Ls430 vs ls460
06-19-13, 04:15 PM
#17
Moderator
06-20-13, 12:35 AM
#18
I have the 430 it never brakes and is DYI friendly on most things. 460 looks like a fat 350 to me but hey I know it is a sweet ride. My old 430 I drove to 200k with a flat tire and a wheel bearing I just bought another one they are cheap, forever dependable. All the technology on the 460 justs adds to the repair$ equation, though it has to be a dependable ride also, but happy with the 430.
08-17-13, 10:40 PM
#19
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Struggling with same dilemma. Have 04 430. Love it. But have opportunity to buy a 460 that I know (owner) at a good price that s exactly what I want. At the same time, many have said don't let go of the 430.
08-18-13, 06:09 AM
#20
As one who's been scoping LS430 prices for quite some time now, one's willingness to reach the $30k mark may well be the deciding factor in terms of which car to buy, but that also depends on what their long-term demands are of the car.
I would absolutely love a low-mile LS430, but with asking prices running around $26-$28k for examples with 30-40k miles, the idea of spending that much on anything without a warranty is getting in the way of my pulling the trigger. I have no doubts of the "bulletproofness" of these cars, yet the refreshed cars ('04-'06) are still almost eight years old at their youngest, and at some point age will require fairly expensive maintenance. Now, while a CPO LS460 would run you more - maybe $40-$45k, you're getting a younger car with a warranty that almost matches those of new cars.
My issues is that I'm looking for a car that will give me 10-12 years of good service. If all I wanted was a couple years or so out of my next car, I'd take a higher mileage LS430 all day long b/c the cost of entry isn't horrible (IMO). I just happen to think that low-mile LS430 sellers are praying on those who don't like the new design, and they're asking for all the money possible for their still at least (almost) eight year old cars. Where am I going with this.....I have no idea - yet I thought it might bring some perspective to the thread.
I would absolutely love a low-mile LS430, but with asking prices running around $26-$28k for examples with 30-40k miles, the idea of spending that much on anything without a warranty is getting in the way of my pulling the trigger. I have no doubts of the "bulletproofness" of these cars, yet the refreshed cars ('04-'06) are still almost eight years old at their youngest, and at some point age will require fairly expensive maintenance. Now, while a CPO LS460 would run you more - maybe $40-$45k, you're getting a younger car with a warranty that almost matches those of new cars.
My issues is that I'm looking for a car that will give me 10-12 years of good service. If all I wanted was a couple years or so out of my next car, I'd take a higher mileage LS430 all day long b/c the cost of entry isn't horrible (IMO). I just happen to think that low-mile LS430 sellers are praying on those who don't like the new design, and they're asking for all the money possible for their still at least (almost) eight year old cars. Where am I going with this.....I have no idea - yet I thought it might bring some perspective to the thread.
08-18-13, 06:50 AM
#21
Pole Position
I have the 430 it never brakes and is DYI friendly on most things. 460 looks like a fat 350 to me but hey I know it is a sweet ride. My old 430 I drove to 200k with a flat tire and a wheel bearing I just bought another one they are cheap, forever dependable. All the technology on the 460 justs adds to the repair$ equation, though it has to be a dependable ride also, but happy with the 430.
I have owned many of the Lexus cars, since 1989.. Starting with the first LS 400, which was an exceptional car, for its time and which set the standard for reliable luxury cars.. I put 250,000 miles on it, over 10+years.. That car also had control arm problems - had to be replaced at about 120,000 miles or so.. That car, even being the best for that time, also needed repairs. Timing chain replacement for (I think 90,000 miles), among other things, was expensive because they insist on replacing waterpump also.. I don't know about your 430 but now, the 460 has non mettalic timing belt, which does not need replacment.
Anyway, I had owned many LS cars, three versions (90, 95, 98) of the LS 400s, two LS430s, one LS460L and three LS 600Hls.. I can categorically state that the LS460L is far superior to the LS430 - the 430 is too "floaty". In fact, I didn't feel that the 430 was that much superior to the LS 400 units.
