Explain this to me
10-16-14, 12:53 PM
#16
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Well. Personally, I use Rotella T6 because that stuff is the bomb. Its pretty much the only oil used on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums, and in any engine that is KNOWN for oil sludge from turbo downpipes and stuff like Saab, Audi/VW 1.8T and all those.
IF. You want to see how your oil stacks up, view this thread here:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30483
IF. You want to see how your oil stacks up, view this thread here:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30483
10-16-14, 01:38 PM
#17
Even 0W-20 is too thick when cold. The relevant bobistheoilguy link is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-104/
In it you will see that you want the 0W20, and that once the oil is warm it is no different than 5W20. Every vehicle I own is using the 0W version of the recommended weight oil (0W30 in the Corvette and Denali, 0W20 in the Prius and LS460). The 0W oils meet all specifications for cars that originally recommended 10W or 5W oils. The only reason they didn't specify 0W is because it did not exist when their oil fill caps and owner's manuals were printed.
When you start your car cold (relative term, cold in this case means oil is below 100F), the oil filter is bypassed until the oil is hot/thin enough to flow through it. 10W will take longer to close the bypass than 5W, 5W longer than 0W, and so on. The bypass is a spring-loaded valve that works off a pressure differential across the filter. Additionally, the thinner oil flows faster to vital parts like VCT phasers and timing chain tensioners (the mysterious start-up rattle we hear for 1-2 seconds).
Oil film build in bearings is a hydrodynamic process that has little to do with viscosity. The thinner oils flow faster through the bearings, extracting more heat - therefore the bearings run cooler. The bearings in fact make their own film pressure, and additional oil pressure serves only to increase the flow rate through the bearing. At a given pressure, a thinner oil has a higher flow rate than a thicker oil.
In it you will see that you want the 0W20, and that once the oil is warm it is no different than 5W20. Every vehicle I own is using the 0W version of the recommended weight oil (0W30 in the Corvette and Denali, 0W20 in the Prius and LS460). The 0W oils meet all specifications for cars that originally recommended 10W or 5W oils. The only reason they didn't specify 0W is because it did not exist when their oil fill caps and owner's manuals were printed.
When you start your car cold (relative term, cold in this case means oil is below 100F), the oil filter is bypassed until the oil is hot/thin enough to flow through it. 10W will take longer to close the bypass than 5W, 5W longer than 0W, and so on. The bypass is a spring-loaded valve that works off a pressure differential across the filter. Additionally, the thinner oil flows faster to vital parts like VCT phasers and timing chain tensioners (the mysterious start-up rattle we hear for 1-2 seconds).
Oil film build in bearings is a hydrodynamic process that has little to do with viscosity. The thinner oils flow faster through the bearings, extracting more heat - therefore the bearings run cooler. The bearings in fact make their own film pressure, and additional oil pressure serves only to increase the flow rate through the bearing. At a given pressure, a thinner oil has a higher flow rate than a thicker oil.
10-16-14, 03:45 PM
#18
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The W number has nothing to do with the thickness of the oil. The W stands for winter not weight. An oils final viscosity is at temperature.
As an example a 0W-40 is thicker then a 10W-30.
It's not just about fuel savings as much as matching the cars engines viscosity with the tolerances for the kind of service the car will see.
As an example a 0W-40 is thicker then a 10W-30.
It's not just about fuel savings as much as matching the cars engines viscosity with the tolerances for the kind of service the car will see.
I've never had this hesitation after an oil change...I've never heard of such a thing, except around here. I'll be keeping a close eye on that after my next oil change - I usually use mobile 1 5w20, but I have some napa fully synthetic 0w20 laying around that I need to go through. I put a lot of miles on my car and I'm changing it so frequently that as long as it's synthetic, I don't care what brand it is. I'll tell what though, this car does not use a single drop of oil between changes. Nothing.
10-16-14, 04:16 PM
#19
I understand what you are saying, but have you ever poured ow20, and then poured 5w20? Too me it sure looks like the 0w20 flows like water, it appears "thinner". That's just my opinion opinion.
