LS460 Brake job DIY: Pt. 1
03-20-15, 08:58 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
LS460 Brake job DIY: Pt. 1
Before I begin, please allow me to say thank you for all of the feedback I've received from a few members who provided some solid information which enabled me to tackle this project. Also, I understand that there a good few other posts/threads that address this same topic, however, once I began the job myself, I found that there were a few things that weren't addressed in the previous threads.
Note: This was my very first DIY brake job, so some of the things I will be listing as issues I ran into-if you can call them issues, other more experienced DIYer's may be more abreast as to how to approach and remedy certain obstacles regarding this job as I was. This may be more of a "how-to" for people who have little to no experience with this task. I did:
1. Disengage the Park brake.
2. DID NOT remove the N battery terminal.
3. Open the cap of the brake fluid cylinder as to prevent the possibility of pressure build-up in the brake lines from compressing the caliper pistons.
To summarize why I am replacing the rotors and pads in the first place, I was hearing a thunk noise when ever going from P to R and from R to D. I took it to Lexus and they said I had 3mm on front pads and 4 on rear; new front rotors and they would/could lathe the rears. I opted to replace the rears. Lexus wanted $800+ for this job. With doing this job myself (saving money as well as learning about the car) I managed to save myself nearly $600 (from the Lexus price. An indy would be a lot cheaper).
FYI: I was NOT feeling any pulse/vibration when braking at any speed(s) and very, very, very minimal squeal. The only time I would hear squeal was when slowly backing out of my driveway in the morning when brakes were not warm, and even then, it was incredibly faint.
Part 1
This is entitled part one because last night, I was only able to complete the front rotors/pads. Being that I was doing this for the first time, I took my time to take note of (took a few photos before I even began the work) of what was where and to assure that after everything was assembled with the new items, it would look the same. I've read about a few issues where people have done the job, had a "friend" do the job or an indy do the job and the result is rattles/noises coming from the brakes. I wanted to assure no such issues upon my completion.
The job overall is NOT a difficult one. One just needs to be aware of how the springs/pins are in place on the top side of the pads/caliper, what order the springs come off and what order/orientation the springs/clips go back on.
The pad(s) pin clip/spring on the passenger side is attached to the sensor cable and does not come off unless you take it off. Since there isn't a sensor on the drivers side, the clip/spring, once removed with needle nose pliers, comes off/out easily.
The sensor on the passenger side is held on with a small clip which is attached to the inside top brake pad. Brake fluid cable and sensor cable are short and there isn't a lot of room for play, so I grabbed a near by paint can and rested the caliper on the can and let it lean against the bottom control arm.
Issue/Problem 1:
Because the steering is hydraulic, the wheel/hub is not the easiest to move, and even once its moved, it wants to shift/turn back to a straight position. I thought by pushing the ignition button once, turning the wheel then hitting the ignition button 2 more times to turn the car off, the wheel would lock in place. That wasn't what happened. So I had my wife hold the steering wheel all the way to the left while I worked on removing the caliper bolts on the passenger side.
Note: Mine where on very tight! I went ahead and purchased an electric impact wrench for $60 from Harbor Freight knowing that those bolts in particular may present an issue. I tried with a socket and breaker but just couldn't get it, as the socket kept slipping off the bolt head.
Caliper slides off easy and passenger side rotor came off with ease as well.
I personally had a snafu with lining up the bolts and screwing them back in the back side of the caliper. Not only lining up but getting them to screw all the way in. So what I did was spray some WD40 in the threads on the caliper as well as the bolts, wiped the bolts and the holes in the calipers (canned air would be great) and presto! Once I was able to line them up, the bolts went in fine.
Issue problem 2:
When trying to "slide in the new pads" as I've read before, mine didn't just "slide" in. It took some finagling and shaking around of the pad while I pushed the pad into the backside caliper. What is VERY IMPORTANT, I found, is that you need to make sure the pistons are as far pressed in as possible so that the pad has room to fit in the narrow space between the rotor and the face of the inside of the caliper, where the piston action takes place. These are NEW pads so you need a bit more space due to the pads being thicker. I simply used a c-clamp and the old pad for more piston compression. Even then, the pads didn't "slide" in but with a little back and forth wiggling and force (no pounding) it/they slide into place.
I did sand/wire brush the hub, wipe it free of debris with a cloth and apply brake grease to the hub before putting on the new rotor, as well as reused the shims and applied a light layer of brake grease to those as well. Passenger side: Completed.