I can't comment on its reliability.. I doubt that 460 would be much worse than 430 but its possible of course, because 460 has much more expensive components.. it costs as much as 50% more than the 430.. and adding with inflation, yes, it would probably be more expensive to maintain..
Anyway, if you have not had a chance to drive the 460, I would encourage you to consider it. It is a superb car.. BTW, you can getls 600HLs for very close to the price of the LS460Ls.. and that is a phenominal car!
08-18-13, 07:14 AM
#22
Pole Position
As one who's been scoping LS430 prices for quite some time now, one's willingness to reach the $30k mark may well be the deciding factor in terms of which car to buy, but that also depends on what their long-term demands are of the car.
I would absolutely love a low-mile LS430, but with asking prices running around $26-$28k for examples with 30-40k miles, the idea of spending that much on anything without a warranty is getting in the way of my pulling the trigger. I have no doubts of the "bulletproofness" of these cars, yet the refreshed cars ('04-'06) are still almost eight years old at their youngest, and at some point age will require fairly expensive maintenance. Now, while a CPO LS460 would run you more - maybe $40-$45k, you're getting a younger car with a warranty that almost matches those of new cars.
My issues is that I'm looking for a car that will give me 10-12 years of good service. If all I wanted was a couple years or so out of my next car, I'd take a higher mileage LS430 all day long b/c the cost of entry isn't horrible (IMO). I just happen to think that low-mile LS430 sellers are praying on those who don't like the new design, and they're asking for all the money possible for their still at least (almost) eight year old cars. Where am I going with this.....I have no idea - yet I thought it might bring some perspective to the thread.
I would absolutely love a low-mile LS430, but with asking prices running around $26-$28k for examples with 30-40k miles, the idea of spending that much on anything without a warranty is getting in the way of my pulling the trigger. I have no doubts of the "bulletproofness" of these cars, yet the refreshed cars ('04-'06) are still almost eight years old at their youngest, and at some point age will require fairly expensive maintenance. Now, while a CPO LS460 would run you more - maybe $40-$45k, you're getting a younger car with a warranty that almost matches those of new cars.
My issues is that I'm looking for a car that will give me 10-12 years of good service. If all I wanted was a couple years or so out of my next car, I'd take a higher mileage LS430 all day long b/c the cost of entry isn't horrible (IMO). I just happen to think that low-mile LS430 sellers are praying on those who don't like the new design, and they're asking for all the money possible for their still at least (almost) eight year old cars. Where am I going with this.....I have no idea - yet I thought it might bring some perspective to the thread.
You might want to consider used warranty from Costco. Almost all "aftermarket" used car warranties, are scams (the companies usually go out of business or deny claims). Because its costco, I give it value (never actually bought it - I checked prices for my 2008 LS600hl and it was around $3500)..
If you are seeking a 10-12 years of good service, you should consider a new Camry or Accord.. They are almost as spacious as the old 430 and certainly better than a used 430 in many respects. Modern cars have come a long way since 2001's LS430. Personally, I would rather own one of these two than the LS430.. These would be a lot more reliable and cost effective.. I have owned a couple of camrys and an accord.. Recently, I bought two VW passats.. The reason I mention all this is not to boast but to establish my experience and credibility.. These cars are amazing.. Even my passats are giving 33 mpg and is as spacious as the ls430.. It the best driving car of these three.
The LS 430 can get very expensive to maintain, as it ages.. because parts are very expensive.. Besides, if your plan is to keep it for 10 to 12 years, why would you want to be driving around in a 15 to 20 year old car - seats would be worn out! If price is an issue and the size does not matter, I found the Lexus CT200 to be an excellent value. I just leased one and enjoy driving it. If you don't need the rear seat, it is excellent..
08-18-13, 07:23 AM
#23
Pole Position
Anyway, the amp costs around $1000 and seems to have a known problem. The lexus dealers have been helping out customers by replacing the amps, even out of warranty, for just labor charge..
