LS460 Steering Problem
03-09-15, 05:23 PM
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LS460 Steering Problem
I am new to the Club Lexus forums and this my first post. I'm hopeful that I can get some help.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
03-09-15, 05:52 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
I am new to the Club Lexus forums and this my first post. I'm hopeful that I can get some help.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
Good evening good Sir and welcome to CL.
I would first like to say I'm sorry for the issues your experiencing with your LS, that's very unfortunate.
I'd also like to say that to my knowledge, I haven't noticed an issue with my steering, but the next time I'm in the car, I will check it out, but I doubt the car favors a side. The other thing too, is that my LS is considerably older (2007), so I'm not sure if any experimentation on my end will aid you in drawing any conclusions. I see that you've taken notice that this is an issue with newer LS models as well...But I'll certainly take notice and provide feedback.
Give it a little time and you'll have quite a few detailed responses...
One other thing I'd like to mention, is that perhaps you could post your questions/concerns in the thread that's located at the top of the LS thread page:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lex...r-service-271/
I know you've stated that Lexus has looked into the issue, but for a limited time Lexus techs are answering Lexus questions.
Good luck to you.
Last edited by CRowe14; 03-09-15 at 05:55 PM.
03-09-15, 06:05 PM
#4
No, I haven't noticed this on mine. it tracks just fine without having to hold the wheel at neutral to track straight. Sounds like the front caster is off. Did they check this when they checked the alignment? Look at the values for Front Caster and Steering Axis Inclination (SAI - related to camber but can be off when camber is correct).
03-09-15, 06:20 PM
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LS460 Steering Problem
I am new to the Club Lexus forums and this my first post. I'm hopeful that I can get some help. I also posted this in the LS460 specific section, but was hoping to get some more replies here too.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
I purchased a used 2012 LS460 AWD about 7 months ago. I really enjoy the car and have no problems except for the steering. I've tried to work through my Lexus dealership as well as Lexus Customer Care, but they keep telling me "this is how the LS460 steering is designed." The dealership has aligned the car multiple times (always in alignment after the first one), checked the unibody at the collision center (checked perfect), and even replaced the rack and pinion (under warranty).
Here is the problem: The steering wheel turns more easily to the right! I know that the hydraulic pressures are electronically controlled. The “wheel return pressures” (my term) are not equal. To explain my point, if it takes 10 units (just an example force…I don’t know what it is) to turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left, it only takes 7 units to turn it to the right. Another way to explain it is if I find a perfectly flat road in town and displace the top of the steering wheel two inches to the left, it returns back to the centered position. If under the same conditions I turn the wheel two inches to the right, it DOES NOT return to the neutral/centered position…the wheel stabilizes offset to the right. Yet another way to explain this is if driving down the road and there are external inputs to the steering system like road crown, road grooves, strong wind from the left, bumps, dips, potholes, etc…and the car is “pushed” to the right by these influences, the wheel will turn to the right (and stay there because, in my opinion, the return force is not the same in this direction as it is to the left) and the car will start to steer right. Through my own experiments if you hold the wheel perfectly straight the car drives straight! It’s not an alignment problem…the car IS ALIGNED perfectly. For the last 7000 miles I’ve put on my car since I bought, I have had to hold the steering wheel neutral to drive straight down the road.
I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing. I even put brand new wheels and tires on my car and it did the same thing. I was even told that they called other dealerships and they reported back that their 460s had the same steering "feature."
460 owners: Have you noticed this? If so, any words of advice on how to fix it?
Anybody: Any other recommendations on how to get Lexus to admit this is an issue? Seems like it would be a quick Service Bulletin to update the pressures in the electronic controller in the rack/pinion.
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post.
03-09-15, 06:41 PM
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No, I haven't noticed this on mine. it tracks just fine without having to hold the wheel at neutral to track straight. Sounds like the front caster is off. Did they check this when they checked the alignment? Look at the values for Front Caster and Steering Axis Inclination (SAI - related to camber but can be off when camber is correct).
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03-09-15, 07:27 PM
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03-09-15, 09:33 PM
#9
What brand, model and size tires do you have on the car, and what psi do you run?
And welcome to Club Lexus!
And welcome to Club Lexus!
03-10-15, 10:01 AM
#10
Pole Position
Hi. Hate to hear this. My 08 seems to steer just fine both ways. I can be on the Xway crusing at 80 and it stays pretty straight on with no hands on the wheel. There has to be some factor they missed. Don't give up. Sounds like an awesome car otherwise. Good luck.
03-10-15, 10:51 AM
#11
Driver School Candidate
One of the first things I noticed and enjoyed about both the LS460s I've owned, a 2007 and a 2010, was how little effort and how few and small the corrections were required to track straight. I was ready to say that something was wrong with your car until you said, "I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing." That puzzles me.
03-10-15, 03:51 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I'm really hoping to figure this out.
If the wheel is straight, the car tracks straight. It could be straight because I'm holding it there, or I put it there and let go of the wheel. The problem is any external variable that would cause the car to turn (like road crown, bump in the road, strong wind) cause the wheel to turn right slightly and stay there. Then the car steers right (because the wheel is turned).
This never happens to the left. Even when I'm in the left lane with road bank to the left.
It is very obvious when driving straight on a flat road. If I turn the wheel an inch or two left and let go, it centers back up and continues to track straight. If I do it right, the wheel stays in the turn, without me touching it, and the car turns right.
I have Nokian Hakkapellitta R2 tires. I know they are soft. But I tried this with stock tires (non winter) at the dealership and it did the same thing.
I'm hoping somebody with a 2012 or newer can do a quick test and let me know. Two 2014s at the dealership did the same thing my car is doing.
Thanks again.
03-10-15, 07:40 PM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
One of the first things I noticed and enjoyed about both the LS460s I've owned, a 2007 and a 2010, was how little effort and how few and small the corrections were required to track straight. I was ready to say that something was wrong with your car until you said, "I test drove other brand new LS460s at the dealership and they did the same thing." That puzzles me.
This is my first LS and its an 07 and I must say that the ease at which the vehicle steers and stays straight is fantastic. Very assuring feel to the wheel while driving. Lastly, I took note today on your behalf to pay attention to how the steering handles on the expressway as well as residential roads; no issues there.
Hope you can resolve your issue and of course, keep us updated!
03-12-15, 10:19 AM
#15
Lexus Customer Service
I have conducted a search of our database to determine if this is a known issues and we did not have any information regarding this steering condition you are experiencing.
We do rely on our dealerships to provide the diagnosis for repair, as we are not technically trained to diagnose a vehicle. If they are indicating that the vehicle is operating as designed and have tested several vehicles that have done the same thing, there wouldn't be a repair suggestion.
We will document your concerns and it will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
We do rely on our dealerships to provide the diagnosis for repair, as we are not technically trained to diagnose a vehicle. If they are indicating that the vehicle is operating as designed and have tested several vehicles that have done the same thing, there wouldn't be a repair suggestion.
We will document your concerns and it will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.