Drivers side:
For some reason, turning the wheel/hub to the right and holding it there/it staying turned and not wanting to shift back straight was a bit easier on the driver's side and made the removal of the caliper bolts much easier (no assistance needed from the wife). Pin/spring/clip removal nearly the exact same as the opposite side, just remember to take note of location and orientation of the clips/springs.
Issue/problem 3:
The rotor on the drivers side was rusted onto the hub and was stuck.
I applied some WD40, generously to the area where the hub and inner area of the rotor meet and let it sit for about 5 minutes. I located a hammer (I only had the traditional house hammer, however, a heavier hammer/mallet would be more favorable in this situation for more weight upon impact to the rotor) and aggressively hit the rotor at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock, two or three times at each position. It was still a bit stuck but could shake it slightly with my hand which told me it had loosened. I repeated the same process and this time banged it from the rear side a few times and it came off.
Sand, wipe and greased hub, placed new rotor on.
What I did on the drivers side, which I didn't do on the passenger side- to aid in the ease of placing the caliper back over the rotor without excessive movement of the rotor, was I used two lug nuts and hand tightened them so the rotor would stay still. It made the installation of the caliper much easier this time around.
Applied the shims from the old pads to the new, light layer of grease, made sure caliper pistons were retracted as much as possible, wiggled the pads into place, and placed all of the clips, springs and pins back into place. Drivers side: Completed.
Placed the wheels back on, lowered it, started it and engaged the P brake and took it for a 20 minute drive. I noticed immediately the braking was enhanced and the knock/thump when shifting was gone. No squeals, vibrations or rattles. Just smooth quiet braking.
Part 2 will be this evening, or weekend - depending on how my evening goes, when I will be performing the task of changing out my rear rotors and pads.
I hope this helps anyone who may have any questions or may be leery about performing this job.
Again, thanks for everyone's help and feedback, and to reiterate, this IS NOT a difficult job at all.
Note: This was my very first DIY brake job, so some of the things I will be listing as issues I ran into-if you can call them issues, other more experienced DIYer's may be more abreast as to how to approach and remedy certain obstacles regarding this job as I was. This may be more of a "how-to" for people who have little to no experience with this task. I did:
1. Disengage the Park brake.
2. DID NOT remove the N battery terminal.
3. Open the cap of the brake fluid cylinder as to prevent the possibility of pressure build-up in the brake lines from compressing the caliper pistons.
To summarize why I am replacing the rotors and pads in the first place, I was hearing a thunk noise when ever going from P to R and from R to D. I took it to Lexus and they said I had 3mm on front pads and 4 on rear; new front rotors and they would/could lathe the rears. I opted to replace the rears. Lexus wanted $800+ for this job. With doing this job myself (saving money as well as learning about the car) I managed to save myself nearly $600 (from the Lexus price. An indy would be a lot cheaper).
FYI: I was NOT feeling any pulse/vibration when braking at any speed(s) and very, very, very minimal squeal. The only time I would hear squeal was when slowly backing out of my driveway in the morning when brakes were not warm, and even then, it was incredibly faint.
Part 1
This is entitled part one because last night, I was only able to complete the front rotors/pads. Being that I was doing this for the first time, I took my time to take note of (took a few photos before I even began the work) of what was where and to assure that after everything was assembled with the new items, it would look the same. I've read about a few issues where people have done the job, had a "friend" do the job or an indy do the job and the result is rattles/noises coming from the brakes. I wanted to assure no such issues upon my completion.
The job overall is NOT a difficult one. One just needs to be aware of how the springs/pins are in place on the top side of the pads/caliper, what order the springs come off and what order/orientation the springs/clips go back on.
The pad(s) pin clip/spring on the passenger side is attached to the sensor cable and does not come off unless you take it off. Since there isn't a sensor on the drivers side, the clip/spring, once removed with needle nose pliers, comes off/out easily.
The sensor on the passenger side is held on with a small clip which is attached to the inside top brake pad. Brake fluid cable and sensor cable are short and there isn't a lot of room for play, so I grabbed a near by paint can and rested the caliper on the can and let it lean against the bottom control arm.
Issue/Problem 1:
Because the steering is hydraulic, the wheel/hub is not the easiest to move, and even once its moved, it wants to shift/turn back to a straight position. I thought by pushing the ignition button once, turning the wheel then hitting the ignition button 2 more times to turn the car off, the wheel would lock in place. That wasn't what happened. So I had my wife hold the steering wheel all the way to the left while I worked on removing the caliper bolts on the passenger side.