08-20-13, 12:10 PM
#24
Let go of the 430! 460 drives much better! And in my personaly opinion, the 460 makes the 430 look old and dated.. The 460 is a phenominal car.. (assuming that the price difference is acceptable to you, of course!). The only problem with the 460 is that most have them have a problem with the amplifier. My nephew has a 460 without the mark levinson. I have had three LS600HLs with mark levinson audio and one 2007 LS460l. Between these 5 cars, I think 3 of the cars needed amplifier replaced.. I find it interesting that all cars have the same multi channel audio amp - even though some have the Mark Levinson ($3000?) "upgrade"! It seems that Lexus is scamming us by using the same amp for all cars.. lol..
Anyway, the amp costs around $1000 and seems to have a known problem. The lexus dealers have been helping out customers by replacing the amps, even out of warranty, for just labor charge..
Anyway, the amp costs around $1000 and seems to have a known problem. The lexus dealers have been helping out customers by replacing the amps, even out of warranty, for just labor charge..
08-20-13, 12:39 PM
#25
Pole Position
These (bolded) statements are purely subjective and shouldnt be used to advise a person to buy one way or another. I'm big fan of the 460 myself and will probably get one within the next year and a half but not really for the reasons you've stated. To this day the 430 has received nothing but praise on everything from build quality/reliability to ease-of-use to timeless elegance. In contrast, the 460 has been praised but not as much. The drive is not better but different. Styling is, like i said, subjective. I have received a lot of complements on my 430 to the tune of "I like your car better than the new one" or "They should've left it looking the same as this one". Dont get me wrong, i love the 460 a lot but i am prepared to take a slight hit on refinement, frequency of problems, and some other small issue because im a big LS fan regardless of the series. To me, every series of LS does something better than another but all are equally graceful in my eyes. JMO.
How ever, while I owned one of the 430s, I had simultaneously owned an S class (in 2000 - both cars I bought new).. Again, as a personal observation, I found the 430 to be quite "floaty".. The S class was very sturdy but was also more sluggish than the 430 at low speeds.
Having owned about 22 Lexus cars, over the past 24 years, I am just stating my personal opinion.. that the 460 is a far superior car.. Lexus was not always improving. '90 400 was great for its time. 95 400 was not as good (as admitted by lexus dealer - they lightened the transmission). 98 400 was clearly faster than predecessors.. but until then, they all looked the same.. I felt that the 430 was looking like a copy of the prior gen S class (noticed the resemblence when my friend parked his S next to my 430).. Again.. just my opinion, I felt that the 460 was ahead of the rest, in its stying - It probably was the first LS which was a design leader in its class, with an original design.. Until then, in my opinion, the LS looked like a derivative design from Mercedes etc..
Btw, if you are considering the used 460 , and if your budget permits, you should test drive the 600hl. Its not too much more expensive compared to the 460L of the same year - especially considering that it was originally a $138,000 car.. When I moved from my 460L to the 600HL, the superiority of the 600 was clear.. It seems to me that the batteries lower the center of gravity and increase weight - which gives more stability. Recently, I drove my friend's 430 and I must say.. that it is much too "floaty" to me.. Nothing wrong with it.. people who like the prior gen cadillacs would probably like 430 but even they would, in my opinion, would be better served by the 460.. it is a far advaned and superior car to the 430 - "just my opinion of course".. lol
Again.. I believe that this forum is just fo hobbyists to share our honest opinions. No offense is intended on anyone..
ps - not intending to side track this thread.. : I just replaced one of my 600Hls with a 2013 Jaguar xjl.. While the Jaguar is a beautiful looking car inside and out (I prefer its styling to the LS), I feel that the 600Hl is a better car.. I prefer the Jag to the 460 though.. Again, the 600 is about $40,000 more than my xjl.. That would be a primary reason.. The $130,000 jax xjl ultimate with suprerchared V8 would be a more equal comparision. If you are intending to buy 460 New, you might want to test drive the xjl also.. price range is about the same and the jag has $10k rebate for 2013 models!
Last edited by lexus600hl; 08-20-13 at 12:46 PM.
08-20-13, 01:24 PM
#26
Of course.. as I wrote, in my personal (ly was typo) opinion.. the 460 makes 430 dated. I have yet to meet anyone who say that they like their 430 better. As I wrote, I have owned three 400s, two 430s, one 460L and three 600Hls.. that does not make me a styling expert of course.. lol..
