airchomper

It was easier to be 'much better than average' in 1990 than 2007. CR sometimes publishes information about what it takes to earn the highest rating in each category, (e.g fewer then 1% of cars report major engine work, fewer then 2% report audio issues). And I'm really only familiar with 2003-2009 reliability data, but even in those few years, overall quality got much better.

The average LS460 has fewer issues per car, and fewer issues per mile than the 1989 LS400s. So how can it be that the LS460 is the least reliable Lexus LS ever made? I

But if you're just going to bleat about red dots and black dots, then yes, the LS460 has worse dots than the LS400. But I don't buy dots, and people who care about quality and reliability probably just care about how much bologna they'll have to deal with to drive their car. And by all accounts, the LS460 is more trouble free than the 1989 LS400s, both as new cars, and both as cars with a 100k miles on them. So again, how can it be that the LS460 is the least reliable Lexus LS ever made?

CRowe14

Honestly I don't think anyone is settling per say.
I will be the first to say that I am probably the least knowledgeable regarding automotive reliability trends, especially when it comes to Lexus (the LS), however, amidst reading this thread I will say that an element of ration is missing on Pampermes' statements.

I have yet to read from anyone, plainly in text, that anyone is stating that the LS does not possess problematic issues.
Airchomper has actually provided some data that is very fact specific, to aid the claim that he is making. Devh has also clearly stated, on SERVERAL occasions that though the LS does have its issues, 07-08 particularly, for a luxury sedan, that is 8+ years old may I add, with all of the engineering technology it possesses, even with the issues it has, overall, it is a very solid vehicle.
And again, as its been spoken bout before, lets not even delve into the Japanese vs Germany luxury arena! Devh? Road Frog? Any previous German car owners who've made the switch to Japanese craftsmanship?? Feel free to chime in for a billionth time! This forum represents a minute percentage of the number of 460 owners, and yet the issues presented here by many of the members-some more permanent, some flash in the pan members, usually are financially feasibly address issues. And as Airchomper stated, the issues are usually like-related issues.

"So my argument is this - judging by recalls and TSBs, the 1989 LS400s had more issues in the factory warranty period than 2007/2008 LS460s."


"Is the LS460 less reliable than the 2006 LS430? Definitely. Is the LS460 much more expensive to repair? Yes, especially if you shop around for experts and o.e.m parts. Is the LS460 the least reliable LS since 1991? Probably. But it's not the least reliable Lexus LS generation ever."


This individual is clearly saying that the 460 is NOT perfect! And statistically, do you have anything to combat what he stated, or are you simply being argumentative for the sake of, what appears to be, bashing the car, rather than backing your standpoint with factual data? Because im sorry - a few opinions, CR and a forum simply isn't enough.
You keep saying that Lexus should step up and do better to put it plainly...
Allow me to portray a point of view for you that perhaps your not taking into consideration.
When building something with as many moving and communicative parts as an automobile, the levels and tolerances of ingenuity are incogitable. I am absolutely sure that 7milesout can contest to this, as her has worked for Toyota specifically.
As a designing team, you do your best to conceptually design, build and manufacture all that comprises to make a car what it is. In this case, the LS. I hardly think that Lexus, when a meeting of the minds takes place at their R&D facility to conceive the many ideals that combine to make the LS what it is, say: "What can we do to make a product that will perform so-so? What short cuts can we take? C'mon guys, this is the flagship vehicle...what can we do to make it almost be a great car?".
When embarking on making something more technically advance in attempts to make it more of a high performing vehicle, you try your best by compiling data, and designing to the best of ones capabilities with the knowledge base that you have. And this does not account for the items on the car which aren't designed by the Lexus team.
But guess what, everything that's designed and incorporated into the car may not perform or last as well as anticipated, thus: recalls.
Again, as many have stated, Lexus has gone above and beyond many, many car manufacturers to satisfy their customer base.
I would like to believe with the Legacy that Lexus has build thus far, that the company will take a look at compiled data and address as many if not all of the issues its had over the years and try to make a better overall product. Its not perfect, but given all of the bells and whistles this car has, an awful lot more can go wrong, wouldn't you agree?
There are many variables to account for when speaking about performance and reliability issues:
How its been driven, climate/geographic location, maint. schedule, highway vs city driving, or sometimes... just out of production, faulty.
I honestly don't think that people are settling. I think that over all people are considering the type of vehicle they have and looking at the grand scope of what the car is and saying (most of the time): With the type of car this is, and for the amount of money being asked for it being that its in the upper echelon of luxury sedans (some may say the benchmark), and the choices I have at this price point...this is not a bad car to own.
There is always room for improvement with nearly everything that's introduced to the mass market. But with that improvement sometimes comes new issues and issues can only be remedied by research, innovation and development.
I think overall, the brand has done an excellent job and I as well as many new and repeat Lexus owners trust they will continue to strive for the Pursuit of Perfection.
Just my 2 cents!

roadfrog

It'll only be the millionth time, but sure.

