hf1

Cheers to everyone from a Lexus noob. I'm considering replacing our trusty 06 bmw 530xi Wagon (awd) with a used/CPO LS 460 AWD and have a few questions:

1. Do the rear seats split/fold for extra storage space? Is there an option that provides this?
2. How does the standard stereo compare to the ML upgrade? How do they both compare to the BMW's Harman Kardon?
3. Does the AWD drive/feel differently from the RWD standard model? Any reliability or any other issues with the AWD?
4. Does the (2010-12) Sport model come with AWD?
5. What are the major differences between 2010-12 and the 2013+ models? Is the 2013+ premium worth paying vs a pre-2013 with equally low miles?
6. Could any ex-BMW 5-series owners compare the LS with the 5? (I'm aware that the proper comparison would be with the 7.)

More color... Loved the BMW and would have replaced it with a newer one but BMW -- like most other European brands -- stopped importing the 5-series wagon so now looking for alternatives. Wagons are few and far between, and SUV-s are not an option, so may have to settle for an AWD sedan with decent storage/trunk space. At the same time, as I get older I'm starting to appreciate comfort in a daily driver so I figured why not go straight to the boss of comfort: Lexus. The Porsche GT3 is there for the shots of visceral and sporty on back-roads and the track.

Thanks much in advance for the help!

greg3852

1) No but there is a space in the middle to allow for things like small poles to come into the rear from the trunk.
2) ML is the LS is top of the line. I dont know about the BMW but some former owners will chime in soon
3) no idea
4)No idea
5) 2013 was the first year of the new front facade. 2012 is most likely going to be the LS with the least bugs as it was the last year before the switch to the new grille.
6) someone will come shortly

roadfrog

1. As stated by Greg, there is a pass through as seen on the 7 series BMW and many luxury cars
2. My 7 series had the HK system, so I am familiar with how good it was. However, believe me...there is NO comparison with the ML. The Mark Levinson system blows it away. It has been reviewed by car mags and audiophile mags as one of the best - if not THE best car system available. If you like quality sound like I do, trust me...don't get an LS without the ML. It is my favorite option in my car. It will blow you away.
3. I can only tell you what others have said, there is a sacrifice in both power and fuel economy. Albeit, negligible.
4. no clue.
5. What Greg said. I personally don't like the gaping spindle, but to each his own. The grill reminds me of the mouth on the monster in Predator. LOL. Google it.
6. I can only comment on the 7. Obviously the 5 will have a sportier feel....my 7 also felt sportier than the LS, but it came at the cost of so many other things. I love my LS! I also own an X5.

roadfrog

Oh....and WELCOME!

Nospinzone

Welcome to Club Lexus.

If you click on the FAQ at the top of this forum take a look at some of the threads in the first three sections. There's a lot of helpful info there.

Reference
(Register your car on the site) •Resources & Owner Manuals, Service History, Maintenance Schedule, How-To Vids
•LS460, LS460L & LS600hL Reference Guide
•Buying Advice & What To Look For 2007-2009

Misc, Professional Reviews and discussion threads of interest
•Personalized Settings
•Toyota recalls LS, other models for valve spring replacement
•Tips and Tricks you might not know about your LS
•Two buttons that most LS owners might not know about
•Tips when purchasing a CPO LS..my experience
•Japanese market Lexus LS460 boasts a host of "world's firsts"
•TopSpeed Review
•LS 460/460L Official Review Thread
•Lexus LS Wiki (Partly written by fellow CL member Encore888)
•2013 LS460/460L/600hL & F-Sport Reviews Thread
•Official 2013 Lexus LS460/460L/600hL & F-Sport thread
•Lexus LS Youtube Videos

Model descriptions differences•2007-2009 And 2010-2012 Differences
•2007-2009 LS460 option cheat sheet for perspective buyers w/pics & vids
•Two quick ways to know if the car is equipped with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
•How could you tell a radar from the front emblem?
•The easiest way to know if a LWB or SWB has air available without even opening the door
•LS430 vs LS460
•2008 LS 600hL Model Overview

hf1

Thanks everyone for the welcome and answers!

Greg, too bad about the non-folding/splitting rear seats. Looks like most large sedans (bmw 7, mb S, A8) don't have this feature. Can you even put a couple of pairs of skis through the arm-rest opening? I'm finding the extra space in my 5 wagon extremely useful on various occasions (drive to/from FL, bulky boxes, chairs(!), etc.). The 5 sedan at least has the folding/splitting rear seats as an option. I'm perplexed by the uniquely american deal that one must suffer a raised center of gravity to gain utility and cargo space (SUV's). Why?

