CPO process - tires?
11-09-14, 07:10 AM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
CPO process - tires?
I recently purchased a 2009 LS with CPO inspection/warranty. The car vibrated at 70 mph when I purchased it and they said it just needed tire balancing. After 3 attempts, including 2 road force balancings, the vibration is still there and they say it needs new tires (it has almost new Michelins on it put on by the previous owner before trade in - still have the "nubs" on them). They tell me that is my responsibility - they have no obligation to correct this or put new tires on under the CPO process. The CPO inpsection checklist requires a test drive and check for vibration. Is Lexus responsible for fixing these tires or not? If not, if I went to a Michelin dealer, would they fix the problem (under tire warranty) even though I did not purchase the tires?
Complicating this is that Lexus has replaced the windshield (had large scratch on it), rotors (brake vibration), and center console wood piece (had crack) after I purchased the car (I discovered these issues when I drove it home after purchasing it). So there stance on the tires I believe is partly driven by all the work they have already done and they are basically saying they will not do any more work on the car (for free).
How would everyone else handle this?
Complicating this is that Lexus has replaced the windshield (had large scratch on it), rotors (brake vibration), and center console wood piece (had crack) after I purchased the car (I discovered these issues when I drove it home after purchasing it). So there stance on the tires I believe is partly driven by all the work they have already done and they are basically saying they will not do any more work on the car (for free).
How would everyone else handle this?
11-09-14, 08:10 AM
#4
I recently purchased a 2009 LS with CPO inspection/warranty. The car vibrated at 70 mph when I purchased it and they said it just needed tire balancing. After 3 attempts, including 2 road force balancings, the vibration is still there and they say it needs new tires (it has almost new Michelins on it put on by the previous owner before trade in - still have the "nubs" on them). They tell me that is my responsibility - they have no obligation to correct this or put new tires on under the CPO process. The CPO inpsection checklist requires a test drive and check for vibration. Is Lexus responsible for fixing these tires or not? If not, if I went to a Michelin dealer, would they fix the problem (under tire warranty) even though I did not purchase the tires?
Complicating this is that Lexus has replaced the windshield (had large scratch on it), rotors (brake vibration), and center console wood piece (had crack) after I purchased the car (I discovered these issues when I drove it home after purchasing it). So there stance on the tires I believe is partly driven by all the work they have already done and they are basically saying they will not do any more work on the car (for free).
How would everyone else handle this?
Complicating this is that Lexus has replaced the windshield (had large scratch on it), rotors (brake vibration), and center console wood piece (had crack) after I purchased the car (I discovered these issues when I drove it home after purchasing it). So there stance on the tires I believe is partly driven by all the work they have already done and they are basically saying they will not do any more work on the car (for free).
How would everyone else handle this?
It seems that many ships already sailed. Your belief in the CPO process and the trust you have given the dealership has clouded your judgment.
When you go to any dealership you need to thoroughly test dive the car and that means taking the car on the highway. CPO cars in some cases can be a big rip off. You should also read the fine print of what the CPO Warenty covers.
If you notice anything you discover wrong with the car like a cracked dash soon after you have taken possession of the car you should have brought it to their attention immediately.
If you noticed vibration early on the dealer is suppose to rectify the problem to your satisfaction. If you wait too long then they can claim tires which is not covered on the CPO.
I still think you have a case if it was the dealership that has done the balancing. If you had it done elsewhere then that could complicate things when trying to make a strong argument.
Last edited by Devh; 11-09-14 at 08:17 AM.
11-09-14, 08:32 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Don't take this the wrong way but it seems that both you and the dealer handled it poorly.
It seems that many ships already sailed. Your belief in the CPO process and the trust you have given the dealership has clouded your judgment.
When you go to any dealership you need to thoroughly test dive the car and that means taking the car on the highway. CPO car in some cases can be a big rip off.
If you notice anything you discover wrong with the car like a cracked dash soon after you have taken possession of the car you should have brought it to their attention immediately.
If you noticed vibration early on the dealer is suppose to rectify the problem to your satisfaction. If you wait too long then they can claim tires which is not covered on the CPO.
I still think you have a case if it was the dealership that has done the balancing. If you had it done elsewhere then that could complicate thing.
It seems that many ships already sailed. Your belief in the CPO process and the trust you have given the dealership has clouded your judgment.
When you go to any dealership you need to thoroughly test dive the car and that means taking the car on the highway. CPO car in some cases can be a big rip off.
If you notice anything you discover wrong with the car like a cracked dash soon after you have taken possession of the car you should have brought it to their attention immediately.
If you noticed vibration early on the dealer is suppose to rectify the problem to your satisfaction. If you wait too long then they can claim tires which is not covered on the CPO.
I still think you have a case if it was the dealership that has done the balancing. If you had it done elsewhere then that could complicate thing.
Also, Since its not a fact that tires are the problem Michelin is not going to replace them for free. In order to find out who is trully responsible you need to fet diagnistics done and actually find the problem, once you know exactly what is the cause of the vibration Only then you can either go to the dealer and claim responsibility or to Michelin or to the Lexus warranty if any left.