I've never had this hesitation after an oil change...I've never heard of such a thing, except around here. I'll be keeping a close eye on that after my next oil change - I usually use mobile 1 5w20, but I have some napa fully synthetic 0w20 laying around that I need to go through. I put a lot of miles on my car and I'm changing it so frequently that as long as it's synthetic, I don't care what brand it is. I'll tell what though, this car does not use a single drop of oil between changes. Nothing.
I've never had this hesitation after an oil change...I've never heard of such a thing, except around here. I'll be keeping a close eye on that after my next oil change - I usually use mobile 1 5w20, but I have some napa fully synthetic 0w20 laying around that I need to go through. I put a lot of miles on my car and I'm changing it so frequently that as long as it's synthetic, I don't care what brand it is. I'll tell what though, this car does not use a single drop of oil between changes. Nothing.
You have to understand how multi-viscosity oils work, and you should never judge an oil on feel or looks.
Every enthusiast especially those on Bobistheoilguy will tell you that not all oil is created equally and some are better then others however that is not the full story. The most ideal oil is one that is custom tailored for your engines internals and Toyota through extensive study has formulated an oil specific for the materials they use to build their line of engines.
It was speculated on Bobistheoilguy that when comparing virgin oil samples that Toyota oil does not have certain additives found in other oils that can cause corrosion to some of the engine internals Toyota uses and they found a high abundance of anti wear additives that far exceed anything Mobil one or most other competing oils have in their formulations. If it wasn't important Toyota wouldn't have taken the time to go though the trouble because anti wear additives are expensive. Another property oil geeks seem to think is one of the holy grails of great oil is a high viscosity index and the Toyota's oil is one of the highest.
The best part of Toyota oil is that it's cheaper then the boutique oils yet it performs like one.
Going with Mobil 1 oil or any other oil is just fine but why would you go with an oil that is clearly inferior to the formulation of Toyota oil.
10-16-14, 04:51 PM
#20
Pole Position
I just did the second oil change on my car just now. The oil poured in just like motor oil should. I too did not burn any oil between changes and no post hesitation during the test drive.
You have to understand how multi-viscosity oils work, and you should never judge an oil on feel or looks.
Every enthusiast especially those on Bobistheoilguy will tell you that not all oil is created equally and some are better then others however that is not the full story. The most ideal oil is one that is custom tailored for your engines internals and Toyota through extensive study has formulated an oil specific for the materials they use to build their line of engines.
It was speculated on Bobistheoilguy that when comparing virgin oil samples that Toyota oil does not have certain additives found in other oils that can cause corrosion to some of the engine internals Toyota uses and they found a high abundance of anti wear additives that far exceed anything Mobil one or most other competing oils have in their formulations. If it wasn't important Toyota wouldn't have taken the time to go though the trouble because anti wear additives are expensive. Another property oil geeks seem to think is one of the holy grails of great oil is a high viscosity index and the Toyota's oil is one of the highest.
The best part of Toyota oil is that it's cheaper then the boutique oils yet it performs like one.
Going with Mobil 1 oil or any other oil is just fine but why would you go with an oil that is clearly inferior to the formulation of Toyota oil.
You have to understand how multi-viscosity oils work, and you should never judge an oil on feel or looks.
Every enthusiast especially those on Bobistheoilguy will tell you that not all oil is created equally and some are better then others however that is not the full story. The most ideal oil is one that is custom tailored for your engines internals and Toyota through extensive study has formulated an oil specific for the materials they use to build their line of engines.
It was speculated on Bobistheoilguy that when comparing virgin oil samples that Toyota oil does not have certain additives found in other oils that can cause corrosion to some of the engine internals Toyota uses and they found a high abundance of anti wear additives that far exceed anything Mobil one or most other competing oils have in their formulations. If it wasn't important Toyota wouldn't have taken the time to go though the trouble because anti wear additives are expensive. Another property oil geeks seem to think is one of the holy grails of great oil is a high viscosity index and the Toyota's oil is one of the highest.
The best part of Toyota oil is that it's cheaper then the boutique oils yet it performs like one.
