ctatum7

I guess reading some of this, I should be looking at a Kia or Hyundai, instead of a LS 600h L.

Devh

Here is the kicker, it didn't take Lexus 20 years to make a big impact and established leader in the automotive world .
Toyota may have studied what makes a luxury car by evaluating MB, BMW and Cadillac but they did not copy them, they emulated them which is a different concept.

Toyota's ambition and dedication was so far ahead of its time that they found the other industry leaders bought LS400s and had them dissected because they could not understand how they could produce this level of automobile at this price point.

Toyota has a real identity which is Japanese luxury, not European and it is mostly emphasized in the current LS which uses Zen elements and doors that close like wood.
Every time I see my Niece's Yamaha piano it reminds me of the quality of walnut that is furnished in my LS.
It's the real deal and it's built right with dedicated workers.

Bolosdad

I look at car models like this... If I see old models of the car still driving around in good condition then it's a good car. howmany ford tauruses do you see? Dodge? A lot of old 3 series BMW's still around but not the 745's, old S class a few here and there. Lexus LS series i've seen plenty around and still clean. father in law has a 2010 s550 and a old 94 s500 with busted air ride struts which cost over 4k to replace. Currently the LS gives me the best style and reliability for the value. Admittedly I had my eyes on the s550 but all my researching and carfax checks left me uneasy like as if I was taking a crap shoot.

williakz

Story told well here...

Soldier76

I don't know how you drew that conclusion, but I truly think you should test drive the cars for yourself, then make a decision. The quality in a Lexus is noticeable throughout the inside of the cabin, and you'll see for yourself why the LS is highly coveted or desired by so many people. On the other hand Hyundai & Kia are no slouch, but you can see how they cut corners to make the cars more affordable. With Lexus you get a long history of reliability and overall customer satisfaction. With Kia and Hyundai you get affordability and an outstanding warranty to back up their product.

7milesout

Very interesting thread. I guess because I would consider myself sort of an expert here. I say that never, except in this case.

I spent 5 years working as a Design Engineer for Toyota. I worked in Ann Arbor, MI. I even spent some time working on the 480N, which is the RX 330. I think it was called RX 330. We went by the prototype codes. It was the first Lexus built in North America. Built at TMMC, Canada.

I loved working for Toyota. I loved their products. From the entry level Echo (at that time) to the flagship Lexus LS. I bought a couple vehicles while there. A 2000 Toyota 4Runner. It was the best vehicle I think I've ever owned. 5 speed, 3.4 Liter I think it was. Great vehicle. I sold it with like 98k miles. I never touched the brakes or tires. Yes, it was on the original Michelins. They wore even, stayed balanced, the front end stay in good alignement. Yes, the tires were in need of replacement, but my argument was that I would rather the new owner choose the tires they wanted, instead of me. Sold it for $14k, in 2006. I paid a skosh under $20k. It was on a 1 year lease from a coworker, that got turned back in and I tagged it. Loved it. I cried when we sold it. We had our 3rd son, and 2 in car seats, one in a booster, and it just wasn't working out. Bought a Honda Odyssey ever since. It's a good tool, but I miss the 4Runner.

I also bought a 2004 Corolla, I still have it, and it has 180k miles and running like a champ. 5 speed, the wife is currently using it and PILING on the miles. It is a great car, and I don't mind leaving the LS in the garage and driving the Corolla. Wind noise like hell though.

The wife was not happy in Michigan (I was), so I took job with the Hyundai Tech Center across town because they were going to relocate me down to Montgomery Alabama to work as their design engineer interface there. Without going into any detail on that experience let me say this:

I have purchased zero Hyundai products. I just purchased my LS. I have no plan to purchase any Hyundai products. Hyundai owns Kia. Hyundai purchased Kia in 1999. Chairman Chung subsequently assigned his son to head Kia. Did I mention I have never purchased a Hyundai vehicle? I was also provided a company car, which was either a Hyundai or a Kia.

Based on my experience working at the plant, driving the company vehicles, sort of training with the Hyundai engineers, including in their huge and highly advanced technical center, in Namyang, South Korea ... I elected NOT to purchase any Hyundai vehicles. I don't know if I've mentioned that or not.

I have a patent with Toyota, I have a patent with Hyundai. And I have a patent with my current employer (not automotive). Many of the things being mentioned on here about Hyundai are wrong, but I'm going to let it go ... at least for now.

I left Toyota with 9 years engineering experience. After 7 years of experience with Hyundai, I left there with a total of 2 years of engineering experience. I went back to entry-level.