Last edited by FastTags; 11-09-14 at 08:40 AM.
11-09-14, 08:35 AM
#6
Pole Position
I think part of the problem is that they already did some work for you (which cost them next to nothing by the way) and to change four tires is a different story (because that will cost them money). I'm sure they're looking at it as...we already did some work for you...this is not a safety hazard...and we are in this for profit only.
I think you'll just have to fight a little harder to get those tires put on, in the end I think you'll get what you want, but as you can see these aren't the nicest people to deal with.
I think you'll just have to fight a little harder to get those tires put on, in the end I think you'll get what you want, but as you can see these aren't the nicest people to deal with.
11-09-14, 08:42 AM
#7
I would have the suspension closely looked at. Is there anything wrong with it? One thing that you could suggest is to take one of their cars out for a test drive with a tech. After the trip around the block have them swap those tires onto your car and go on the same route and back to the dealer. Doing this will eliminate the tires and point a finger at your suspension. It's also the cheapest way to avoid changing out expensive parts.
Are all your wheels 'round'? A bent wheel can cause vibe rations at higher speed. The techs who change out tires most likely won't look closely to the rims as they spin. They just slap on the wheel to the balancer and then throw on what ever weights the machine ask for. They can balance your wheels 1,000 times but if they are not paying attention or their machine has the black safety cover that drops over the tire they will not be able to visually see one is out of round. If this is truly the case you will need to get fixed or replaced. My vote is replacement .... Rockauto.com!!!! ~$240-$250 & slap that nearly new Michelin tire back on the new rim.
I've said this before and will say it again. CPO is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to charge you more money. There is nothing different than a CPO vs non CPO car on the lot. One has been checked out and the other hasn't. Who did the inspection will greatly effect the final outcome of the report. If they do find something that is costly and on its way out who's to say they overlook to save them selves the money? We are after all talking about stealerships. Some will do the right thing most will do the more profitable one. As with anything in life buyer beware.
Are all your wheels 'round'? A bent wheel can cause vibe rations at higher speed. The techs who change out tires most likely won't look closely to the rims as they spin. They just slap on the wheel to the balancer and then throw on what ever weights the machine ask for. They can balance your wheels 1,000 times but if they are not paying attention or their machine has the black safety cover that drops over the tire they will not be able to visually see one is out of round. If this is truly the case you will need to get fixed or replaced. My vote is replacement .... Rockauto.com!!!! ~$240-$250 & slap that nearly new Michelin tire back on the new rim.
I've said this before and will say it again. CPO is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to charge you more money. There is nothing different than a CPO vs non CPO car on the lot. One has been checked out and the other hasn't. Who did the inspection will greatly effect the final outcome of the report. If they do find something that is costly and on its way out who's to say they overlook to save them selves the money? We are after all talking about stealerships. Some will do the right thing most will do the more profitable one. As with anything in life buyer beware.
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11-09-14, 08:47 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Another thing you can do is switch tires from front to back and see if that helps, it almost impossible to have all 4 bad tires. If the vibration still exists it not the tires.
11-09-14, 08:51 AM
#9
I forgot to mention an out of round wheel will not spin fast enough on the machine to be noticeable. It won't shake the machine around as the RPM's are rather slow. Your car at 70 mph will greatly increase the rotational mass and you will feel any imperfections.
I only know this because I have a bent wheel on my sports car. It's fine up to 60. I can slightly notice it at 70 and by 120 the whole car is vibrating.
I only know this because I have a bent wheel on my sports car. It's fine up to 60. I can slightly notice it at 70 and by 120 the whole car is vibrating.
11-09-14, 08:51 AM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
I would have the suspension closely looked at. Is there anything wrong with it? One thing that you could suggest is to take one of their cars out for a test drive with a tech. After the trip around the block have them swap those tires onto your car and go on the same route and back to the dealer. Doing this will eliminate the tires and point a finger at your suspension. It's also the cheapest way to avoid changing out expensive parts.
Are all your wheels 'round'? A bent wheel can cause vibe rations at higher speed. The techs who change out tires most likely won't look closely to the rims as they spin. They just slap on the wheel to the balancer and then throw on what ever weights the machine ask for. They can balance your wheels 1,000 times but if they are not paying attention or their machine has the black safety cover that drops over the tire they will not be able to visually see one is out of round. If this is truly the case you will need to get fixed or replaced. My vote is replacement .... Rockauto.com!!!! ~$240-$250 & slap that nearly new Michelin tire back on the new rim.
I've said this before and will say it again. CPO is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to charge you more money. There is nothing different than a CPO vs non CPO car on the lot. One has been checked out and the other hasn't. Who did the inspection will greatly effect the final outcome of the report. If they do find something that is costly and on its way out who's to say they overlook to save them selves the money? We are after all talking about stealerships. Some will do the right thing most will do the more profitable one. As with anything in life buyer beware.