Going with Mobil 1 oil or any other oil is just fine but why would you go with an oil that is clearly inferior to the formulation of Toyota oil.
10-16-14, 05:10 PM
#21
Ever pour hot oil that just came out of the pan after an oil change (like when filling old windshield washer fluid jugs to take to the recycling center)? It is far thinner than any oil at room temperature. And that is just how the engine needs it.
10-16-14, 05:28 PM
#22
I'm no tribologist but after reading about Toyota oil I'm even more convinced that it's the right oil for this car. Toyota could have just relabeled Eneos or Mobil one oils and nobody would have even cared but the fact that they went though all of the trouble has me worried that they know something about the lack of quality of the off the shelf oils for their products.
10-16-14, 06:47 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
I just want to add that, on the back of the Toyota oil bottle, it specifically stated that it's additives are meant to work with the Toyota/Lexus VVT-I system...(or words to that effect). That alone gave me hopes that the hesitation issue would be resolved.
10-17-14, 12:43 AM
#24
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Give Rotella T6 a shot. I grabbed it while it was on sale, got the 5 quart jug for $18 at walmart, and then a single quart for $4, and then the Motorcraft FL-400S upsized filter for my LS400, and the stuff is great. much better than the **** I was using. I used that High mileage Valvoline Semi-synthetic, but after the 5000 miles, it was thick and had sludge build up. My oil filter was all gummed up and crap. im on about 1500 miles on the T6, and the engine is smoother, and the oil is still the same nice color it was, not the road tar crap the High Mile junk came out at.
10-17-14, 06:06 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Give Rotella T6 a shot. I grabbed it while it was on sale, got the 5 quart jug for $18 at walmart, and then a single quart for $4, and then the Motorcraft FL-400S upsized filter for my LS400, and the stuff is great. much better than the **** I was using. I used that High mileage Valvoline Semi-synthetic, but after the 5000 miles, it was thick and had sludge build up. My oil filter was all gummed up and crap. im on about 1500 miles on the T6, and the engine is smoother, and the oil is still the same nice color it was, not the road tar crap the High Mile junk came out at.
Rotella is known for uses in heavy duty applications such as OTR, fleet and trucks in general. It's an excellent oil and highly touted in many diesel forums I used to frequent, but not something I'll use in my Lexus. Even Shell's website says, "for use in low emission diesel pick ups". It's 5W40 is also not the right viscosity for our vehicles. Here is Shells website info on the T6 oil: http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/t6.html
I intend to stick with Toyota Syn 0W20 after my experiences and research i came across.
Good luck with the T6...
Last edited by roadfrog; 10-17-14 at 06:11 AM.
10-17-14, 06:14 AM
#26
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????
Rotella is known for uses in heavy duty applications such as OTR, fleet and trucks in general. It's an excellent oil and highly touted in many diesel forums I used to frequent, but not something I'll use in my Lexus. Even Shell's website says, "for use in low emission diesel pick ups". It's 5W40 is also not the right viscosity for our vehicles. Here is Shells website info on the T6 oil: http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/t6.html
I intend to stick with Toyota Syn 0W20 after my experiences and research i came across.
Good luck with the T6...
Rotella is known for uses in heavy duty applications such as OTR, fleet and trucks in general. It's an excellent oil and highly touted in many diesel forums I used to frequent, but not something I'll use in my Lexus. Even Shell's website says, "for use in low emission diesel pick ups". It's 5W40 is also not the right viscosity for our vehicles. Here is Shells website info on the T6 oil: http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/t6.html
I intend to stick with Toyota Syn 0W20 after my experiences and research i came across.
Good luck with the T6...
10-17-14, 06:56 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Yes I'm familiar with BITOG's obsession with T6 (and a couple of other oils including Pennzoil Ultimate). But this viscosity, (wrong) and additive package, I'll not experiment with in my VVT-I equipped LS. 
10-17-14, 07:36 AM
#28
Just because it shows a great oil analysis trend in other cars means squat. The fact that it's too thick will reduced the efficiency and power of the car not to mention it may not play nice with the small passages of the VVT channels.
