Bob04

I agree 100%. I have never regretted returning to the 430 after 8 months in a 460L. The 430 does all the things a luxury car should do better than the 460.

Lexus may have lost me too if they don't get back to the LS430 formula.

mbarron37

This might sound like a foolish question, but I don't know the answer. Why does the 430 ride smoother than the 460? I guess my question is what changed with suspension components and anything else that would make the 460 ride firmer and more harsh?

I have never driven a 430, but it seems from the online comparisons that anyone that has owned both a 430 and 460, most owners seem to state the 460 is not as refined or smooth/quiet. Frankly I could care less about technology, as a Kia or similarly priced vehicle are beginning to get all the extras that have been around the luxury segment for the past several years. I too want to make my car ride smoother, I do not have much interest putting in air suspension. Maybe Lexus will revert back to the 'old days' and make a smooth cruiser. They already have the sport for those that prefer more performance. Sales of the LS will probably dictate what Lexus does with this model going forward. I'm not sure of the trends in sales from the 400-430-460, but would be interesting to analyze.

peteybabes

I agree with Sal Collaziano's statement as well, but i don't think i would ever go back to a 430. . .just doesn't seem right.

perhaps i can get my dad to upgrade his GS400 to a LS430 though!

Sal Collaziano

Lexus ownership was really, really nice. I never had any issues with any of my Lexus vehicles and service was always a pleasure. If Lexus decides to fix it's stereo problems (search my threads if you need more information) and get a more masculine drivetrain in place for the GS or LS, I may return as a customer in the future...

mbarron37

One item I just looked up for LS fans was July and YTD sales. The LS line was down about 22.5% YTD compared to prior year LS sales. I know people will discuss Tesla and Mercedes as the main competition to the LS. Not sure how LS sales can get back on track, except for a re-design. The good news for potential LS buyers is that substantial discounts should be attainable as this year comes to an end.

GXAlan

1. 3UZ-FE engine is port injected. It is not as fuel efficient nor as powerful as the 1UR-FSE.

The power is important because the slower your acceleration is, the less noise/vibration/harness you will experience.

At 2000 RPM, the LS460 is making about 116 HP/310 lb-ft torque already. At 2000RPM, the old 4.3L makes about 108HP and 276 lb-ft torque. At 3000RPM, the 4.6L makes about 197HP/340 lb-ft torque. The 4.3L is making about 163HP and about 302 lb-ft torque. At 4000RPM, the 4.6L is 285HP and torque is 365lb-ft. The 4.3L only makes 217HP and torque has already dropped to about 305 lb-ft. At 6400RPM, the 4.6L reaches peak HP of about 380-385HP. The 4.3L is making about 250HP and a lowly 240 lb-ft torque.

(quoted/edited from: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...-analysis.html)

What's amazing is that this extra power comes from 300cc of extra displacement only. The LS430 was 18/25 and the LS460 is 16/24 (but the LS460 is 4233 lb vs the LS430's 3950 lb).

Next, the LS460 has direct injection. That produces the audible tick.
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2. The LS430 had smaller rims and thicker tires.

The original LS430 had 16" wheels with 225/60-16 tires.
My LS460 Sport has 19" wheels with 245/45-19 tires.

The beefier tires improve braking, improve handling, and look more "aggressive." That's why people like running 20's and 21's when going "VIP style." Low profile tires also result in a stiffer ride or more road feel.

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3. What I call the "library effect"


I'm sure there's a technical term for this. Think about a whisper. It's quiet, objectively. However in a very quiet library, a whisper can be very disruptive. In a busy subway station, a whisper goes unnoticed.

Car and Driver data
The LS430 was rated at
36dB at idle
65dB cruising at 70mph

The 2014 LS460 AWD F-Sport is
35dB at idle
66dB at 70mph**
** remember that this is now on 19" rims and AWD

The 2007 LS460L RWD
39dB at idle
65dB at cruising**
** remember this is pre-JMcRaney wind-noise fix.