Look, I could care less if my 08 is less reliable than a (insert MY here). I only care that it IS reliable. In my case, mine is. When I set out to replace my BMW E65, I simply wanted something reliable and a break from walking on eggshells and the drama associated with German luxury ownership... or Brit...or American for that matter. Simply put, there is NO OTHER vehicle in the LS460 class that comes remotely close. And THAT is good enough for me. Even if I had to face ALL of the issues others have noted (bushings, etc), I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. They're minor. The engine, transmission, etc are all rock solid. The same cannot be said for my BMW's.

R Z

Lol. This has become comical. Let each individual decide the fate of their vehicle. Personally, my 08 drives like it's floating on ice, has the best sound system I've heard, and I am proud to own it. If others have issues that can't be settled here, through Lexus or a reputable service facility, perhaps it's time to move on to a "better" car.

Beep beep yeah!

roadfrog

Exactly. What humours me is what someone would consider a "better car" and trade in their LS for. Good Luck.

Speaking of the Sound System. I just had one of my partners come out to my car to listen to AWOL Nation's "Hollow Moon" video on my Vaistech enabled system. LOL....the look on their face when I cranked that ML system up..PRICELESS.

airchomper

The LSs are the manifestation of having your cake and eating it too -

If you drove a Prius, you'd only spend half as much on gas.

If you drove a Yaris, you'd only spend half as much on repairs.

If you drove a RAV4, you'd have half as much space.

And if you drove a Honda your car would be twice as loud


All things considered, the LS costs just marginally more to drive than a regular car, and costs less than every full size SUV. It's more comfortable and nicer than most homes. You can fit 4 big guys comfortably in one. And you can usually count on driving it at least 200,000 miles with basic maintenance and replacing a few wear items. And at 150,000 miles, it'll still be tighter than most cars at 20,000 miles.

I really wonder why people leave the Lexus LS family. If you like what the car is about, there's no better car available.

Doublebase

I'm going to start my own thread...Repairs done so far - is this normal? 2

Brakes (at 50k)
Recalls
Tires
Oil changes

That's it for my dreaded 07 LS460 with 96,000 miles on it. It's been more reliable than my Honda accord - and that's saying something.

Devh

That about sums it up. The LS line of cars are not flashy but that is a good thing because they age gratefully if you are willing to go the distance.

Doublebase

I thought I'd add wiper blades as well...darn things wear out like once a year on me. Lemon. Lexus should make good and recall all wiper blades ever produced.

R Z

When I had the LS430, I was so mad that I had to replace the tires at 50,000 miles. That should never happen in a Lexus!!!!

Devh

If you guys want to just see how moronic this whole debate is check out this thread below.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/for...s400-or-ls430/

Gbp

I wouldn't call the debate moronic, the thread you linked to makes the debate more nostalgic than anything else.

I think the OP brings up a good question about the number of repairs done on his vehicle within a short time period. From perusing this forum, some of those repairs see rarer than others. The compressed timeframe might be the result of deferred previous maintenance instead of the car experiencing spontaneous failures during a short period of time.

Devh

Check the date on that thread it's not even a year old. Nostalgic would be four or five year old but it would seem no matter what point in time you are in there are owners that believe their model is the best Lexus ever made without actual data to back it up or because some have encountered problems.

Gbp

Nostalgic not In terms of the thread date, but In terms of models and their model years. People did argue (and apparently stiil argue) about the merits of the LS400 vs LS430 and more recently, the LS400/LS430 vs LS460.

It's easy to overgeneralize anecdotal evidence, and there's often quite a number of subjective factors involved when comparing two cars. I'd just call these debates largely fruitless rather than moronic.

When discussing reliability before purchasing a vehicle, I look at information from sources such as JD Powers and Consumer Reports, even though I also look at individual experiences in good forums such as this one. Once I've purchased the vehicle,e, however, it's all about anecdote.

Devh

Agreed
It will only be a matter of time when there is a new kid on the block to get bashed when it has it's new model teething pains.