Bobistheoilguy is a good source to understand oil but it's full of speculation and you have to read opposing points of view as it can go either way.
If you run it in a LS400 or LS430 I'm sure it would be fine however I would still run something a little less thick unless the engine is so old that it starts having mild consumption issues.
10-17-14, 07:49 AM
#29
Give Rotella T6 a shot. I grabbed it while it was on sale, got the 5 quart jug for $18 at walmart, and then a single quart for $4, and then the Motorcraft FL-400S upsized filter for my LS400, and the stuff is great. much better than the **** I was using. I used that High mileage Valvoline Semi-synthetic, but after the 5000 miles, it was thick and had sludge build up. My oil filter was all gummed up and crap. im on about 1500 miles on the T6, and the engine is smoother, and the oil is still the same nice color it was, not the road tar crap the High Mile junk came out at.
1. If you run any oil even the cheapest Walmart brand Kendal oil you should not see sludge. Sludge is build up that occurs overtime and can be the result of a chemistry issue like if you have coolant weeping into the oil from the head gasket. It could also be a result of the PCV valve not operating correctly and trapping blow by contaminants.
2. The oil filter size has very little to do with the efficiency of trapping particles. A filter that is designed for any car will have enough capacity for the service life of the oil change interval and if it ever gets exceeded it will be bypassed. Most people never reach that point.
Using an oil filter that is not designed for the application can change the oil by- pass setting. This may not be realized however when the oil is to be by-passed it will be delayed when the car is under load. Not knowing the by-pass setting can shorten the life of the motor.
At one time I did use a larger filter for an application that was recommended to me from people on a forum but come to realize that it was bad advice with just the rational that bigger is better.
Last edited by Devh; 10-17-14 at 07:52 AM.
10-17-14, 08:50 AM
#30
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There are two things here.
1. If you run any oil even the cheapest Walmart brand Kendal oil you should not see sludge. Sludge is build up that occurs overtime and can be the result of a chemistry issue like if you have coolant weeping into the oil from the head gasket. It could also be a result of the PCV valve not operating correctly and trapping blow by contaminants.
2. The oil filter size has very little to do with the efficiency of trapping particles. A filter that is designed for any car will have enough capacity for the service life of the oil change interval and if it ever gets exceeded it will be bypassed. Most people never reach that point.
Using an oil filter that is not designed for the application can change the oil by- pass setting. This may not be realized however when the oil is to be by-passed it will be delayed when the car is under load. Not knowing the by-pass setting can shorten the life of the motor.
At one time I did use a larger filter for an application that was recommended to me from people on a forum but come to realize that it was bad advice with just the rational that bigger is better.
1. If you run any oil even the cheapest Walmart brand Kendal oil you should not see sludge. Sludge is build up that occurs overtime and can be the result of a chemistry issue like if you have coolant weeping into the oil from the head gasket. It could also be a result of the PCV valve not operating correctly and trapping blow by contaminants.
2. The oil filter size has very little to do with the efficiency of trapping particles. A filter that is designed for any car will have enough capacity for the service life of the oil change interval and if it ever gets exceeded it will be bypassed. Most people never reach that point.
Using an oil filter that is not designed for the application can change the oil by- pass setting. This may not be realized however when the oil is to be by-passed it will be delayed when the car is under load. Not knowing the by-pass setting can shorten the life of the motor.
At one time I did use a larger filter for an application that was recommended to me from people on a forum but come to realize that it was bad advice with just the rational that bigger is better.
this is why I wont use that oil again. The T6 is still a beautiful color. Smells good too. no char, no oil, no coolant, no nothing. My baby only has 170k and that gummed up crap tried to hurt her.
I could see the difference considering the 460 has VVT-i and mine does not. However! I like my 400 without it lol my car can eat the timing belt and not bust up the engine. Hopefully the LS600HL has a timing chain... But there I go on random tangents.
Maybe when I have a newer LS I will spring for the toyota oil... but the LS400 will get T6 until then... I might switch back to the other filter because using almost 6 quarts of oil to get the level right was kinda weird for me.