nlk10010

Hi, I've currently got a 2011 BMW 550ix but am looking for a change and decided to consider the LS460.

Naturally, I gravitated to the F-Sport AWD model but don't know how available they are. I went into my local dealer and asked about it and was met with a look of confusion by the rep. After conferring with his "superiors" (and I use the term loosely) I was told that these are "extremely rare". OK, I'm used to that kind of response, maybe true, maybe not but I understand it IS a distinctly low-volume model. However, I was ALSO told that Lexus doesn't sell the AWD model in the NY area. Good grief! Really??? I know dealers will lie to your face without blinking, but this seemed beyond the pale.

Anyway, what experience DO people have with availablility of the LS460 F-Sport?

Thanks much for any info.

greg3852

First thing I would do is not go back to that dealer. Second thing I would do is check out auto trader, and the classifieds here. I found with these cars you have to be open to travel to get the exact model you want. Its just the nature of the beast with such expensive cars.

Oh and welcome!

Here is a quick one I found on auto trader, but I'm sure there are more

LexFather

Dealer sounds like an idiot. Lexus allocates most AWD cars to the Northeast region. He is correct in saying the F-sport is rare and more rare in AWD form. You might have to order one if you cannot find one you want.

I checked Lexus inventory using a NYC zip and see 4 AWD F-sports, 2 black, 2 graphite.... I had to order my white F-sport (RWD) and I LOVE the car.

nlk10010

Yes, well, I knew the dealer guy was an idiot but I wasn't going to argue with him. Just walked out.

Today I went to another dealer (next closest to me, on the South Shore of LI) and the guy had a black 2014 F-Sport which I promptly took for a test drive. He also had an Ultra White F-Sport in the showroom, but it was a 2013. Wifey prefers the gray, which the dealer said he could bring in if I wanted it.

Nice car, transmission needs work, but I test drove an S550 just prior and that transmission needed work, too. The dealer lowballed me on my trade and wanted MSRP on the car but I didn't even bother making an offer as I'm not yet sure the LS460 F-Sport is the car I want. If I DO make a bid then it will be maybe a thousand or two above invoice as the car he had has been sitting on his lot for 7 months and has 199 miles on it.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to respond to my post (BTW, I have no idea how to do an inventory search).

Oh, and, it's nice to be welcomed, even if I'm not officially a Lexus owner.

williakz

You sound like a guy who knows cars. What specifically did you find lacking in the LS460 F-Sport and S550 trannies, if you don't mind my asking? I have been under the impression that, aside from the weird oil change/acceleration problem on the LS, both vehicles possess exemplary modern transmissions. Not so?

nlk10010

Hey, I'm far from an expert, it's just that I have (as have most of us) owned my share of nice cars and drove a stick for many years. I know what I like and what I don't. The main problem (and this is one shared by BMW and the cars I tested today) is when you try to accelerate from a coast. The transmission hesitates and is very jerky when engaging. Are there transmissions that don't exhibit this problem? I don't know, but these three do. BMWs have a severe delay when accelerating from a stop (I didn't necessarily notice this on the LS or S500). The Lexus, OTOH, took a second or two to "think" about things when I did a manual downshift. Both the Lexus and S500 also exhibited hesitations and a bit of jerkiness in certain acceleration scenarios.

Are the transmissions on the LS and S500 "exemplary"? Well, I'd have to look the definition up but in my VERY humble opinion, while they may be near the top of the heap they still, as I say, need work.

I WILL say that the S500 was about the most comfortable car I've EVER driven,

williakz

Gotcha! I've developed the habit (as has my son in his 535i) of moving my Z4's shift lever into S mode BEFORE I shoot for a slot in fast moving traffic and hit the gas. I've just about messed my pants trying that move while still in D and coasting! I've never noticed anything weird about the Lexus tranny, but I rarely shift it except up and down a steep incline nearby when a slowpoke is making the car lug. Thanks for the chat.

nlk10010

Understand completely. I flick the downshift paddle first as well, if I can. In a stick I more or less keep it in the right gear and the engine has a broad-enough "torque range" so there's no problem. It's just that I occasionally get "lazy" with the auto (hey, isn't that why we have them) and the jerk is noticeable and ticks me off.

