Turvey

Hello Gents,

I said I would report back after the Michelin PS3's fitted, they have 100% cured the problem but shouldn't have!

Firstly the BMW E39 hubs are 74.1mm , the wheel bores are over size at approx 75.3mm so the wheels had some 0.6mm run out, the rear shocks are basically gone and urgently need replacing. The dealer even asked me if I wanted to go ahead before the ring spacer spigots are custom made and the rear shocks replaced, I said " Yes put the tyres on".

The road force vibration test allows approx 16-17 lbs of force maximum (approx 75N) but these Michelins were approx 9 (approx 40N), so well within the spec on first position and no rotation was needed to offset anything regards force to wheel position. The technicians remounted the wheels and had to eye up the alignment due to the play in wheel hubs and torqued them up at 120 Nm (approx 80 lbs ft).

I then had the drive home of which is 35 mile, I got onto the carriage way and booted it to 95, I am not joking now and can really see where the topic starter (I8ABMR) is coming from, the only word for these Michelin PS3 tyres is "Awesome" , I can really see where he his coming from about the excitement of balance cure! and I know he knows where I am coming from! these tyres are just totally awesome, they look sensational with the tyres over-hanging the wheel rims by some 9-10mm.

I am so glad I found this forum and went with I8ABMR and also my instinct because I was swaying towards fitting Toyo T1 sports or the Toyo C1S (Not saying they are bad because upon my research of what tyre to use I was strongly swayed towards Toyo) however I'm glad I found this forum and went with my instinct to buy the Michelin PS3's, If you think I8ABMR or myself are getting excited or exaggerating then buy a set and get them on a Hunter machine.

I wish to thank this forum for this topic, I will still post in this thread regarding the vibration and Michelin tyres, but feel awkward because I own a BMW and not a Lexus.

Thank You!

Edited:
I wish to edit my post on the basis that if any Michelin technicians ever read this thread, please do not change the rubber compound in your tyre it is perfection (100%).

I8ABMR

Looks like a thread hijack !!!!! J/K

Tyrenfroe are you just trying to kick the guy when he is down ?? Give him a break. We are all brothers here and need to support one another , especially when something like this happens, and not try to rub anything in anyones face. It is what it is. Usually these cars are bullet proof. The LS is/was the most reliable car sold in the US, so no warranty gamble would not / should not have been too risky. In his case it did not work well but we live and learn. Im sure we ( including you) have all made mistakes my friend. I cant believe that you are hoping that another member " lose many thousands of dollars on your Lexus experience". Dude I know you're new with only 3 posts but we do things a little differently on this forum.

Here is your post since it was erased ( I pasted this from another members post ):


Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrenfroe
Hmm...You weren't the guy that scoffed at (the many) Lexus owners who told you a factory warranty was essential to used LS ownership, were you? You weren't the guy that could get Lexus parts and services at 1/10 dealer cost, were you? Come to think of it, you were that guy!

One can only hope you lose many thousands of dollars on your Lexus experience. You can take comfort in the assurance that your experience will provide a cautionary tale for others that tend to value show over substance, bark over bite, hat over cattle.

I8ABMR

Right on !!! I am so happy for you!!! I know how happy you are right now. I love my car again. No issues with vibration, smooth ride, and honestly grip that makes my car feel as light as a G35. I thought handled well for its size until I got these Michelins. Even when I would make a u turn in a lot the Pirellis would slip on the painted surfaces. The Michelins never do. In the end we get what we pay for usually. I had a set of Michelins on my dropped GS and I was amazed that it was the first tire in 10 years of dropped cars and cars with larger wheels that did not have to be rebalanced. It was perfect the first time . The wear on the PS3 is going to be better than mine. That is in fact one of the points they tried to improve with the evolution from the PS2 to PS3. I am hoping that by the time these need to be replaced they will have the PS3 in my HUGE sizes. I forget that I am running the same width tires as many sports cars if not bigger. I just hope they get it together soon with there production run of the PS3 with the larger sizes. BRING IT !!!!!!!!!!

I AM SOLD ON MICHELINS. Just like he said, if you dont believe it.........just try a set. You will be hooked

tyrenfroe

Hubris. Greek. Read up on it.

Turvey

After looking at my post and reading it back through, my excitement was due to the tyres. I want to also thank other companies. I own a forum myself based on truth and money topics. The truth of the matter is that Google brought me to your forum. I therefore wish to thank google with SERPS that I found this forum. I should of found this problem on BMW forums, but feel IMO the BMW forums are full of lazy posts.

I am not a lazy guy and research on google for hundreds, even thousands of hours if that is what it takes!

It comes to something when someone like me needs to join a Lexus forum to get confirmation of my research for a BMW!.

I urge the moderators to keep this forum on track because this forum is bang on, don't let one liner posts in! they are basically useless for people like myself searching for an answer.

I can not give the topic starter enough praise regarding these Michelin tyres, this is IMO a serious topic in the world of vibration problems and from a SERPS point of view your forum Rules!

