sparky3

One could argue the LS430 looks very much like a late 90's Mercedes as well. I will tell you my 2004 LS430 that I owned for 8 years was the very best car I've ever owned. Ride was even cushier than my 460L with air (430 had regular suspension).
I basically traded up for the radar cruise, rear seat entertainment and a few other bells and whistles (looks, better highway fuel economy, performance is a tad better).

However had I purchased an UL 04+ 430 I'd probably never have gotten rid of it. My biggest surprise if I'm honest with the 460 is how much better it does around the bends. It's no IS-F, but there certainly is more of a connected feel to the road. It's a great blend of style, performance and toys.

Things I didn't like about the 2004 430:
Dated looks
More crude Ipod / CD changer interface / SAT radio screen
No LWB model that I'm aware of
Far too disconnected feeling from the road
Highway gas mileage (best I ever got was 27 MPG going 65 with the cruise on; I've hit 32.4 at the same speed with the big LS460 L) - I promise!
No park assist
No heated steering wheel
Good stereo, but far better in the 460, at least the ML

That's about it. For the money the LS430 is easily the best car you can buy. I'm not sure the 460 is quite as good if I'm honest as far as reliability though..

SW17LS

Bottom line is...nothing lasts forever. The LS430 was a great car, but now even a 2006 LS430 is going on 9 years old. Yes the LS is a great car, very well built, and they age very well. But...I don't want to drive around in something that old, with technology that outdated, etc etc. So, if given the choice between an LS460 and an LS430, I'm going to choose the LS460...whether it rides a little firmer or not.

sparky3

Anyone who thinks the 460 is a rough ride needs to go buy the Lexus IS-F. Not the F-Sport IS, but the true IS-F. Now THAT is a rough ride. The 460 is a creampuff.

hooks07

I have both a ls430and ls 460. From my experience they are entirely different. The 430 is quieter. The issue with wind noise from 460 I have experience. I have a Ls 460l by the way. The 430 is like a luxury tank. Take licking and keeps ticking. The 460 is like a sleek fast race horse. It runs super fast. I like the better styling with this car. I am running 20 tires on it. Lowenhart rims, sweet. I love them both.

Sipped the 460 and quietness the 430.

DavidinCT

This is like everything else.... Everyone has an issue and people will complain about everything, Also to note, you see the issues on people on this forum but, in reality most people who own a LS460/600 don't even know clublexus is around, as there are a lot more owners than people on this site who own a LS460/600....

My big question is on the AWD system on the LS (looking at a 2009/2010 with it). I've been reading threads and threads about people with issues with the system, or noise or even the lack of power.

Is it really that bad ? I live in CT, so winters can get pretty bad, and with out Sandbags in the trunk of my 430, with over 3-4 inches is very questionable. I am on the side my next care NEEDS to have AWD.

Is it dependable and does it add noise to the car ? Or is it something to avoid like A/S if you want a dependable, longer lasting car ?

Devh

When I went looking last year I was amazed at how many vehicles I have seen that had the air suspension replaced at millage below 50k so that was out of the question.
Driving the AWD examples were just fine but lacked the quality of power I was looking for.
After test driving a RWD those extra ponies and the lightness of the car came to life and so did the handling of the car. The application of power in a luxury car is very different then that of a sports car and having the quality of power in the lower to midrange with the right gearing is important. With the AWD if you turned the steering wheel to lock and gave it some gas you can hear the CV joints. The RWD turning radius is better, I'm able to park the car with ease which is another attribute of luxury.
I'm not trying to make your decision harder and apart from more things to go wrong I would get a RWD and set of spare wheels with snow tires as I think that would be better then AWD with touring tires.
In my honest opinion AWD should be relegated to SUVs and Subaru's not luxury sedans.

DavidinCT

Ok, I was really looking forward to AWD but, that is a disappointment. Knowing Toyota makes a lot of cars with AWD now and has for years I would expect the best quality in the LS.

