CJITTY

I have owned both for at least 2 years. I prefer my 600 in all honesty. Here are just a few of my reasons. For one it's maxxed out on options. CVT transmission, hybrid instant torque, the car rides better on the highway (perhaps its the LWB or added weight, not sure) and yes, a little bit is part of it is the prestige of having the best Lexus had to offer. Do you have the comparison of repair data of 460s vs 600s? If so, I would love to see it. I'm not aware of such data readily available. The hyrbrid system has an 8/80 warranty, which is great. I am a little biased, but having owned both, I feel like I have some skin in the game to comment. I won't say the 600 is a superior build to my previous 460, but I know my 600 is a "better car" than my 460 was for reasons listed and others.

caha14

I owned my 460L for 3 years and thought it couldn't get any better than that: powerful, smooth, quiet, etc. In fact, as I took photographs to send to the dealer in the west coast that I was trading with, I kept asking myself "what the heck did I just do?" (getting into a car payment again to get the "marginal" benefits of the hybrid, CVT, additional options, etc.).

Well, the last day I felt that way was when I loaded the 460L into a truck. The 600 then arrived, and well, the rest is history. I echo the observations on instant torque and power, and even the leather smells differently (even though my 460L had semi-aniline).

The only thing (at the moment) is that I hear more road noise in the 600. However, that's likely because I need to apply the jmcraney wind noise fix to it like I had done to the other car.

Is it worth (new) the $40k more than the original owner paid for it vs. what the original owner of my 460 paid? This is subjective, and the answer is arguably 'no' by most objective measures. However, in the used market, it was a no-brainer; it really is an awesome vehicle (as is the 460 ).

7milesout

I'm not trying to rock the boat, but saying it has the power of a V-12 seems like a stretch to me. Especially when the 460 RWD & 460 L RWD have lower 0 - 60 times. Or is that RWD vs AWD? I forget ... so don't flame me! I know 0 - 60 time, and the feel of hp are not the same thing. But V-12 power? Maybe a V-9!

I imagine the 600 is more luxurious. A CVT to me sounds more appealing than an 8 speed. Sometimes when I want to go, it has to shift like 4 gears, which takes all day. Give me a 5 speed or 6 speed manual ANY DAY. Even in an LS.

I get more like 21 around town. But talking about it is useless because everybody drives differently. I look far ahead, if I know a slow down is coming, I back off the gas and let it coast. Cause it coasts so well. While Big Mama in her Ford Excursion is foot to the floor weaving through traffic and jamming the brakes for the red traffic light at the last minute. Driving styles vary too much to have much of a valuable discussion about it (my opinion). The discussions are fun ... but not valuable.

I like the 600. I'd have one. But at this time I find the additional complexity of it less desirable.

My $0.02. Let me know if I get change back.


7milesout

Devh

It's not a stretch at all. There are many V12 that has the same or lower horse power and 0-60 times as V8s. A V12 is not about power it's the quality of power you get with two inline 6 engines which is the smoothest configuration because it's internally balanced and because it can achieve a flatter torque curve. It also has more combustions per crankshaft rotation lending to an electric like motor smoothness.

The V8 hybrid can mimic this effect by adding torque from the electric motor which is what they call torque fill.
The LS600 is every bit the same or better then what a V12 is trying to achieve. It can be debated that the extra weight of the batteries holds it back but as far as power goes it has it where it counts.

CJITTY

Well stated Devh. To me, the power of my 600 shines when going from rolling about 30mph to 75 mph for example at WOT. The pedal response is instant and puts me back in my seat..when I let off the gas and I'm not in sport suspension mode, the front end of the car drops back down. My old 460 did that a little as well but not as much as the 600 does. The CVT really helps too..hard to explain to be honest but you have to drive one to really experience the difference. For being a big azz boat thats around 500 lbs heavier than a 460L or more, its fun to jam that pedal down and it surprises my passengers when I do lol

hfahmy

So, we own both 08 600 and 10 460 LWB. I drive the two cars back to back. Two very different cars. 600 has incredible thrust and feels much bigger and drives more luxurious than the 460. Also, much quieter engine. On the other hand I feel that the 460 is more nimble, 600 sometimes jerks when hybrid battery runs out while crawling through traffic on the electric motor, therefore will be less appealing to status quo drivers, wife hates it saying it is creepy because she couldn't tell it is running or not

I agree with the earlier post, won't pay $40k more new but no brainer pre-owned if you find the right one. If you really want to experience the difference, you probably need to drive one.

vinodc

hey Guys,

I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys regarding this particular car the OP listed.

Is there certain things I should look for? I know its been in an accident. I will speak to dealer to see if they have any more information regarding that.