How ever, while I owned one of the 430s, I had simultaneously owned an S class (in 2000 - both cars I bought new).. Again, as a personal observation, I found the 430 to be quite "floaty".. The S class was very sturdy but was also more sluggish than the 430 at low speeds.
Having owned about 22 Lexus cars, over the past 24 years, I am just stating my personal opinion.. that the 460 is a far superior car.. Lexus was not always improving. '90 400 was great for its time. 95 400 was not as good (as admitted by lexus dealer - they lightened the transmission). 98 400 was clearly faster than predecessors.. but until then, they all looked the same.. I felt that the 430 was looking like a copy of the prior gen S class (noticed the resemblence when my friend parked his S next to my 430).. Again.. just my opinion, I felt that the 460 was ahead of the rest, in its stying - It probably was the first LS which was a design leader in its class, with an original design.. Until then, in my opinion, the LS looked like a derivative design from Mercedes etc..
Btw, if you are considering the used 460 , and if your budget permits, you should test drive the 600hl. Its not too much more expensive compared to the 460L of the same year - especially considering that it was originally a $138,000 car.. When I moved from my 460L to the 600HL, the superiority of the 600 was clear.. It seems to me that the batteries lower the center of gravity and increase weight - which gives more stability. Recently, I drove my friend's 430 and I must say.. that it is much too "floaty" to me.. Nothing wrong with it.. people who like the prior gen cadillacs would probably like 430 but even they would, in my opinion, would be better served by the 460.. it is a far advaned and superior car to the 430 - "just my opinion of course".. lol
Again.. I believe that this forum is just fo hobbyists to share our honest opinions. No offense is intended on anyone..
ps - not intending to side track this thread.. : I just replaced one of my 600Hls with a 2013 Jaguar xjl.. While the Jaguar is a beautiful looking car inside and out (I prefer its styling to the LS), I feel that the 600Hl is a better car.. I prefer the Jag to the 460 though.. Again, the 600 is about $40,000 more than my xjl.. That would be a primary reason.. The $130,000 jax xjl ultimate with suprerchared V8 would be a more equal comparision. If you are intending to buy 460 New, you might want to test drive the xjl also.. price range is about the same and the jag has $10k rebate for 2013 models!
How ever, while I owned one of the 430s, I had simultaneously owned an S class (in 2000 - both cars I bought new).. Again, as a personal observation, I found the 430 to be quite "floaty".. The S class was very sturdy but was also more sluggish than the 430 at low speeds.
Having owned about 22 Lexus cars, over the past 24 years, I am just stating my personal opinion.. that the 460 is a far superior car.. Lexus was not always improving. '90 400 was great for its time. 95 400 was not as good (as admitted by lexus dealer - they lightened the transmission). 98 400 was clearly faster than predecessors.. but until then, they all looked the same.. I felt that the 430 was looking like a copy of the prior gen S class (noticed the resemblence when my friend parked his S next to my 430).. Again.. just my opinion, I felt that the 460 was ahead of the rest, in its stying - It probably was the first LS which was a design leader in its class, with an original design.. Until then, in my opinion, the LS looked like a derivative design from Mercedes etc..
Btw, if you are considering the used 460 , and if your budget permits, you should test drive the 600hl. Its not too much more expensive compared to the 460L of the same year - especially considering that it was originally a $138,000 car.. When I moved from my 460L to the 600HL, the superiority of the 600 was clear.. It seems to me that the batteries lower the center of gravity and increase weight - which gives more stability. Recently, I drove my friend's 430 and I must say.. that it is much too "floaty" to me.. Nothing wrong with it.. people who like the prior gen cadillacs would probably like 430 but even they would, in my opinion, would be better served by the 460.. it is a far advaned and superior car to the 430 - "just my opinion of course".. lol
Again.. I believe that this forum is just fo hobbyists to share our honest opinions. No offense is intended on anyone..
ps - not intending to side track this thread.. : I just replaced one of my 600Hls with a 2013 Jaguar xjl.. While the Jaguar is a beautiful looking car inside and out (I prefer its styling to the LS), I feel that the 600Hl is a better car.. I prefer the Jag to the 460 though.. Again, the 600 is about $40,000 more than my xjl.. That would be a primary reason.. The $130,000 jax xjl ultimate with suprerchared V8 would be a more equal comparision. If you are intending to buy 460 New, you might want to test drive the xjl also.. price range is about the same and the jag has $10k rebate for 2013 models!
