SW17LS

Then purchase the inline 6 version. If you can't afford a 535 and you want the straight 6...get a 335. Difficult to do? You simply tell the dealer you want the 335 or the 535 You make it sound like the 6 cyl BMW is rare and thats absolutely not the case.

Nobody else even offers a straight 6 in these segments, so if you're abandoning BMW...who are you moving to?

Devh

It's not the question of affording, its the question of paying an unnecessary premium. I would never compromise to get smaller car to have an inline 6 and I would not compromise having a inline four to have a midsize. I'm also not interested in turbo charging as I prefer naturally aspirated cars.
I abandoned BMW for other reasons but my point is what they are selling now for their current line up that 85% of BMWs owners purchase is less then what they were.
Although there are no other inline 6 competitors, paying an unnecessary premium to get one from BMW takes it out of contention entirely.

Devh

Let me give you a better example of my rational and outrage. I would feel the same way if the new LS base engine was a V6 and the optional engine for a sportier exuberantly expensive version was a V8 twin turbo.
If the V6 engine had the attributes of smoothness and power characteristics of the V8 I would have no room to argue, and would gladly make that compromise but if it didn't I wouldn't buy it.
I gave the inline 4 BMW a chance and to my disappointment it has all of its power up top and on the boil which is not what I wanted.

SW17LS

You have to understand though that the world is changing, both in what carmakers can achieve and must achieve (i.e. CAFE standards) and what buyers want. You said it yourself, 85% of BMW purchasers are in the 4cyl. Why is that? Because they have selected the 4 Cyl car. Nobody held a gun to their heads, the 6cyl is there and available. To them it wasn't worth the premium in price or the loss of economy over the 4 cyl...in short...the 4 cyl was what they wanted. Its the same way with the 6 vs the 8. Why did Lexus discontinue the GS460? Because nobody wanted the car...buyers were perfectly fine with the 6. Kudos to Lexus for bringing the 8 back in the GS-F...but note they're doing it in a special, limited run special edition just for enthusiasts...because those are the only people interested in the V8.

Will the next LS have a V6 standard? My guess is yes. Everything else in the segment does...and for most buyers in the segment, its all they want. They want the better economy the 6 provides, and its the same with the midsized segment...they want the better economy the turbo 4 gives them. Having driven a 2.0T CTS as an example...I'd consider it. I would likely be an LS buyer next time...would I pay more for the V8 LS vs a V6 LS? Probably not.

The times are changing...you make it sound like carmakers are forcing this on people...what you fail to realize is this is what people want. Economy is important to people nowadays.

Devh

Although I agree that the 4cyclinder efficiency numbers is what people gravitate towards I don't believe most BMWs buyers understand the compromise or even care, so I agree with you in that aspect but I don't believe buyers specifically wanted a four cylinder. Most car buyers are about name brand recognition and status, and it's sad but I think just about everything we purchase today is based on using brand recondition as a marketing strategy. The foundation of the good brands was based on offering quality products that people enjoyed and recommended which brought them success but now it's used mostly in name all the while cutting corners and offering less value.
It's perfectly fine if BMW wants to offer an inline four but it should be better or at least equal to the inline 6 in many respects which it is clearly not.
I understand that BMW as well as other manufactures have their hands tied but there is no reason as a consumer to purchase a lesser car.

SW17LS

I agree nobody specifically wants a 4cyl, what they want is the efficiency...and the only way to get to that efficiency is with a turbo 4 cyl.

I just don't see the issue when if you want that 6 cyl its available for you.Yeah you pay more, but you're getting more than you were getting from the smaller displacement 6.

The 4Cyl car is lighter, crisper handling. There are other benefits. To say that the car is no longer worth anything but as a vehicle with a badge because it has a base 4 cyl instead of a base 6 cyl is ridiculous,

Devh

There maybe other benefits that is worth taking that into consideration but in regards to the BMW specifically there was none and it was clearly downgrade.
Whatever crisp handling that a inline four brings to the table in regard to less polar inertia could not be appreciated and a large part of it was a shift to electric assisted power steering. The car was a complete downgrade and the engine was primarily the reason. The only advantage was the millage. If someone offered to sell me a $50 fully loaded corolla I wouldn't rationalize it as a change for the times. What auto makers should be doing is making their next iteration better then the last one. efficiency is one consideration, not the only one.

SW17LS

LOL. Carmakers are in business to make money. This idea that carmakers should do some altruistic thing and make all of us exactly what we want is silly. Like any company that offers a product they look at the landscape and they build a product that they can sell to the consumer for the most while costing them the least. Thats business. BMW sales are up, not down...so who are you to say that their direction is the wrong direction?