BTW, I tested an E63S just before the S550 and either they left the retaining straps on or something is seriously wrong with that MCT transmission. It felt like an old Saab I tried once: I've got the thing floored and my wife, from the back seat, leans over and asks: "Why don't you put it in second gear"?

VERRRRY sluggish. And weird. But it's a bit too small for me anyway, and I'm not terribly fond of the styling.

LexFather

Hi,

I've driven both as well quite a bit and I think some of it takes time as the tranny "learns" the driver. I noticed after some miles are on the cars the tranny shifts better.

Also with the F-sport make sure it is in Sport+ mode for the most engaging drive or at least Sport for better throttle response. The car in normal/comfort/eco IMO drives like a traditional Lexus and might seem lazy.

The same thing in the W222, if its in the wrong setting(s) it drives rather off.

Good luck on your decision!

williakz

I think we're all going to have to learn the "get ready to rumble" move to beat the computer. Especially with manuals going the way of the dodo. I've got the dual clutch tranny in the Z4 ("automated manual") and you always feel the presence of the higher power deciding what it will let you do and what is verboten.

The E63S problem sounds like the oil change/acceleration issue with the LS cars. Apparently, some parameter (engine knock?) is clobbered during the oil change reset (telling the computer the oil has been changed). This results in VERY poor acceleration until the parameter SLOWLY regains is normal value. There are ways to hurry the process along, but it involves driving like a drag racer for a while and NOBODY wants to do that!

nlk10010

LF: The LS was in Sport Mode but I didn't put it in + because I didn't want to risk the traction control being turned off (I'm a chicken when it comes to that).

I put the W222 in Sport, I'm pretty sure, (there were only two settings on the center console).

Look, I agree about the "training" of transmissions, not only does the transmission learn your driving style but YOU get used to the way the transmission works. Neither was a "deal-breaker" for me, just an acknowledgment as to how progress does bring certain drawbacks along with it.

Thanks for the well wishes, I'll tell you, if I wasn't hell bent on selling my 550ix I'd wait another year. My head is spinning with different cars, none of which is just right, and I can't make progress on my "real" job.

nlk10010

You know, you could be on to something there, it was almost as if the E63 was in "valet" mode. That's if the E63 HAD a valet mode, which I don't think it does.

And of course you're right, we'll need to adapt, for a long time now the discussion on the BMW boards has been how "real men drive manuals" or "I'll never give up the control of a manual". I told them while a manual is fun it does have its drawbacks and they're going away anyway. I predicted that a year or two from now the discussion will be along the lines of "real men use the paddle shifters" or "the people who really know how to drive can anticipate the car and hit the paddle at just the right time".

It's a slow process. Thanks for the interesting "conversation".

LexiJeff

I landed on my '13 AWD F-Sport quite accidentally, in early '14. Was shopping around many vehicles and was in no way prepared to spend 90-ish, but found this one with ~2K miles (GM-driven for a month or so), and they were fairly aggressive on price, and after working my best deal drove off for about 10K under sticker.

After almost 3 months and about 3K more miles, I am <knocks wood> happy to report that as of yet I have had only two issues, both promptly dealt with by the stealer:

1. The infamous BBS (Brembo Brake Squeal). Shim kit knocked out 95% of the squeal, almost entirely eliminated. Still hear a little occasionally.
2. The rubber gasket around the sunroof was very badly weathered. According to one [insider] account, they've seen this more than a few times, and, so they say, have submitted a report up the chain to get it redesigned. In any event, they replaced the entire unit no questions asked. I got a strong sense I should not be surprised to see this issue reappear.

Other than these two issues, I've been exceedingly happy with the car, and after having owned several luxury nameplates, I suspect I will be in the Lexus family for the remainder of my driving years.

nlk10010

Good info.

Were the shim kit and gasket covered under warranty (I would guess the latter was, former I'm not sure)?

Thanks.

LexiJeff

Yup, both were covered completely, no questions asked.