2011 LS 460 SWB AWD vs 2009 LS600LH Dilemna
05-14-14, 05:02 AM
#16
Moderator
Lol..must be a cali problem. I drive about 20 miles a day but never see another 600. In fact I haven't seen one on the road in over 6 months and I live in metro Atlanta. I just went on a road trip to Florida..still..not another 600 in sight.
05-14-14, 07:45 AM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Update: The Lexus dealer's first offer is for my 2011 LS460 PLUS $6K in trade difference to get the 2009 LS600. I countered with my car PLUS $2K (which I think would be a reasonably great deal for me).
Any other opinions on this deal to be shared? Thanks!
Any other opinions on this deal to be shared? Thanks!
05-14-14, 08:44 AM
#18
I own a 2009 600, so here is what I'd be doing if I was considering this car.
Warranty - it's out of the original warranty by both time and mileage, but the CPO is good as it will cover things that will need replacing like the air struts and control arms. The fact that it's a 2009 might also mean that it might have had things fixed on the production line as running changes before the car was built. For that, I'm meaning the engine valve springs and also the hard drivers seat cushion which had VIN cutoffs for when those changes were made. Check the VIN against the AllData TSB information to work those details out.
You should do a road trip or fly and inspect this car. The interior trim is out of warranty now and might have some major marks in the leather or repairs done that you just can't deal or live with. I'm specifically thinking about the leather dash panel and top of the doors which would be ridiculously expensive to replace. I think the dash alone is a $10K part. You can also check it then for wind noise, rattles, brake smoothness and tire balance which you could ask the dealer to fix before you buy the car. After you buy the car those things aren't typically CPO covered, so I'd get them done first!
If this was me I'd put a refundable deposit down to temporarily secure the car, then head on down to put it through my inspection list. CPO will cover mechanical and electrical for sure, but not brakes, door trim, interior trim, tires or dash panels.
Warranty - it's out of the original warranty by both time and mileage, but the CPO is good as it will cover things that will need replacing like the air struts and control arms. The fact that it's a 2009 might also mean that it might have had things fixed on the production line as running changes before the car was built. For that, I'm meaning the engine valve springs and also the hard drivers seat cushion which had VIN cutoffs for when those changes were made. Check the VIN against the AllData TSB information to work those details out.
You should do a road trip or fly and inspect this car. The interior trim is out of warranty now and might have some major marks in the leather or repairs done that you just can't deal or live with. I'm specifically thinking about the leather dash panel and top of the doors which would be ridiculously expensive to replace. I think the dash alone is a $10K part. You can also check it then for wind noise, rattles, brake smoothness and tire balance which you could ask the dealer to fix before you buy the car. After you buy the car those things aren't typically CPO covered, so I'd get them done first!
If this was me I'd put a refundable deposit down to temporarily secure the car, then head on down to put it through my inspection list. CPO will cover mechanical and electrical for sure, but not brakes, door trim, interior trim, tires or dash panels.
05-14-14, 12:38 PM
#19
Moderator
I own a 2009 600, so here is what I'd be doing if I was considering this car.
Warranty - it's out of the original warranty by both time and mileage, but the CPO is good as it will cover things that will need replacing like the air struts and control arms. The fact that it's a 2009 might also mean that it might have had things fixed on the production line as running changes before the car was built. For that, I'm meaning the engine valve springs and also the hard drivers seat cushion which had VIN cutoffs for when those changes were made. Check the VIN against the AllData TSB information to work those details out.
You should do a road trip or fly and inspect this car. The interior trim is out of warranty now and might have some major marks in the leather or repairs done that you just can't deal or live with. I'm specifically thinking about the leather dash panel and top of the doors which would be ridiculously expensive to replace. I think the dash alone is a $10K part. You can also check it then for wind noise, rattles, brake smoothness and tire balance which you could ask the dealer to fix before you buy the car. After you buy the car those things aren't typically CPO covered, so I'd get them done first!
If this was me I'd put a refundable deposit down to temporarily secure the car, then head on down to put it through my inspection list. CPO will cover mechanical and electrical for sure, but not brakes, door trim, interior trim, tires or dash panels.
Warranty - it's out of the original warranty by both time and mileage, but the CPO is good as it will cover things that will need replacing like the air struts and control arms. The fact that it's a 2009 might also mean that it might have had things fixed on the production line as running changes before the car was built. For that, I'm meaning the engine valve springs and also the hard drivers seat cushion which had VIN cutoffs for when those changes were made. Check the VIN against the AllData TSB information to work those details out.
You should do a road trip or fly and inspect this car. The interior trim is out of warranty now and might have some major marks in the leather or repairs done that you just can't deal or live with. I'm specifically thinking about the leather dash panel and top of the doors which would be ridiculously expensive to replace. I think the dash alone is a $10K part. You can also check it then for wind noise, rattles, brake smoothness and tire balance which you could ask the dealer to fix before you buy the car. After you buy the car those things aren't typically CPO covered, so I'd get them done first!