Note: Mine where on very tight! I went ahead and purchased an electric impact wrench for $60 from Harbor Freight knowing that those bolts in particular may present an issue. I tried with a socket and breaker but just couldn't get it, as the socket kept slipping off the bolt head.
Caliper slides off easy and passenger side rotor came off with ease as well.
I personally had a snafu with lining up the bolts and screwing them back in the back side of the caliper. Not only lining up but getting them to screw all the way in. So what I did was spray some WD40 in the threads on the caliper as well as the bolts, wiped the bolts and the holes in the calipers (canned air would be great) and presto! Once I was able to line them up, the bolts went in fine.
Issue problem 2:
When trying to "slide in the new pads" as I've read before, mine didn't just "slide" in. It took some finagling and shaking around of the pad while I pushed the pad into the backside caliper. What is VERY IMPORTANT, I found, is that you need to make sure the pistons are as far pressed in as possible so that the pad has room to fit in the narrow space between the rotor and the face of the inside of the caliper, where the piston action takes place. These are NEW pads so you need a bit more space due to the pads being thicker. I simply used a c-clamp and the old pad for more piston compression. Even then, the pads didn't "slide" in but with a little back and forth wiggling and force (no pounding) it/they slide into place.
I did sand/wire brush the hub, wipe it free of debris with a cloth and apply brake grease to the hub before putting on the new rotor, as well as reused the shims and applied a light layer of brake grease to those as well. Passenger side: Completed.
Drivers side:
For some reason, turning the wheel/hub to the right and holding it there/it staying turned and not wanting to shift back straight was a bit easier on the driver's side and made the removal of the caliper bolts much easier (no assistance needed from the wife). Pin/spring/clip removal nearly the exact same as the opposite side, just remember to take note of location and orientation of the clips/springs.
Issue/problem 3:
The rotor on the drivers side was rusted onto the hub and was stuck.
I applied some WD40, generously to the area where the hub and inner area of the rotor meet and let it sit for about 5 minutes. I located a hammer (I only had the traditional house hammer, however, a heavier hammer/mallet would be more favorable in this situation for more weight upon impact to the rotor) and aggressively hit the rotor at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock, two or three times at each position. It was still a bit stuck but could shake it slightly with my hand which told me it had loosened. I repeated the same process and this time banged it from the rear side a few times and it came off.
Sand, wipe and greased hub, placed new rotor on.
What I did on the drivers side, which I didn't do on the passenger side- to aid in the ease of placing the caliper back over the rotor without excessive movement of the rotor, was I used two lug nuts and hand tightened them so the rotor would stay still. It made the installation of the caliper much easier this time around.
Applied the shims from the old pads to the new, light layer of grease, made sure caliper pistons were retracted as much as possible, wiggled the pads into place, and placed all of the clips, springs and pins back into place. Drivers side: Completed.
Placed the wheels back on, lowered it, started it and engaged the P brake and took it for a 20 minute drive. I noticed immediately the braking was enhanced and the knock/thump when shifting was gone. No squeals, vibrations or rattles. Just smooth quiet braking.
Part 2 will be this evening, or weekend - depending on how my evening goes, when I will be performing the task of changing out my rear rotors and pads.
I hope this helps anyone who may have any questions or may be leery about performing this job.
Again, thanks for everyone's help and feedback, and to reiterate, this IS NOT a difficult job at all.
Last edited by CRowe14; 03-20-15 at 09:09 AM.
03-20-15, 11:46 AM
#2
CRowe14 - Good write-up. But I mentioned something in my post about the $20 resurfacing that I meant to explain ... but didn't.
You don't need to whomp on your rotors to knock'em loose. There are 2 small threaded holes in the rotor hat area. Find you a couple screws that thread into them. I take the 2 screws out of my Corolla's radiator support brackets. Because these screws are the right size and thread, and they're really easy to get to on my Corolla. I hazard to guess the LS uses the same screws for it's radiator support, but I didn't bother to look because I knew right where to find them on the Corolla.
Anyway, when you thread them into the holes in the rotor cap, take a socket and turn them 1/4 ~ 1/2 turn each (once they're threaded in far enough to touch the hub). It only takes a few iterations of doing this and PING, off jumps the rotor. This is why I say that greasing the rotor / hub is not necessary. And I don't want to take the chance of slinging grease around and onto the rotor.
I'm betting these holes are on the rear rotors same as the front. And if you're going to resurface the rears, you probably don't want to be whomping them to get them off. I didn't want to whomp mine since I was resurfacing. P.S. - I like saying and typing "whomp."