The bottom line is that efficiency is one of the very highest considerations for many many buyers in 2014, thats going to become more important to people, not less important. CAFE standards make these kinds of compromises even more vital to ensuring long term success. Electric power steering...thats because of efficiency. You're saying BMW should just ignore what will likely be the most important consideration for buyers of the future because the small number of enthusiasts don't care about it? How does that make business sense?

The vehicle you want from BMW still exists...its just not the mainstream entry level model because what is important to you is not what is important to the majority of their buyers in 2014, and because going forward volume is going to have to equal as efficient as is possible. Your argument is that BMW has abandoned you because the car you want just isn't the entry level car they sell any longer...to me that just makes no sense.

Be happy they still make cars with inline 6's and V8s etc...they could cancel them and probably be even more profitable...but they want to keep them in place for the enthusiast to whom they matter.

Devh

The discussion at hand is beginning to be more or less a straw man argument on defending BMWs direction.
Car manufactures can make whatever they like, that is their business and I have absolutely no control over it but I can have an opinion to justly trash the brand from what it was to what it is now for my expectations. I'm not about to protest outside BMW head quarters like some kind of union worker expecting benefits.

If Toyota wants to charge $50k for a fully loaded Toyota Corolla that is fine also. I don't really have a say in how someone decides to run their business but as a consumer they don't have a say on how I should appreciate their car or have to justify paying significantly more to enjoy the same level of car. I can take my business elsewhere or not at all if they no longer offer what I need for the value I'm willing to pay for. If others want to be downgraded to a three cylinder engine that it just fine. Maybe if it's going to be such a success they will give their customers just enough AC so they only sweat a little. As for me I'm deeply disappointed with their offerings.

SW17LS

If the market will bear that price, then they should.

If gas prices get to be $6 a gallon or so in the US...they just might.

I just don't understand since they still make a straight six car. If you want a straight six BMW...its there...its just no longer the default option. To me thats just being a martyr.

Devh

That same straight 6 turbo engine car they offer now is roughly the same engine they were offering then and it was a different car package altogether. It was the car I didn't want for the obvious reason that I didn't need the additional power or options that came with it and it wasn't value I was looking for. It's not the same entry level BMW car. Its the same argument a few posts back if Lexus LS still offered a V8 but it's only found in their premium model with twin turbos and a hefty price tag and everyone else gets downgraded to a V6 version.
With the GS we can say that the V8 was the premium option from the beginning and the 6 was always the entry level so if they axe the V8 no foul.

If they had the same base inline 6 offerings and decided to introduce a more fuel efficient option that had a four cylinder engine then that would be different. Actually in Europe they were doing so but not in the US.
I'm not saying it's a bate and switch but they simply do not offer the same entry level car you come to expect from a luxury car maker and that is the point of my argument.

Tdvlexo

iTrader: (1)

I have read somewhere (forgot where), I don't know if there's any truth to this but what I read that the 2016 or 2017 LS 460 maybe having a v8 twin turbo power plant. Don't qoute me on that but I did read it somewhere, in my opinion I think that would be nice.

SW17LS

I just completely disagree with the idea that a turbo 4 is not "what one would expect from a luxury car maker". Its the same sort of car, the engine simply delivers more power and efficiency from less. If you look at performance figures, the new 528 out performs the old 528 with the 6. The Turbo 4 is no cheaper to produce than a NA straight 6. Its been a while since I drove the BMW 4 but I did recently drive the 2.0T Cadillac CTS and thought it was very smooth and responsive even compared to the V6 in my GS.

There was a time that the BMW 7 came standard with a V8...it doesn't anymore, nor does the A8, nor does the XJ, so on and so forth. But, the V6s in those cars perform better than the entry V8s while delivering better economy. The V6 in my GS is more powerful and efficient than the V8s that were in our LS400 or LS430.

Devh

If they offered a car with less cylinders or a different configuration that you couldn't tell the difference or it exceeded it from a driving standpoint then I would gladly welcome that compromise. I would even make that compromise if they had a one cylinder engine by some miracle of technology can give me the quality of power that I find in a BMW inline 6 I would welcome it but the reality is they don't and its not possible.
Hopefully if BMW goes hybrid or electric they can add torque fill.
The BMW inline four turbo is not a bad motor but it's characteristically similar to a classic inline 4 you find in other makes. The turbo has lag, not smooth and the power delivery is not in the least flat. It may have more power but it doesn't have quality of power I have come to expect from BMW offerings especially at the entry level price. If a reduction of cylinders is one manufactures approach that's perfectly fine but I'm sure the other manufactures understand the design goals and how they cannot avoid additional cylinders to meet its target specifications in regard to quality of power for the price point they are demanding.

SW17LS

Look at the turbo lag in a 535 lol