2015 Kia K900
34dB idle
67dB cruising

--------------------
Edmunds does not have LS430 data
LS460
Db @ Idle: 39.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 65.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 58.2

Rolls Royce Phantom
Db @ Idle: 40
Db @ Full Throttle: 67
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 59

----------------------
Car and Driver Skid Pad
LS430 = 0.73 (on 17" rims)
LS460L = 0.80
LS460 FSport AWD = 0.83
K900 = 0.80
Equus = 0.82

For a LS460 alternative, you might want to look at the Kia K900 or Hyundai Equus. Don't hate on the brand -- the underdog is always going to try harder. Hyundai will drive to your home/office to let you test drive the Equus actually.

SW17LS

Bear in mind that when the 460 was introduced in 2007 sales were huge. Overall the 460 has been a better seller than the 430. Sales are down a lot now because of the car being so old vs the competition, decline of the segment as a whole, Tesla, the new S CLass, etc.

mbarron37

Yes, the current LS is getting a little tired, but still a quality car. Just surprises me that YOY sales have declined > 20%, that is higher than I would have guessed. No doubt when the next generation is released that sales will be substantially higher than the prior year.

I buy used, so it doesn't concern me all that much. Always interested to know changes they make to the vehicle during the re-design process. I for one, hope they take a step back and make a smoother and quieter car than they do today.

mbarron37

Hyundai has come a very long way, not sure about Kia. Anyway, for the 430 vs. the 460 what are the differences in the suspension components? I realize they put larger tires on the 460, which could account for some of the harness. Are shocks and struts the same from the 430 to the 460 or did they change something? Coil stiffness might have changed also?

My gripe is the OEM tire, I am very soon going to a good Michelin from the Turanza. Hopefully that in itself will make a material difference.

SW17LS

It doesn't surprise me. The car is much older than all its competitors.

I had an LS430 and while I have not had an LS460, I've driven them many times as I've shopped for them. I don't think the 460 is really any louder, it is a little firmer by the nature of it being a slightly sportier ride. The current 460 refresh is a big improvement over the previous 460s as well. You can see by the numbers posted above, the 460 is quieter if anything. I think the biggest factor is wheel size. 18s vs 17s made a big ride difference on the 430 too. The 460 has 18s standard and optional 19s.

Pamperme

Sportier "ride"?
No. Let's call the ride what it is; a HARSHER, LESS-luxurious, more BUMPY ride.

roadfrog

A 1986 Chevy Malibu might ride better and be quieter than a 2014, but it doesn't mean I'd give up the newer model for it.

There's no going back without sacrificing SOMETHING same with going forward. The 460 is a fine automobile. But maybe I'm just still in the honeymoon phase after living in misery with my previous 7 series BMW fiasco.

Everyone (I mean EVERYONE) who gets into my 08, comments on how quiet and pliant the ride is. And sorry, but I find the 430 is just FUGLY and dated.

SBlexus

I get the same comments on mines, I don't think it's as dated as other brands but I do think it had its day in the lime light. I guess the 05-06 has a lot of the 460 features but the market has change and technology as well.

Devh

I was thinking 1976 Caprice Classic. The LS460 is still a boat for my tastes and even the new ones are getting to be a little dated but that's perfectly fine considering a lot of new cars are starting to look dystopian.
Any car that can last several incarnations on the same chassis like an NSX is a winner in my book.

SW17LS

I don't really agree with that assessment. I don't find the LS460 on 18s bumpier or harsher than an LS430 on 18s (thats a key factor, I see a lot of people with 19s complaining, or going from an LS430 on 17s to an LS460 on 19s and wondering why the 460 rides harder...duh), but it does feel a little smaller and a little more nimble (I.e. a little sportier ride). To me thats an improvement.

I felt a similar difference when I went from my 2003 ES to my 2010 ES. The 2010 was a little firmer and a little sharper, yet still rode great and was as quiet or quieter. I considered that an improvement too.