I have been working very hard the past 3 years at my current job, and have also been undergoing shock therapy to put the 7 years of Hyundai out of my mind. I just admitted to my closest friend (who escaped Hyundai after only 4 years) that I believe I have learned how to work hard and think like an engineer again. I cannot forget those traumatic 7 years of my life, but I can say it no longer negatively affects my daily work attitude. Thanks to the shock therapy and whiskey.

I'll say I LOVED working with Toyota, and the Japanese. They ARE #1 not because they are great engineers (which they are great / outstanding engineers), but my opinion is because they are ABSOLUTELY TOP NOTCH BUSINESS engineers. Their business is to sell cars. So they are 100% committed to making a product that a customer will be proud of, and will want another. They are 100% committed to not waste time, energy or money on ANYTHING else. I'll leave it at that, because from the day I turned in my notice, my heart has been broken. I did it to make the wife happy. I won't make that mistake again.


7milesout

Devh

Great read. Thank you.

CRowe14

Wow. Just wow. Scintillating read.
Regarding your career: Best of luck, as it seems you possess desire, determination as well as class.
Thank you.

Soldier76

Excellent read. I've owned a 2009 Hyundai genesis sedan 4.6, a 2011 Hyundai genesis 4.6 (fully loaded), and a fully loaded Hyundai sonata hybrid, and I agree 100% on Lexus building a product that their customers would be proud of.

GXAlan

Cough. Except for the navigation lock out as soon as the car starts moving....

Lexus would be 100% if it did that (plus upgrade infotainment).

R Z

I just found a copy of The Relentless Pursuit on line. Look forward to the read.

I'm no historian, but I recall watching tv one night back in 89ish. There was this new car commercial. It got my attention. It was the Lexus LS400. A first for it's time. A high end Japanese car. I knew I had to have one. But of course, being the cheap SOB I am, I waited. However, my father-in-law got an 89 as soon as they hit the door. His was a black green. I'll never forget tha first time we went over to see it. He made sure we came in the dark. He walks out with his flashlight and points it to the car. "See, it looks black, but it's green!". It was the sweetest most luxurious car I'd ridden in. Nothing against German engineering mind you, but this Japanese vehicle was superb. Like most of the fine working electronics in my home, the Japanese focus on perfection.

From what I've read, when Kia and Hundai came out, they just threw cars out there. The son decided to go luxury. I've only ever glanced at an Equus while pumping gas one day. The owner was very proud of his car and let me sit in it. I have to admit, it's pretty nice. I believe these two car manufacturers now want to compete with the likes of Lexus. I think they'll succeed. For me, ever since I got my first Lexus, the ES300, I knew, my big ole butt would only adorn a Lexus seat. Since 94, it has.

Doublebase

I think kia and Hyundai make some of the nicest looking cars on the road today and their flagship cars certainly fall into that category. I do think reliability won't be much of an issue, but there are plenty of parts on these cars that are cheap. Take a look inside...although it may look nice, I can guarantee that the ***** and switches will break or wear out a lot sooner than they should. The seats will wear out, the headliner will start falling down, the thing will start rattling and sooner than later you will feel like you are driving in a car that is low quality. And the outside won't be far behind...body moldings will sag, quarters panels will be rotting out near the wheels and all sorts of fluids will be leaking from under that thing.

Soldier76

Unfortunately the ***** in my 2 genesi volume kept breaking off, and also the leather started to wear on both as well, but what really annoyed me most is that all 3 of my Hyundai's front windshields would fog up in inclement weather, and I'll have to keep turning on the defogger every few minutes to clear it up. Or I'll just end up leaving it on. I wonder if Hyundai fixed that issue in the 2015 models.

7milesout

Soldier - I worked at the Hyundai plant in Montgomery, AL. And that was one of the common complaints that we received from our customers. Keeping that windshield clean was the only defense. But the root cause of the problem was the chemicals released from the CPM (****-pit module) basically the dash, from the use of C.A.M. (cheap --- materials). The Hyundai way. But the stuff would build and the fog would return rather quickly. Heck, some customers would have fog build on a bright sunny day with the windows down. Hyundai - Drive your way ... with the windows fogged up and multiple taillight / brake lights burned out, and a very stinky headliner.

That's another story. Got complaints about poor smells in the interior. Yes, a bunch of us engineers that actually cared about fixing things got in new vehicles and sniffed everything. Everything was OK, but the headliner. Could have been the sunroof sunshade, can't remember. But right off the line, the thing stunk, in a bitter way. Since it required a cost up of more than $0.00, nothing was done about it.


7milesout

CJITTY

This is some great intel...interesting!!

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