If this was me I'd put a refundable deposit down to temporarily secure the car, then head on down to put it through my inspection list. CPO will cover mechanical and electrical for sure, but not brakes, door trim, interior trim, tires or dash panels.
05-14-14, 01:31 PM
#20
I agree with CJITTY, wanderer99 gave you excellent advice.
05-14-14, 09:10 PM
#21
Correct, still rarely ever see another 600 ever, but online the rarity is falling.
05-15-14, 03:45 AM
#22
Moderator
05-15-14, 05:19 AM
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
The KC Lexus dealer has countered my offer with my car plus $4500 trade difference. This does seem to be a pretty good deal, even at that price, since the value of the CPO LS600 is showing somewhere between $47k - $53K, and I just paid $40,800 for my 2011 Lexus 3 weeks ago.
This dealer is only 170 miles from my house (2.5 hour drive), so there would be no need for airline tickets... may have to make a drive down to really see how impressive the 600 is compared to my 460...
One thing that the dealer is adamant about (that I really haven't heard on this forum) is that the dark blue/Mica color (the color of my LS460) is the most difficult for them to sell. He may just be trying to convince me my trade isn't worth what I think... Have any of you heard that the Mica Blue LS460s are less desirable/harder to resell?
This dealer is only 170 miles from my house (2.5 hour drive), so there would be no need for airline tickets... may have to make a drive down to really see how impressive the 600 is compared to my 460...
One thing that the dealer is adamant about (that I really haven't heard on this forum) is that the dark blue/Mica color (the color of my LS460) is the most difficult for them to sell. He may just be trying to convince me my trade isn't worth what I think... Have any of you heard that the Mica Blue LS460s are less desirable/harder to resell?
05-15-14, 05:41 AM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
So my real question would be for those who have owned both a 460 and 600 (CJITTY et al...):
1. Would you rather have a 2009 LS600 with 61K miles (dark gray mica), including a 3-year CPO warranty, or
2. Would you rather have a 2011 LS460 SWB AWD with 33K miles (dark blue mica) and the same 3-year CPO warranty?
The $4500 price difference is negligible on this size of a purchase...
1. Would you rather have a 2009 LS600 with 61K miles (dark gray mica), including a 3-year CPO warranty, or
2. Would you rather have a 2011 LS460 SWB AWD with 33K miles (dark blue mica) and the same 3-year CPO warranty?
The $4500 price difference is negligible on this size of a purchase...
05-15-14, 05:55 AM
#25
Lead Lap
Me personally, I like the older body style but I like the features of the newer car, mainly bluetooth audio so it is really up to you to figure out what is important to you. What color do you like better and what features are important to you? What condition is the interior/exterior of the 61k car vs. the 33k car?
Again, this is my personal opinion but losing certain newer features in the 2011 does not make up for the difference in gaining 4 inches of legroom, more power (mainly torque), alcantara headliner, leather dash, wooden shift ****, rear seat entertainment, radar cruise with PCS, quieter ride, LED headlights, rear side power sunshades, air suspension (if yours doesn't have it), 4 zone climate control, rear reclining heated and cooled seats with audio/climate controls (and yes the 2009 does have passenger memory seats).
What you would be giving up is the newer nav/audio with bluetooth audio, newer body style (again I am personally not a fan of it), bigger trunk (make sure this is not a big deal because the 600's trunk is small although a little bigger in 2009 vs. 2008) and a more nimble/lighter car.
These are some of the things to think about but before you buy it one thing to make sure is if the glove box is loose, have them fix it since this is a common and very expensive thing to fix and since the car is over the original warranty, it is not covered under the TSIB for it. Not a huge deal since there are DIY fixes but have them throw it in there as part of negotiations.
Again, this is my personal opinion but losing certain newer features in the 2011 does not make up for the difference in gaining 4 inches of legroom, more power (mainly torque), alcantara headliner, leather dash, wooden shift ****, rear seat entertainment, radar cruise with PCS, quieter ride, LED headlights, rear side power sunshades, air suspension (if yours doesn't have it), 4 zone climate control, rear reclining heated and cooled seats with audio/climate controls (and yes the 2009 does have passenger memory seats).
What you would be giving up is the newer nav/audio with bluetooth audio, newer body style (again I am personally not a fan of it), bigger trunk (make sure this is not a big deal because the 600's trunk is small although a little bigger in 2009 vs. 2008) and a more nimble/lighter car.
These are some of the things to think about but before you buy it one thing to make sure is if the glove box is loose, have them fix it since this is a common and very expensive thing to fix and since the car is over the original warranty, it is not covered under the TSIB for it. Not a huge deal since there are DIY fixes but have them throw it in there as part of negotiations.
Last edited by patgilm; 05-15-14 at 06:44 AM.
05-15-14, 06:14 AM
#26
05-15-14, 06:53 AM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Me personally, I like the older body style but I like the features of the newer car, mainly bluetooth audio so it is really up to you to figure out what is important to you. What color do you like better and what features are important to you? What condition is the interior/exterior of the 61k car vs. the 33k car?