I8ABMR

I know tire shops have always told me that Michelins are the best and I would say in my own personal experience that they have been too, but I would like to know objectively why they are the best. I have been told they take extra steps to make sure their tires are close to round as possible and balance much easier. I wonder if we have any tire company people on the forum who can shed some light on the topic of Michelin quality . I have already told the wife that when we need new tires down the line for our new Sienna I will be shopping for Michelins. From my personal experience their quality all season tires are amazingly quiet and wear very very well, and their high performance summer tires are INSANE!! I am looking forward to the next set of PS3s.

Turvey have you ever had a set of PS2s or did you start with the good stuff and only the PS3s??

Turvey

I had tyres put on at Jackson ford in Henley in arden in UK, one of the bothers Matt Jackson races touring cars in a big way. I dealt with his brother Dan Jackson who knows his stuff with tyres. When I phoned I wanted PS3's, he told me to use PS2's because they are star marked for BMW but couldn't get them due to availability, he then suggested Michelin pilot super sports, but again no availability. He finally settled for the PS3's. When I was at Jackson Ford I asked Dan nicely if I could watch on the shop floor because I am sad and really interested in this tyre subject. Dan agreed and I was there for approx 2 hours watching everything, Dan did tell me why the Michelin tyres are so good.

The Michelin tyres are so good because of the compound they use,but also if you look at the tyre wall on the start of the tread blocks you will see tiny thin ribs of rubber, this is from the tyre molding of the tread blocks. Most tyres will show some 8 of these but could be 6 or upto 16? whatever? but Michelin form the tread blocks in the mold every 40mm (approx 1.5") so dan was telling me this is what makes Michelin so superior with design over other tyre manufacturers. Dan also commented when he saw my rear Vredestein ultrac sessanta's and pointed to the tread blocks "This is why you shouldn't use cheap tyres" I nearly called him a cheeky b*****d but decided to listen, I replied "they are not cheap tyres the cost £190 each", 265/35/18, Dan replied "Yes but they should be cheap tyres" because the tread blocks are only molded in approx 7-8 places.

So the main answer to why Michelin are top is because of evey aspect of design but how the tread blocks are molded is a key factor also.

One subject I can not understand is the fact in the UK few tyre place's seem to understand the concept of tyres? why is this? it is their job to understand! I study physics and my teacher also told me that only 5% of the human race keep the future moving forward? Why is it that tyre companies in the UK can not pick up on these problems? Why are they so dense? I can not understand how tyre companies in UK do not upgrade to Hunter machines but use Mickey mouse balancers?

I8ABMR

I am having so much fun with my LS recently. For ****s and giggles I keep launching the car the car nto a left turn while waiting at a light and the car goes full power with no slip and no TCS intrusion. Its amazing how much more fun I am having since I got these. I even brought the pressure down to 40 psi warm for more grip. Too much fun to worry about wear right now. With these tires and the AZ Summer time heat the tires are like gum on the road.

I am glad to get some more objective info as to why the Michelins perform like they do. It all sounds like hype until you get a set

Turvey

I only use nitrogen in my tyres it gives a more balanced tyre pressure with heat fluctuations, I use 32 in fronts and 35 in rears for best results in my tyre size. Are you sure 40 psi is correct for your tyre size? seems rather high IMO, keep your eye on the middle tread wear.

Edited:
I just read the tyre info on the side wall of my PS3's it says do not inflate above 40 psi, this is size 235/40/18. IMO I would use 33 on fronts and 36 in rears for the 22" tyres with nitrogen.

jgbackes

iTrader: (2)

You can also rent or purchase an infrared thermometer. Run your tires for ¼ of a mile then measure both the middle and outside of the tire. If the middle is cooler than the outside release some air. Repeat until all areas of the tread are the same temp.

Turvey

One thing I have noticed since the new front tyres is the fact the suspension is lower again like it was on the 16" wheels. For some reason when I was running the front Yokohama tyres with the balance problems my front suspension seemed to be running high with a large gap between the tyre and arch? I honestly at the time thought this was an optical illusion but the suspension is now lower like it was when I had the 16" wheels on?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Nospinzone

Interesting! Firstly, I was not aware of an infrared thermometer for measuring tire temperature. And secondly, I am try to understand the logic behind releasing air if the middle is cooler. It would seem to me if the outsides were running hotter it would be because there is more drag due to under inflation. So you would want to increase air pressure to put more load on the center of the tire. As Bill O'Reilly would say, "tell me where I'm wrong".

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I have said for years and years that Michelins are the best tire on the planet. Only the change in my finances caused me to stop buying them. When I'm back to that level, they will be back on my cars.
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying tires that cost as much or more than the wheels.
Wheels are important but tires are more important to the ride of the car.

Question: did the people who installed the Michelins have a chance to balance the old tires you had on the car?

Turvey

I can only agree with you, but one thing I have learned in the physics world is the fact intuition is usually wrong with how humans think. there are so many factors that could be right or wrong on both sides of the arguments. In this case I am with you, but could be wrong. I can only use my experience and say only use nitrogen in the tyres!

Turvey

I had the tyres balanced 3 times, ok I admit never on a hunter machine, but I purchased PS3's the dealer will not say lets just balance your old tyres to compare?

You have a valid point though!