7milesout
You don't need to whomp on your rotors to knock'em loose. There are 2 small threaded holes in the rotor hat area. Find you a couple screws that thread into them. I take the 2 screws out of my Corolla's radiator support brackets. Because these screws are the right size and thread, and they're really easy to get to on my Corolla. I hazard to guess the LS uses the same screws for it's radiator support, but I didn't bother to look because I knew right where to find them on the Corolla.
Anyway, when you thread them into the holes in the rotor cap, take a socket and turn them 1/4 ~ 1/2 turn each (once they're threaded in far enough to touch the hub). It only takes a few iterations of doing this and PING, off jumps the rotor. This is why I say that greasing the rotor / hub is not necessary. And I don't want to take the chance of slinging grease around and onto the rotor.
I'm betting these holes are on the rear rotors same as the front. And if you're going to resurface the rears, you probably don't want to be whomping them to get them off. I didn't want to whomp mine since I was resurfacing. P.S. - I like saying and typing "whomp."
7milesout
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igrip (08-14-23)
03-20-15, 12:20 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
CRowe14 - Good write-up. But I mentioned something in my post about the $20 resurfacing that I meant to explain ... but didn't.
You don't need to whomp on your rotors to knock'em loose. There are 2 small threaded holes in the rotor hat area. Find you a couple screws that thread into them. I take the 2 screws out of my Corolla's radiator support brackets. Because these screws are the right size and thread, and they're really easy to get to on my Corolla. I hazard to guess the LS uses the same screws for it's radiator support, but I didn't bother to look because I knew right where to find them on the Corolla.
Anyway, when you thread them into the holes in the rotor cap, take a socket and turn them 1/4 ~ 1/2 turn each (once they're threaded in far enough to touch the hub). It only takes a few iterations of doing this and PING, off jumps the rotor. This is why I say that greasing the rotor / hub is not necessary. And I don't want to take the chance of slinging grease around and onto the rotor.
I'm betting these holes are on the rear rotors same as the front. And if you're going to resurface the rears, you probably don't want to be whomping them to get them off. I didn't want to whomp mine since I was resurfacing. P.S. - I like saying and typing "whomp."
7milesout
You don't need to whomp on your rotors to knock'em loose. There are 2 small threaded holes in the rotor hat area. Find you a couple screws that thread into them. I take the 2 screws out of my Corolla's radiator support brackets. Because these screws are the right size and thread, and they're really easy to get to on my Corolla. I hazard to guess the LS uses the same screws for it's radiator support, but I didn't bother to look because I knew right where to find them on the Corolla.
Anyway, when you thread them into the holes in the rotor cap, take a socket and turn them 1/4 ~ 1/2 turn each (once they're threaded in far enough to touch the hub). It only takes a few iterations of doing this and PING, off jumps the rotor. This is why I say that greasing the rotor / hub is not necessary. And I don't want to take the chance of slinging grease around and onto the rotor.
I'm betting these holes are on the rear rotors same as the front. And if you're going to resurface the rears, you probably don't want to be whomping them to get them off. I didn't want to whomp mine since I was resurfacing. P.S. - I like saying and typing "whomp."
7milesout
Greatly appreciate you taking the time to read the thread and providing feedback. Its exactly why I posted it.
I had actually meant to ask you about what you meant in your thread when you said you took some screws from your Corolla and threaded them into the rotor/hub area...I just simply forgot and got into the mindset of tackling the job. Thanks so much for that input! I was going to resurface the rotors, but by the time I saw that you posted what you found out via O'Reillys, I had already purchased the parts.
I didn't put too much grease on the hub, merely a thin layer. The same with the shims. I didn't notice that there was much if any at all on the shims once they were removed, but I did it for precautionary measure.
And whomping is exactly what I was doing to the front rotor, but I had to be careful with my aim as I didnt wish to hit anything that wasn't meant to be smashed by a hammer (that'd be ANYTHING ON AN LS)!!!! Or any car for that matter...
Quick question though...have you jacked up the rear of your LS? If so, at what point/location did you place the jack, and where did you/would you place the jack stands?
03-20-15, 02:10 PM
#4
Since I did it one wheel at a time, I used the jack in the trunk. Especially after it became obvious that the underside of my LS did not approve of the use of the floor jack (oooops!).
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
03-20-15, 04:02 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Since I did it one wheel at a time, I used the jack in the trunk. Especially after it became obvious that the underside of my LS did not approve of the use of the floor jack (oooops!).