Chris, yes, I like the Harman Kardon in the BMW a lot, so ML must be heavenly if it's an improvement from there. Though it seems that only a small % of cars have it.

Paul, I did peruse some of the well organized LS FAQ, thanks! I may be a Lexus newb, but am no stranger to car forums.

My next step is to test drive one of these babies. I've only driven an LS once, in the 90's, and remember being very impressed by how comfortable and quiet it was, though that could have been because I was an impressionable graduate student and my car then was an 86 Mazda RX-7.

Nospinzone

You can definitely put skis through the arm rest portal. However, I'm not so sure you will be able to store bulky things such as a chair. I guess you will have to figure this out when you take your test drive. Before this car I had an Infiniti Q45a and I could fit much more in that trunk than I can in my LS.

As far as the ML system, I don't know the numbers, but I believe more cars have it than not.

roadfrog

I once transported a few 2x4's through that pass-thru. LOL

hf1

. OK, anyone fit more than TWO PAIRS of skis through there?

hf1

Doesn't look that way from the 2010-12 CPO selection on CarGurus. The way to recognize ML is to look for the "Mark Levinson" inscription under the CD tray, right?

roadfrog

Correct....and on the speaker grills in the doors.

yoshirocks

Just wanted to chime in that if you found one of these cars with the executive back seat package you get nada as far as pass through is concerned which kinda sucks as the trunk is not that big either, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe if you get the rear seat upgrade package with the rear a/c you also forgo the pass through for a cool box?

You lose about 20hp for AWD, not sure if you care or not. I don't plan to drive in winter so I got a RWD, plus I'll be able to do doughnuts

hf1

Thx for the executive seats heads up.
This car would be a year-round mule/hauler and AWD is a must for the North-east winters. I can do donuts with AWD too, no problem.

GXAlan

I had a 2014 535i which I swapped for a 2011 LS460 Sport. (BMW was a lemon and I need a transportation car.)

1. No rear folding seats.
2. ML is more audiophile, but you only appreciate it with CDs. With Bluetooth, the Harman Kardon BMW is very competitive. ML has more resolution and bass but the bass is still home audio mini-monitor quality. HK BMW has less resolution but is still non-fatiguing. The LCI 5er supports Flac audio and MKV video with coding with NTFS usb drives. The Lexus does not have that level of file and codec support.

3. No comment on feel. The Ls is specifically the most reliable car on the market. You can have failures and the car has its share of recalls (though more in the 07--09 era) but you sacrifice a lot of stuff for reliabilty.

4) I believe sport + awd is 2013+

5. Dramatically improved interior and infotainment. The F sport has a rear LSD in 2013+. I believe all versions have an added rear chassis brace for rigidity. The 2010-12 Is the only way to get Sport + wood interior. 2013+ is aluminum trim only (plus alcantara). There we're improvements to the auto braking feature I believe.

6. For handling, 2011 5 series loses to LS460 F-Sport. 2014+ 5 series is equal to LS fsport. Msport 704 would beat LS. 2014+ BMW infotainment is vastly superior to the Ls. BMW led headlights are vastly superior to the LS HIDs.

LS is quieter and smoother on well kept roads. LS has better fit and finish for the wood/leather/paint. LS ML is better than the HK BMW but the HK BMW is non fatiguing/good enough. Treat the HK BMW like an JBL HLS610 or Paradigm Mini Monitor and the Lexus closer to a Revel M22/Polk LSi7.

The Lexus is infinitely more confidence inspiring in reliability. Using OBD2 reader and android app like Torque, you can see how the Lexus oil temp is ruler flat no matter how hard you drive the car.

With 55k miles, the Lexus will still dyno to 380hp at the crank. The mix of direct injection and port injection will give you the long term reliability that pure DI vehicles haven't shown.

hf1

GXAlan, thanks for the exhaustive review. Lots to think about. At this point, the largest issue seems to be the cargo capacity and flexibility. The way things are (without folding/split seats on the LS) a 2014 BMW 3-series Wagon or a MB E-class Wagon (pretty much the only decent awd wagons remaining) seem to be infinitely superior in that respect. Now that needs to be weighed against LS's advantages in reliability, comfort, and fit/finish. Tough bargain.

Btw, sorry to hear about your BMW fiasco. It seems that the Germans have been dropping the ball on reliability lately. Our 06 530xi Wagon has been problem free with 150k+ miles on the odo. Getting long in the tooth though so time for a newer, more reliable replacement.