, I imagine it's because the stress of the suspension is placed on the bushings, rather than those other components. Either way things are going to wear in the front end and need to be replaced. And it's already been discussed that those control arms can be replaced much, much cheaper at an independent shop.
And you mention muffler and water pump "issues", how are they issues? Water pumps are designed to fail, they have a seal and when the seal fails, the coolant is allowed into the bearing and out the weep hole. it usually happens anywhere from 80k miles to 120k miles. The pump on this car is a $50 dollar part that takes and hour to install. As for the mufflers...mufflers fail...they fail a lot. I have put maybe 15 mufflers on various cars I've owned. I haven't had to replace the ones in my LS yet, but I know it will happen sooner or later.
I'm not saying it's the best car ever built, but it certainly isn't a lemon. I've put 270 miles on my car since I changed the oil last night - I pulled the dipstick to give the level a once over - the oil looked so clean that I almost couldn't see it on the dipstick. I know I just changed it, but the car has 95k miles on it, I've seen plenty of engines that the oil would look dirty even after an oil change.
And I want you to consider something...how many people on here complain about ball joint or tie rod replacement (which is normal everyday wear items)? I haven't heard anyone even mention those components, I imagine it's because the stress of the suspension is placed on the bushings, rather than those other components. Either way things are going to wear in the front end and need to be replaced. And it's already been discussed that those control arms can be replaced much, much cheaper at an independent shop.
And you mention muffler and water pump "issues", how are they issues? Water pumps are designed to fail, they have a seal and when the seal fails, the coolant is allowed into the bearing and out the weep hole. it usually happens anywhere from 80k miles to 120k miles. The pump on this car is a $50 dollar part that takes and hour to install. As for the mufflers...mufflers fail...they fail a lot. I have put maybe 15 mufflers on various cars I've owned. I haven't had to replace the ones in my LS yet, but I know it will happen sooner or later.
I'm not saying it's the best car ever built, but it certainly isn't a lemon. I've put 270 miles on my car since I changed the oil last night - I pulled the dipstick to give the level a once over - the oil looked so clean that I almost couldn't see it on the dipstick. I know I just changed it, but the car has 95k miles on it, I've seen plenty of engines that the oil would look dirty even after an oil change.
On control arms: I wasn't specific enough. I've never kept a car past 100k, and my point is that I was surprised that the first car to need control arms was the LS and that it needed them at 3 years and 40k miles.
I also mentioned the lower cost options, so I'm with you there. The point is again about "premature" failure, whatever we want to define as premature. Sticker shock only adds insult to injury.
On the water pump and muffler, I didn't mean "issues" in the same sense as the documented problems, and of course expect both to fail at some point. I was referring specifically to roadfrog's comment about his own car. I always read about his adventures with his car and remember there being a great deal of surprise with the way his mufflers looked (relative to age).
Water pump seems a bit borderline, but I ultimately don't know how it compares historically. There's been a lot of chatter on water pumps across some models in the Lexus line up, for sure, but I don't believe LS is on this "list".
Engine oil? No argument there...
04-23-15, 04:24 AM
#43
Pole Position
No real disagreement here, actually...
On control arms: I wasn't specific enough. I've never kept a car past 100k, and my point is that I was surprised that the first car to need control arms was the LS and that it needed them at 3 years and 40k miles.
I also mentioned the lower cost options, so I'm with you there. The point is again about "premature" failure, whatever we want to define as premature. Sticker shock only adds insult to injury.
On the water pump and muffler, I didn't mean "issues" in the same sense as the documented problems, and of course expect both to fail at some point. I was referring specifically to roadfrog's comment about his own car. I always read about his adventures with his car and remember there being a great deal of surprise with the way his mufflers looked (relative to age).
Water pump seems a bit borderline, but I ultimately don't know how it compares historically. There's been a lot of chatter on water pumps across some models in the Lexus line up, for sure, but I don't believe LS is on this "list".
Engine oil? No argument there...
On control arms: I wasn't specific enough. I've never kept a car past 100k, and my point is that I was surprised that the first car to need control arms was the LS and that it needed them at 3 years and 40k miles.
I also mentioned the lower cost options, so I'm with you there. The point is again about "premature" failure, whatever we want to define as premature. Sticker shock only adds insult to injury.
On the water pump and muffler, I didn't mean "issues" in the same sense as the documented problems, and of course expect both to fail at some point. I was referring specifically to roadfrog's comment about his own car. I always read about his adventures with his car and remember there being a great deal of surprise with the way his mufflers looked (relative to age).
Water pump seems a bit borderline, but I ultimately don't know how it compares historically. There's been a lot of chatter on water pumps across some models in the Lexus line up, for sure, but I don't believe LS is on this "list".
Engine oil? No argument there...
I do think the mufflers on this car are in a bad location...the rear tires throw everything right on them, but mine are still fine. There is probably a 1/4 inch of sand on top of mine right now - I'm serious - but they aren't leaking.
I think if you get 100k out of your water pump you're doing alright. My friend's Tundra had the water pump fail at 25k, apparently the Tundra has had some issues in that department.
And I don't think that you're picking on the car, or calling it a lemon....in fact I agree that control arms that fail at 40k is not good, especially with (at the time) prices to fix them.
04-25-15, 12:38 PM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