Are they all that bad(a design flaw) or just a few/a lot of lemons ? It there are year that it's better than others (say 2010 or 2011) ?

If it really is that bad, then I am looking for a car with everything besides AWD and A/S....I'm sure that wont be easy...

Devh

I don't think they are as bad as I make them sound but in general AWD can have the potential of more problems because of the complexity and more moving parts in general.
I too thought that as long as it's a Toyota since they have experience in AWD with their SUVs and trucks they could build a reliable system but I feel the AWD on this application was an after thought in the design to be competitive with the Xdrive and 4Matic systems.
Lexus had to reroute the exhaust system, lower the horsepower and torque and make some other modifications to get it to work rather then start with an AWD platform from it's conception and then give us the lesser option of RWD from it. Just my opinion but I never felt AWD belongs on a Luxury car and it seems to be more of a trendy option for people that think they need it.
When you brake in the snow AWD is not going to save you.

DavidinCT

For someone who has lived in New England my entire life, I know this very well.

I'm not worried about that, I am worried about stepping on the gas and the car getting stuck (no weight in the back wheels) or not being able to get someplace because I cant keep control. Yes, I have good tires but, I have never seen any of my 2 LS cars to be really great in snow (1996 and 2001)...

I've driven a AWD system in heavy snow and no question, it handled a lot better, and I had better tires on my LS than this minivan did...

That is what I was thinking, better handling for snow in a LS quality but, I guess that cant happen if I want it to be reliable...

Devh

If you noticed in my fist response to you I only had a brief mention of the reliability aspect because I do believe the AWD version is reasonably reliable. It seems that some have encountered problems but it doesn't seem to be a problematic system in general.
I may have gone off the rails in our conversation and I do apologies. I think if you feel that AWD is what you need then I would buy without too much hesitation as long as you get a warranty to go with it.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

I was at my local dealer the other day picking up a new gas cap and we were comparing the 430 to the 460 with a friend who is the assistant service manager. For what it's worth he said stay away from 07 - 09 LS460's as they are in the shop all the time and cost an arm and a leg to fix.

I have 121k on my 04 430 and 1 air-shock was replaced by the previous owner under the extended warranty at around 80k miles. The rest are still looking good after 10 years and 121k miles.

greg3852

Every time I read this it is always from someone who owns a 430.

Does that statement even make sense to anyone. The 07-09 460's cost and arm and leg to fix? Yes cause all the other Lexus vehicles are cheap as hell to fix. HAHAHA Doesn't make any sense.
As stated 800 times before, there have been issues with early models. They were corrected. The vehicle itself is no less reliable because of them. It is a much more advanced vehicle than the 430, so obviously there would be some issues that the 430 didn't have to deal with. The vehicle itself is reliable and doesn't cost any more or less than any other LS.

SBlexus

+1^^^^greg3852, I never see a 460, only see 430 and lower models when I visit the dealership.

Devh

It sounds more like sour grape syndrome.
This happens a lot between old models and new especially when the new model has a minor issue.
When the MR2 Spyder came out the MK2 MR2 owners trashed the car for no reason making up their own facts which weren't true. It was so bad that a separate forum was created for just Spyders.

roadfrog

Not much...maybe two cents.

That's ridiculous. Good example....I just DIY'd a replacement of my rad (which I accidentally broke by leaning on the reservoir tank nipple) and a water pump which was weeping a very small amount of fluid. While I was there I replaced the serpentine belt and air filters. Took me about four hours to do and cost me about 220 bucks all in including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant:

109 dollars for the rad with lifetime warranty
55 dollars for the water pump
30 dollars for the coolant
13 dollars for the serpentine belt (Bando OEM)
7 dollars each for the air filters

A frickin' Honda Civic would cost more to do!

At the end of the day, these are basically Toyota parts and can hardly be called, "exotic" or "rare". Same with Service....DIY is simple or take it to Toyota. Can you say the same for a BMW, Audi Or Merc??