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
03-20-15, 04:06 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Since I did it one wheel at a time, I used the jack in the trunk. Especially after it became obvious that the underside of my LS did not approve of the use of the floor jack (oooops!).
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
03-20-15, 04:20 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Since I did it one wheel at a time, I used the jack in the trunk. Especially after it became obvious that the underside of my LS did not approve of the use of the floor jack (oooops!).
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
On the bottom of the outer sides of the car is a flange (of at least 2 layers of sheet metal). There are 2 upside down U shapes toward the front, and 2 toward the rear. In between these shapes is where the factory jack is recommended to be placed. The factory jack has a gap in the jacking pedestal. That gap is allowance for the aforemented flange. The crank rod with the scissors jack works like butter. And because it's a scissors type / continuous screw drive, there like no chance of the car descending while being held up, as long as the jack is on level pavement and the car doesn't move. Hydraulic jacks can seep pressure and let the car slowly move down, or worse ... making a jack-stand a better idea than leaving it on a hydraulic jack. Maybe not the best idea, but I did not use a jack-stand with the factory jack. I would have with my floor jack.
I recommend you snap a cell phone picture of how your jack is installed in the trunk, to make it easy to put it back in.
7milesout
Got it off!
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03-20-15, 05:57 PM
#8
Sorry. Been running around. I'm not a chassis engineer but my guess is that is related to holding the axle seal or hub onto the axle. I see you got it off. I don't think that nut needed to come off, right? Did you find bolts to work off the rotor?
03-20-15, 06:30 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I literally just completed the rear end. I infact did not remove that nut. I also searched all over my garage and tool boxes to find a few screws to that would work but couldn't find any. I found that the rears were easier to do, but the work space was smaller (ratcheting off/on the caliper bolts). Great learning experience for me and all in all, not a bad job to do.
I also took a look at my control arm bushings and they look pretty solid and in good shape. I also just shined the flashlight around marveling at all of the cables, bolts, sound deadening material, and just how solid and complex the suspension is on this car. So many integral parts that work together to achieve the ride these vehicles possess.
Thanks a great deal 7.
Brake job officially completed.
03-20-15, 07:11 PM
#10
Awesome! About how much do you figure you saved by doing that job yourself? Not only is it money saved, to me it's about knowing a job was done right and the pride in having done it myself.
7milesout
7milesout
03-23-15, 11:10 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I did have a certain pride with doing it myself, but also getting to see the underside of the car as well as the myriad of parts that come together to comprise the suspension was pretty interesting. Though not a mechanical engineer, but as you do/are, I have an engineering background and found it to be very in depth, and apparently well thought out.
One thing though:
I did finish the front without a hitch, but when completing the rears, I was getting a pop noise once placing the car in Park with the Auto eBrake on. When it was off/disengaged, I wouldn't hear it. So this morning I took it into Lexus to have the brakes inspected along with a brake flush and the guy I deal with there told me that the rears needed to be adjusted, as they were overstretched. They went ahead and adjusted all the other brakes as well. Note to self: purchase a torque wrench!
Other than that, its good to go.
Thank for all the help 7 as well as everyone else!
Great forum.
Last edited by CRowe14; 03-23-15 at 03:36 PM.
03-24-15, 07:50 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
When I went to pick it up yesterday, as soon as I got in the car, the Auto eBrake button was illuminated and I put the car in D then back in P...guess what..the noise is still there.
They charged me $70 for a brake diag fee and the noise is still there. Im awaiting a call back from the service dept, as I wish to meet with the tech who worked on my brakes and so-called "adjusted/re-aligned" my brakes and clearly explain to me what the problem was, then request keys for the 3 LS models currently on their lot for sale (an 07, 09 & 12) and see if the sound im hearing in mine can be duplicated in those vehicles.
03-24-15, 01:06 PM
#14
I didn't think about it until you mentioned it, and as mentioned before, I'm not a chassis / brake engineer. I just fiddle in those areas when needed. But it now occurs to me that the park brake in the vehicles I have had exposure to had the mechanicals in the "hat" area of the rear brakes.
Meaning (as I remember), the inside of the rotor hat was used sort of like an old school drum brake. When the park brake is engaged, brake shoes are pushed out and interfere with the inner diamater of the rotor hat.
If that's true, I would imagine when you took your rotors off the rear, that you might have been able to see the brakes in the center. Or at the very least see the shoes that would move out. Seems like you said you put new rotors on the rears.
