glenneagle

The great thing about Lexus has been the simplicity and ergonomics of its controls, especially compared with the Germans. While BM was slammed for its iDrive, Audi for its MMI and MB for its Command system, Lexus won high and universal praise for its touch screen. As Steve Jobs said, what is easier than just touching a screen with your finger.

Today, the trend in technology is towards touch screens. Think iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy S3 etc. And then Lexus chooses this time to introduce a mouse (1980s technology!!) instead of its intuitive touch screens. Even worse, this is introduced across all models. Consumer Reports, USA Today and most other experts have commented negatively on this change.

Gives me a strong reason to keep my '07 LS460 rather than get the new one. It also means that ergonomics are no longer a reason to choose Lexus over the Germans.

What on earth is Lexus management thinking?????

williakz

Excellent points. Lexus has sacrificed functionality for design considerations. You cannot have a touchscreen without a vertical central stack. Once Lexus decided to go horizontal instead of vertical, the touchscreen was gone. From that point on, whether a mouse, trackpad, wheel, or button array was immaterial: the natural link between human and machine was gone. Good for you for calling Lexus on this!

Nospinzone

In 2007 Lexus was ahead of the curve, and now 6 years later they're behind it.

Last December on vacation I had an MB rental with the mouse. It was OK to operate once I got used to it, but it was a poor replacement for my touch screen. It's like my radar cruise control, once you have it, you can't imagine buying a car without it.

thegov3

Couldn't agree more. I love the simplicity of the touch screen in my 2009. I drove a 2013 ES with a mouse and was able to use it after a while, but it took longer to do what I wanted. I actually think it is a hazard and creates distracted driving. It just isn't as initiative as a touch screen. Shame on Lexus. My next car will have a touch screen. I hope.

glenneagle

Consumer Reports, in their well read Best and Worst New Cars edition, says about the GS in their Vehicle Profiles: "A mouselike controller works the navigation system and audio controls, but it is fussy and distracting to use" .
For the ES, they say " the controls are more complicated" (then before) and "Unlike the Camry, ES versions with navigation get an overly-sensitive mouse controller, like the GS".

In the summary Vehicle Ratings section, the only "lows" for the GS are "Controls and fussy mouse controller".

What a difference from prior years when Lexus stood apart from the Germans by having simple, intuitive and ergonomic controls. Lets hope the next generation of vehicles goes back to Lexus roots. My 07 LS is looking better and better compared with the latest model!

aypues

well, there's also a safety consideration. Having a touchscreen means the screen has to be lower and within reach. Not ideal from a safety standpoint.

With a remote controller, it allows placement of the screen much higher and closer to eye level on the road where your eyes should be at all times while driving.

williakz

Have you seen the setup in Acura's new RLX? It has ALL the bases covered. A display screen up top; a touch screen just below that; and a turnable, clickable wheel below that. And enough buttons and steering wheel gizmos to make a 1980's GM fan happy once again. At least Lexus would never do something like that to us, would they?

CJITTY

I put a $9 bluetooth mouse in and it operates perfectly on my armrest as i mirror my Android phone into my 08 600hL nav screen using the VAIS iVIC for $450. Never reaching up to Nav screen and i use Samsung S voice to control the system. Now my car nav is a an Android tablet...that refreshed my car interior and it's a more fun experience driving now...I certainly have much more infotainment options with my setup than the new setups..the only thing visible is my mouse which stashes in the armrest when done and turns on and off automatically when my phone is in range...

1sWt2GS

iTrader: (6)

one bad thing i noticed about my touchscreen (might not pertain to the newer LS) is that i get scratches!

Nospinzone

I think it must be those long nails!

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I don't find that to be true.Using the mouse has you looking at the screen just as long or longer and can be a pain to click on where you want making looking at the screen even longer..
I prefer the touch screen even with the annoying finger prints.

glenneagle

I believe that Car & Driver has been instrumental over the years in establishing the credibility of BMW , and that Consumer Reports has been equally vital in establishing the Lexus reputation. I believe that Lexus customers are by and large the sort of people who do their research on Consumer Reports before making a big purchase.

So , and this is a SHOCKER which should keep the management of Lexus up at night, in the April 2013 Consumer Reports annual Auto issue, for the first time since 2007, THE LS 460 IS NO LONGER THE TOP RATED CAR IN THE USA!!!!

Since its introduction in 2007, it scored a remarkable 99 out of 100 points. Way ahead of its German competitors.
The "New and improved" 2013 model with the mouse scored only 92
The lows : "Fussy Controls".
Since 1989 has Lexus never been criticized for poor, driver unfriendly controls. That was one of the big differentiators between Lexus and the rest.

In fact, last years Consumer Reports specifically called out that with theLS 460 "the "controls are user friendly".

I think Lexus needs to "Refresh" their new line up asap and bring back the user friendly touch screen controls they were famous for. What on earth are they thinking????

SW17LS

Having gone from many years of the touch screen to having the remote touch in my new GS, I don't see the big deal. Yes there's a learning curve, but once you master it to me the touch screen is no quicker. We have a touch screen in the Jeep and I don't really mind either way.

The benefit of the mouse controller is it lets them use a larger screen, further away which is better for visibility and lets them create more stylish dashes. You couldn't have the big 12" screen with a touchscreen...and I for one like that big screen.

williakz

I just completed my long-form JD Power survey (25 minutes!) and I discovered that just about everything I found negative about the 2013 LS460 was directly or indirectly related to the new RTI controller. The horizontal dash (wood trim and display nook) collects dust and crap because of the wrap necessitated by the deep display nook. The front cup holder is too far away from the driver/passenger, is now too small for large drinks, and does not properly contain drinks due to lid not fully retracting (note in the GS, this lid obscures seat heating/cooling controls.) Worst of all, the poorly designed new cup holder sets up the beautiful Shimakoku wood to collect all kinds of dings and chips since it is unprotected on forward and side edges of the cup holder cavities.

My feedback on the LS460's systems was also negatively impacted by the RTI's clumsiness. The distraction of operating the RTI makes quick changes to music, climate controls, and navigation almost a death-defying gamble if it is attempted while driving. Every system is poorer in appearance and operation due to this hideous interface. I defy anyone to "type" a destination address with the RTI at anything other than the "hunt and peck" speed of an 80 year-old. Well, Consumer Reports knows about it, every 2013 Lexus owner knows about it, and now JD Power and Lexus sure as hell know about it!

SW17LS

I can type on the RTI as quickly as by touchscreen.

On another note, at the suggestion of someone else on the forum I tried inputting a destination by voice the other day, and was surprised to see it worked great! That feature was useless on my 2010 ES. So, now I don't have to type with it at all.