caha14

Of course, it's the typical asymmetric information/lemons problem; you can't quite communicate this unless the buyer knows you. My (hypothetical) point is that this need not be a killer if the work is done right, but precisely, Wayne has no apparent way of knowing.

Pamperme

Whew. Good to know. Thanks for the info.

waynedog

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am going to pass on this car. I am still surprised the Lexus dealer is marketing this car as a "clean" CPO car. I also asked them to send me all the work that was done in the CPO inspection/repair process. They did and it only had basic maintenance items. Then I pulled the maintenance history from Lexus.com and it shows body work, paint work, and dye work done in the past few days. I asked the dealer to explain this and they gave me the run around saying this is "normal" clean up and not part of the CPO process. I am concerered about the integrity of this dealer.

Ascari_2

Run and don't look back. May also want to post here to let others know to avoid this car. Looks like there are always a few potential buyers lurking around.

Devh

Let me give you a little tip based on my own experience. CPO cars are overrated. Not all dealerships but a good number of them that do the certification process and they often rush it. Many of the cars that are bought and sold though the dealership as CPO especially after a lease are sold though auction. There is nothing wrong with an auction car, that's just the way the industry does things though the wholesale process. The cars they don't sell are the ones that have structural damage, flooding and rebuilt tittles however accidents and major engine repair are not off what they can bring up to CPO standard. Their process involves a refresh of the wear items if it is more then 50% on items like brakes and tires. Then they package it with a warranty for piece of mind that you are buying it from the dealership and dealing directly with them which isn't a bad thing but it's very expensive. Carfax can also be absolutely useless in states like mine do not have an obligation to report.

They will then do some internet pricing scheme and generally will not budge much on the price.
I have been though this before with several dealerships and you cant win when there are many that overpay and believe the dealership tactics. I got frustrated and ended up buying a 2011 SWB with only 20k miles for $39k in November. It was 10k less then what the dealerships were offering me on a 2010s with over 40k miles. I still have rest of the factory warranty for a year and a half on top of everything else.

swirvin

Agree 100%

When we bought our CPO back in June, they claimed market pricing and would not budge. I normally would walk away at that point but my wife was in lust over the car and we could afford it so I folded like a lawn chair and made the deal reluctantly. Of course you already know the rest of the story from previous threads...

Just curious did you end up buying from a lexus dealer or what?

Devh

What I'm going to tell you is the loop hole nobody wants you to know. Your KBB, Carfax and other internet research tools are made for the industry not for consumers. The dealer networks have gotten so smart that they use their own industry supported research tools to gain your confidence and control the pricing so you overpay. It's so bad now that it has reached in all areas including private transactions. The people that are most susceptible are college educated folks.
You cant beat the system, they are well seasoned in anticipating the buyer and the only time they will be desperate to sell is because a car has been sitting too long.

There is a loophole in all of this and that is the Carfax system. Cars that are chosen for CPO are usually cars that have a clean Carfax which is the uncertain variable. Cars that have been flooded or have structural damage are already reported on the title as rebuilt. I have several cars that have been in accidents and they have not been reported on the carfax where as cars in neighboring states have this information in the Carfax report. Carfax is unreliable but it's still a useful tool if you know how to use it to your advantage.

I went to one dealership and found a CPO car that was bought through auction by a company that sells off leased cars then sold to my local dealership.
I did some internet searching and found the place that sells directly to customers as well as dealerships. I looked over their inventory and was pleased with the prices. Keep in mind that their prices are adjusted based on any reported accidents from Carfax. Their margins are small but they move many cars to make up for it and they are straight forward. Don't expect them to demonstrate the car for you on a test drive.

Dealerships will always choose cars that have a clean Carfax report to run through the CPO process. You don't really know if the car has been in an accident. Quiet frankly cars get into accidents all the time however with a state that doesn't do any active reporting you will never know how bad the accident is. The dealers selling point is the Carfax proof which is unverifiable unless you get a good body man to inspect the car.

Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with buying a car that has been in an accident. Most body shops especially working on new expensive luxury cars will do great work and spend a premium to get the car back to original condition. So in a nutshell if you choose a car that has been in an accident and has been reported in the Carfax as being somewhat minor you can make off with a great value. If you know where the car was hit you can then judge for yourself how well the damage was repaired on close inspection and save yourself a lot of money. My car has a minor hit and I inspected the damage thoroughly and it was repaired very well and I could not see any paint blending or misaligned panels because I suspect that the whole front bumper was replaced with a new one.
If I ever have to sell the car to a private owner I can show him the Carfax and where the damage has been repaired to gain his confidence so it should not be an issue.

williakz

Yeah, good luck with that buyer. Be sure to let us know how it goes...

Devh

I have always had good luck with my disclosures even when the car I have does not show any accidents on Carfax. I believe in honest selling and I sold five cars in the last decade letting the owner know when asked if the car was in an accident. I showed them where the car was hit and how I made sure the job was done right. I also let them know that I was the one that has taken care of all the maintenance. Because I take care of my cars they are in presentable condition, exterior, interior and mechanically sound. That is what sells the car not some clear carfax report and trying to be slick. Potential owners pick up on your candor and if it is not in order you will come off as greasy as the dealer that sold you a car with a questionably history.
But I digress. My LS will be around for a very long time that even if that accident lowers the price it will only be a few hundred bucks not the thousands I have already saved.

williakz

The crux. Crunched cars = diminished value. The calculus determining the amount of the dimishment is nebulous as it is time-variable, non-linear, and somewhat subject to personal interpretation (or salesmanship, honesty, or whatever). The FACT is that anyone buying a vehicle that has been wrecked is taking a major financial risk. Certainly, that risk can be minimized; it cannot be eliminated.

Devh

Carfax does not guarantee the car hasn't been in an accident only that it's not been totaled and salvaged. You can still buy a car that has been wrecked and you wouldn't know it because of ones misguided faith in Carfax. When it comes time to trade in your car into that fraudulent nexus they don't care about your cars clean Carfax history. They will take it out back and run it through the ringer and diminish it's value. After they spray it all down with vinyl dressing they will show the potential new owner a clear Carfax report.

The most important thing in all this is that it's ok to purchase a car with minimal known damage.