Are all your wheels 'round'? A bent wheel can cause vibe rations at higher speed. The techs who change out tires most likely won't look closely to the rims as they spin. They just slap on the wheel to the balancer and then throw on what ever weights the machine ask for. They can balance your wheels 1,000 times but if they are not paying attention or their machine has the black safety cover that drops over the tire they will not be able to visually see one is out of round. If this is truly the case you will need to get fixed or replaced. My vote is replacement .... Rockauto.com!!!! ~$240-$250 & slap that nearly new Michelin tire back on the new rim.
I've said this before and will say it again. CPO is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to charge you more money. There is nothing different than a CPO vs non CPO car on the lot. One has been checked out and the other hasn't. Who did the inspection will greatly effect the final outcome of the report. If they do find something that is costly and on its way out who's to say they overlook to save them selves the money? We are after all talking about stealerships. Some will do the right thing most will do the more profitable one. As with anything in life buyer beware.
CPO has additional warranty, similar to extended, on engine, transmission and maybe some other things. Ofcourse it is not a bumper to bumper warranty yet its a wareanty.
Last edited by FastTags; 11-09-14 at 12:41 PM.
11-09-14, 09:12 AM
#11
Yes CPO for the most part is bul**** exept this: first of all no dealer will sell a car as a CPO if they know its bot a good car.
CPO has additional warranty, similar to extended, on engine, transmission and maybe some other things. Ofcourse it is not a bumper to bumper warranty yet its a wareanty.
CPO has additional warranty, similar to extended, on engine, transmission and maybe some other things. Ofcourse it is not a bumper to bumper warranty yet its a wareanty.
I seen several CPO cars and some of the ones except the low millage ones were less then desirable with curb rash and paint imperfections. Some of them clearly had poor body work and there were nothing in the Carfax because you cannot rely on Carfax except for known damage.
When the whole concept of CPO came out over 10 years ago the process and the selection of cars was much more stringent but now it seems as if they are marketing on name only.
11-09-14, 12:45 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
The dealership will look for cars that they can pass off as much as possible as CPO cars as far as marketing goes.
I seen several CPO cars and some of the ones except the low millage ones were less then desirable with curb rash and paint imperfections. Some of them clearly had poor body work and there were nothing in the Carfax because you cannot rely on Carfax except for known damage.
When the whole concept of CPO came out over 10 years ago the process and the selection of cars was much more stringent but now it seems as if they are marketing on name only.
I seen several CPO cars and some of the ones except the low millage ones were less then desirable with curb rash and paint imperfections. Some of them clearly had poor body work and there were nothing in the Carfax because you cannot rely on Carfax except for known damage.
When the whole concept of CPO came out over 10 years ago the process and the selection of cars was much more stringent but now it seems as if they are marketing on name only.
11-09-14, 01:28 PM
#14
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Just to clarify a few things:
* the Lexus dealer has done all the work on these tires and has diagnosed it as one or more bad tires
* they took the tires off the wheels and fixed every imperfection in the wheels (tiny dings)
* they have done a full road balance twice now to try and get them balanced
* I did test drive the car on the interstate and did not notice the vibration at that time. It was only a mile or so on the interstate. It appeared when I drove 10 miles' home on the interstate. After each balancing, it drove ok for a mile or so and then the vibration came back. Appears as though there is something wrong with a tire that reappears after driving.
* I called the dealer on the drive home and reported it and they told me that was wrong and they would fix it.
* This is not a CPO "warranty" issue (coverage after the sale). It is a CPO inspection issue which clearly states in the pre sale inspection checklist to check for any vibration when driving and fix it.
* the Lexus dealer has done all the work on these tires and has diagnosed it as one or more bad tires
* they took the tires off the wheels and fixed every imperfection in the wheels (tiny dings)
* they have done a full road balance twice now to try and get them balanced
* I did test drive the car on the interstate and did not notice the vibration at that time. It was only a mile or so on the interstate. It appeared when I drove 10 miles' home on the interstate. After each balancing, it drove ok for a mile or so and then the vibration came back. Appears as though there is something wrong with a tire that reappears after driving.
* I called the dealer on the drive home and reported it and they told me that was wrong and they would fix it.
* This is not a CPO "warranty" issue (coverage after the sale). It is a CPO inspection issue which clearly states in the pre sale inspection checklist to check for any vibration when driving and fix it.
11-09-14, 02:22 PM
#15
They tend to have a lot more window dressing on it to hide flaws and attract buyers.
The point I'm trying to make is anywhere you go including a private party for a used car it's going to be a mixed bag of unknowns which is perfectly fine. The problem is most people are under the illusion that some kind of ethical seal of approval gives them confidence about the purchase which in my opinion can mask a sea of potential dissatisfaction down the road.
Even brand spanking new cars get hit, fixed by the dealership and go unreported. I have been a party to it long ago when I worked for a dealership and they all do it and none will be the wiser except the cynical buyer who will inspect his or her car to his satisfaction and doesn't buy into the sweet talking dealer is my friend bit.
Last edited by Devh; 11-09-14 at 05:22 PM.