Just as you stated, these are just our honest opinions. Although i have yet to test drive the 460L(which is the one i want) or the 600, judging by other members, the ride cant get much smoother than the 430. I will see for myself. I will be in the used market when shopping for my next LS(2009-10) On another note, im wondering what do you like about the 600 better than the XJ? That Jag looks awesome but i know nothing about the interior or drive.
08-20-13, 06:25 PM
#27
Pole Position
No offense taking! Just as you stated, these are just our honest opinions. Although i have yet to test drive the 460L(which is the one i want) or the 600, judging by other members, the ride cant get much smoother than the 430. I will see for myself. I will be in the used market when shopping for my next LS(2009-10) On another note, im wondering what do you like about the 600 better than the XJ? That Jag looks awesome but i know nothing about the interior or drive.
Just as you stated, these are just our honest opinions. Although i have yet to test drive the 460L(which is the one i want) or the 600, judging by other members, the ride cant get much smoother than the 430. I will see for myself. I will be in the used market when shopping for my next LS(2009-10) On another note, im wondering what do you like about the 600 better than the XJ? That Jag looks awesome but i know nothing about the interior or drive.The 600 is an amazing car. The technology in it is very sophisticated and it shows. Sitting in the back seat, I find the ride to be exceptional. The 600 has a cooler in the back, reclining seats (which my jag doesn't have).. Of course, the jag xjl is a fun car to drive. The plus points for the xjl are: 1. exterior styling, 2. interior styling, 3. "fun factor' of the drive/ride - which is european firm like an audi/bmw (even mercedes is now riding a but softer than those two). 4. Paddle shift gears. 5. Their very unique gear shift, which is only a **** which "rises up" as you turn the car on.
I might prefer the jaguar xjl (v8) over the ls460L for XJL's exterior stying but would be happy with either. The 460L is a great car. The 600 is in a class of its own.. You have to own one to fully appreciate it.. test drives might not be sufficient. My prior car, even at 70,000 miles, drove a if it were brand new!
08-21-13, 12:15 PM
#28
Well i would think that the only difference between the 460L and 600hl would be the hybrid setup which makes the car quieter, LED treatments, and some interior apointments. Other than that, a fully optioned 460L would ride the same as a 600hl? Or am i wrong?
08-21-13, 12:29 PM
#29
Pole Position
You would be incorrect - to the extent that the weight of the batteries shifts the center of gravity to be lower and the car feels heavier. The extra horse power more than compensates for the heavier car and the result is a superior "feeling" ride. Much superior.. I have never driven a Rolls but the 600 hl probably the best over all feel in a luxury car.. Of course, the mercedes S class also offers an amazing ride.. Frankly, in general, I think that almost all of the top 4 cars - the A8L, the 750iL, S500L and the Lexus 460L are in the same league.. Some are better than others, based on individual preference. Personally, I might vote for the S550 over the 460L.. but for me, its a tie between the S550 and the LS600HL - slightly favoring the 600HL
08-21-13, 01:12 PM
#30
You would be incorrect - to the extent that the weight of the batteries shifts the center of gravity to be lower and the car feels heavier. The extra horse power more than compensates for the heavier car and the result is a superior "feeling" ride. Much superior.. I have never driven a Rolls but the 600 hl probably the best over all feel in a luxury car.. Of course, the mercedes S class also offers an amazing ride.. Frankly, in general, I think that almost all of the top 4 cars - the A8L, the 750iL, S500L and the Lexus 460L are in the same league.. Some are better than others, based on individual preference. Personally, I might vote for the S550 over the 460L.. but for me, its a tie between the S550 and the LS600HL - slightly favoring the 600HL