I recall my chassis engineer (coworker) would talk about burnishing the park brakes on new cars to make them hold the car better on hills. The way our auto-button works, burnishing the park brakes should be next to impossible.
Anywho, as to your sitation, could it be the park brake (shoes) tapping the new surace on the new rotors? I wouldn't think that would make sense, but who knows.
7milesout
Meaning (as I remember), the inside of the rotor hat was used sort of like an old school drum brake. When the park brake is engaged, brake shoes are pushed out and interfere with the inner diamater of the rotor hat.
If that's true, I would imagine when you took your rotors off the rear, that you might have been able to see the brakes in the center. Or at the very least see the shoes that would move out. Seems like you said you put new rotors on the rears.
I recall my chassis engineer (coworker) would talk about burnishing the park brakes on new cars to make them hold the car better on hills. The way our auto-button works, burnishing the park brakes should be next to impossible.
Anywho, as to your sitation, could it be the park brake (shoes) tapping the new surace on the new rotors? I wouldn't think that would make sense, but who knows.
7milesout
03-24-15, 02:02 PM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I didn't think about it until you mentioned it, and as mentioned before, I'm not a chassis / brake engineer. I just fiddle in those areas when needed. But it now occurs to me that the park brake in the vehicles I have had exposure to had the mechanicals in the "hat" area of the rear brakes.
Meaning (as I remember), the inside of the rotor hat was used sort of like an old school drum brake. When the park brake is engaged, brake shoes are pushed out and interfere with the inner diamater of the rotor hat.
If that's true, I would imagine when you took your rotors off the rear, that you might have been able to see the brakes in the center. Or at the very least see the shoes that would move out. Seems like you said you put new rotors on the rears.
I recall my chassis engineer (coworker) would talk about burnishing the park brakes on new cars to make them hold the car better on hills. The way our auto-button works, burnishing the park brakes should be next to impossible.
Anywho, as to your sitation, could it be the park brake (shoes) tapping the new surace on the new rotors? I wouldn't think that would make sense, but who knows.
7milesout
Meaning (as I remember), the inside of the rotor hat was used sort of like an old school drum brake. When the park brake is engaged, brake shoes are pushed out and interfere with the inner diamater of the rotor hat.
If that's true, I would imagine when you took your rotors off the rear, that you might have been able to see the brakes in the center. Or at the very least see the shoes that would move out. Seems like you said you put new rotors on the rears.
I recall my chassis engineer (coworker) would talk about burnishing the park brakes on new cars to make them hold the car better on hills. The way our auto-button works, burnishing the park brakes should be next to impossible.
Anywho, as to your sitation, could it be the park brake (shoes) tapping the new surace on the new rotors? I wouldn't think that would make sense, but who knows.
7milesout
This is the final entry to my brake saga.
As stated above, I went to Lexus this afternoon and had him pull an 08 into the bay with mine right behind it. Only difference was my vehicle is an L and the 08 was a base. He performed the gear shifts on the 08, barely a noise at all. The only noise was the actuator sound from applying the eBrake and barely, if at all that tap/pop sound of the eBake engaging. I went through the gears on mine and the sound from the actuator was heard along with the very audible tap/pop noise, and it was noticed by the service writer, tech who worked on my brakes as well as the Master Tech.
The tech assured me that he took the brakes apart and saw nothing wrong. He said that the only issue was that the point at which the rotors pistons were pushing on the pads were a bit off, but that was it. That and retorquing the rotors.
And yes, I did see exactly what you're talking about, regarding the, what seemed to me to be a "hub behind a hub" rear brake system. Your observation and analysis are correct 7, as the rear brake system on these vehicles have a double systematic operation: drum and disc, and the drum system sits behind the disc.
In closing, the tech and MT assured me that my system works fine. I then asked why the 08 didn't do it and mine did. The tech said it could b a few things, but he attributed this factor to the fact that I have brand new breaks and pads and the 08 didn't. The change in measurement of the pads and rotors, adjustments, possibly (not likely) aftermarket rotors, but the bottom line was that they are standing behind their work and brake inspection, saying that the rear brakes perform as they should. He also stated that this ideal is reinforced because if I turn the Auto eBrake off, the sound isn't there.
He did confirm what your Chassis Engineer stated-that the ebrake system is really to reinforce the default brake system when the car is parked/left on a hill/incline, in the event the trans fails as these cars are very heavy.
But he did say the noise was from the ebrake engaging/disengaging/shifting and that all was A-Okay.