I have a legitimate interest in the car. What concerns me is the condition of the car from the pictures. I'm sure a thorough detail can fix that, but still a concern. What would you think is a fair price?

Wandl

earlier on this thread is a carfax link showing its history (with an accident). But this car is pretty much gone, a member called over the weekend to find out someone already placed a deposit on it.
I called on Tuesday and confirmed this....its still on the lot and expected to be delivered this Saturday

vinodc

Thank you for the update. That Is a bummer, seems like quite the deal!

7milesout

I can imagine that what you describe is exactly correct. Because if I have one complaint about the LS, it's that the 8-speed is more nonesense than useful. I would take a CVT (versus an 8-speed) any day. What the 8-speed does is it keeps the rpms lower (but not lower than a CVT necessarily). Generally I find lower rpms excruciatingly annoying. But that's from my experience driving low torque engines. They are lugging doing that.

I.E. - when I "worked" at Hyundai, I drove the brand new vehicles right off the line on the test track, and out on the streets very frequently, and they provided me a vehicle allotment $, but only to buy / lease a Hyundai or Kia. So I always leased the little turds because that's all the allotment would cover, and I didn't want to put my money into thier cars (I saw how they were designed and produced, they're no Toyota). They programmed the transmissions to shift quickly and get into high gear ... because on dyno's (on new transmissions) they saved a couple drops of gas. But in turn they ruined the driving experience ... at least for anyone who truely enjoys driving and can feel what their car is doing. Those turds went around lugging everywhere. Many customers could go to the dealer and complain, and there were reflashes for many vehicles that reprogrammed the transmissions to shift higher (like switching the 460 from ECO mode to maybe like STD mode). So, I mostly leased manual trans cars. But some of those turds were geared to turn 4,000 rpm at 70 mph on the interstate. So that was a bit annoying also.

Back to the LS, the 4.6L does a great job making torque at low rpm. It does not lug. It just grunts, and actually sounds good doing it. However, if I'm going 45 mph, and I want to hit it and hit 70 mph, it takes forever to jump down 4 or 5 gears, but when it does it goes. I believe CJITTY about the CVT response. I bet it is MUCH better than the 8 speed.

My Viper ACR has only 10 cylinders (not 12). I doubt the 600h feels like my 10 cyclinder. That's why I said V-9 (yes I know there's no such thing). More than the 460, but less than a 10.

greg3852

From what I can find, the ACR has a curb weight of 3190lbs vs the 600 which has a curb weight of 5203lbs.

Just off that alone, there is no way the LS600h would feel anything like the V10 in the ACR. Unless there were 2 ACR's on the one v10..lol

I agree with the 8 speed. I hate it when I'm downshifting, but love it when I'm cruising on the highway.

caha14

This is - in my view - the key point. In addition to the instant torque of the electric motor, the CVT, by virtue of being "continuous", in essence can keep the engine in its torque band whenever you step on it, and this is what provides that nice, smooth pull. The 8-speed should - in theory - be able to do the same (with so many gear ratios), but it takes time to shift: in general, but also given the LS's hesitation issue. Even when this issue is resolved, the tranny still "thinks" a bit before acting.

Devh

One of the big issues with owners of CVT transmissions is an un easy driving feeling due to the lack of gear changes. It was so bad in the industry that they actually program the transmission computer on some of the newer cars with CVT to mimic gear changes.
I think the slow response of the 8 speed transmission is for longevity and like a CVT it calculates which gear to be in based on engine sensor data which might be right but it feels wrong from a drivers point of view.
I think the industry initially went by the numbers and now they are taking the driving experience in consideration.
Having said that I would never take a CVT transmission without fixed ratios around a track.

caha14

This is interesting. You can definitely feel one or two slight "regime" changes as the car picks up speed. I can tell that there is no shifting in the conventional sense, but it doesn't feel particularly awkward. There's also what would be best described as slippage (it actually is!) as you maneuver at low speeds with the engine running, but it's minor.

I am no expert on CVT at all. My understanding (from here, actually) is that the transmission in the 600 is built like a brick sh-- house.

Now, imagine the 8-speed in dual-clutch configuration... This was on the table at one point, as I understand it, for the RC-F. Even though it did not happen, supposedly it shifts very quickly.

roadfrog

I've driven CVT equipped vehicles twice and swore I'd bever own one. I hated how the transmission never provided any feedback and it was disconcerting. It always felt like it was in the wrong gear. Maybe they've improved them and maybe the LS is better, I don't know. My partner just finished shopping for an SUV for his parents and they ruled out all CVT equipped vehicles in their search, such as the Honda CRV, Subaru's and I believe the Mazda....for the same reasons I stated.