Again, this is my personal opinion but losing certain newer features in the 2011 does not make up for the difference in gaining 4 inches of legroom, more power (mainly torque), alcantara headliner, leather dash, wooden shift ****, rear seat entertainment, radar cruise with PCS, quieter ride, LED headlights, rear side power sunshades, air suspension (if yours doesn't have it), 4 zone climate control, rear reclining heated and cooled seats with audio/climate controls (and yes the 2009 does have passenger memory seats).
What you would be giving up is the newer nav/audio with bluetooth audio, newer body style (again I am personally not a fan of it), bigger trunk (make sure this is not a big deal because the 600's trunk is small although a little bigger in 2009 vs. 2008) and a more nimble/lighter car.
These are some of the things to think about but before you buy it one thing to make sure is if the glove box is loose, have them fix it since this is a common and very expensive thing to fix and since the car is over the original warranty, it is not covered under the TSIB for it. Not a huge deal since there are DIY fixes but have them throw it in there as part of negotiations.
Again, this is my personal opinion but losing certain newer features in the 2011 does not make up for the difference in gaining 4 inches of legroom, more power (mainly torque), alcantara headliner, leather dash, wooden shift ****, rear seat entertainment, radar cruise with PCS, quieter ride, LED headlights, rear side power sunshades, air suspension (if yours doesn't have it), 4 zone climate control, rear reclining heated and cooled seats with audio/climate controls (and yes the 2009 does have passenger memory seats).
What you would be giving up is the newer nav/audio with bluetooth audio, newer body style (again I am personally not a fan of it), bigger trunk (make sure this is not a big deal because the 600's trunk is small although a little bigger in 2009 vs. 2008) and a more nimble/lighter car.
These are some of the things to think about but before you buy it one thing to make sure is if the glove box is loose, have them fix it since this is a common and very expensive thing to fix and since the car is over the original warranty, it is not covered under the TSIB for it. Not a huge deal since there are DIY fixes but have them throw it in there as part of negotiations.
It really does sound like the LS600 would be more car in almost every way. Long wheel base, reclining back seats, cooled back seats, DVD entertainment system (my 6-year old would be in heaven back there!), air suspension (my 2011 does not have that), rear side sunshades, adaptive cruise, collision avoidance, etc... Hard to imagine those upgrades not being worth the $4K trade difference, despite the higher miles.
I do think I'd have a hard time owning this car out of warranty, with all the technical wizardry that could break, so this would likely be a 3-year car for me. But WHAT A CAR!!!
I think I'm going to pull the trigger... Thanks to all for your advice!
05-15-14, 07:03 AM
#28
Lead Lap
Thanks for the detailed viewpoint! I have the bluetooth audio in my 2011 and have been using it somewhat, although I discovered that I could simply plug an old Ipod into the USB port and have access to my whole music library withouth the need for the bluetooth audio. I assume the 2009 would have a USB port for an Ipod, right?
Edit: Forgot to mention though, while you do give up bluetooth and the USB port, you gain a hard disk drive that can record your CDs (if you are old school and still have some) in the head unit.
Last edited by patgilm; 05-15-14 at 07:12 AM.
05-15-14, 08:15 AM
#29
Instructor
Thread Starter
Actually wrong, the 2009 will have an auxiliary port that you use with your ipod through a $5 stereo cable and you will not see the info on the nav screen, only on the ipod itself. There are other ways to get that information on the screen but it will be aftermarket and you will have to install it. Do a search for Vaistech.
Edit: Forgot to mention though, while you do give up bluetooth and the USB port, you gain a hard disk drive that can record your CDs (if you are old school and still have some) in the head unit.
Edit: Forgot to mention though, while you do give up bluetooth and the USB port, you gain a hard disk drive that can record your CDs (if you are old school and still have some) in the head unit.
05-15-14, 08:16 AM
#30
Moderator
So my real question would be for those who have owned both a 460 and 600 (CJITTY et al...):
1. Would you rather have a 2009 LS600 with 61K miles (dark gray mica), including a 3-year CPO warranty, or
2. Would you rather have a 2011 LS460 SWB AWD with 33K miles (dark blue mica) and the same 3-year CPO warranty?
The $4500 price difference is negligible on this size of a purchase...
1. Would you rather have a 2009 LS600 with 61K miles (dark gray mica), including a 3-year CPO warranty, or
2. Would you rather have a 2011 LS460 SWB AWD with 33K miles (dark blue mica) and the same 3-year CPO warranty?
The $4500 price difference is negligible on this size of a purchase...
Althought I LOVE the features of the 2011 like personalized settings control through NAV, BSM, LKA, I prefer the 2007-2009 body, especially with the new LED taillight offering we have to refresh the back end. The 600 LED headlights still looks amazing to me. And let's not forget about the ridiculous torque the 600 has, the better ride quality with the added weight, the quietness of not having an engine running while at slow/start/stop speeds. Plus the 600 is going to give you nearly option with the exception of advanced PCS (it may have it) and rear massaging seat.
I still say 600, but again, I am partial and I have owned a 460 before my 600
