SW17LS

Hey y'all..

Getting towards the back end of my ES lease and as I typically always do, I'm considering a 3 year old LS instead of leasing another ES. I'm really familiar with the LS seeing that my Dad had two (a 400 and a 430, not as familiar with the 460), so really more what I'm looking for is buying advice.

I have 6-7 months, so I have time to spend finding the right car. I've bought a lot of cars, but never a used one. Prices really vary greatly, I stopped by a dealer this afternoon and they had cars ranging from a $30k 77k mile 2007 to a 3k mile 2012 LS460L for $69k. Really I'd like a 2010+ because of the entertainment options, bluetooth streaming, etc that I'm used to on the ES. Price target is about $45k. They had 2010 for $50k but it was pretty rough.

I'm comfortable enough with Lexus and these cars to skip CPO, assuming I can find a good low mileage, clean car somewhere else.

I know a lot of you guys have bought used, typically how much markup do you see on these cars at the dealer prices? I know I was offered $23k for my ES from one dealer that had an identical one on the lot for $32k...and mine is in perfect shape...so I assume a lot. What kind of luck haggling down do you guys have?

Thanks in advance!

Luxofreak

I bought my car brand new. Will be selling maybe by the end of the year. It has 33K miles, no issues. I'm not advertising my car here, but I will probably ask around $40-42K for it. It's a short wheel base with all options (Mark Levinson, nav, reclining rear seats, heated and cooled, etc...). Since I have all the service history and the car has always been garaged, I believe this is an exceptional example of a well taken care of car. Sure, you can find cars like this in the mid $30k range, but I think you will get what you pay for. I have the double laminated glass on the front doors, etc... all recalls done, car is perfect. Will sell to build my GT Mulliner "fund".

Nospinzone

I have 6-7 months, so I have time to spend finding the right car ............. What kind of luck haggling down do you guys have?

Its good that you have time to really look around and get a good idea what is out there and at what price. However, it is way too early to try to make a deal. No salesman/sales manager is going to be serious with you when you can't actually buy the car for 7 months.

Of course if you see one now that you really like and its still on their lot 6 months from now, you are in primo bargaining position!

SW17LS

I can buy the car now, I just don't have to buy it now. I can trade out of my lease no problem. If the right one came along now, I'd do it.

I wouldn't even be looking if I couldn't do it now, it'd be a waste of time.

Grouchy

iTrader: (1)

My CPO was listed at 43,000 with Mark Levinson system, etc. Haggled them down to 41 with 40k miles. I'm glad I got the CPO because my car had multiple problems after I took it home.

FLYCT

I recently bought a 2009 LS Levinson/Nav CPO and traded in an 08 Toyota Avalon

Based on my recent negotiations I believe you can buy a 2010 LS w//Levinson/Nav with about 35,000 miles for $44k private party or $48k CPO. A non CPO at a dealer can save you $1,000.

If you buy a 2010 it likely will still be under factory warranty so CPO isnt as big of an advantage as long as you get a clean one. BUT for the extra $1,000 for a CPO vehicle bought from a Lexus dealer gives you a warranty value.

If you have a Carmax near you bring your ES in and they will give you an offer to buy in writing. They usually pay good money for vehicles like yours. The offer can be used as leverage to trade your car to a Lexus dealer for a used or CPO LS. I did this and traded my 08 Toyota Avalon and got $4,000 more than dealer offered.

You also don't have to wait for your lease to expire.

JR

CJITTY

I ended up paying trade in value pricing for my current car as a CPO after 30 days of negotiation lol...I plan on keeping this car a few years so I paid for the add'l two years and 25K miles brining the CPO warranty to 5yr/125K miles. The 600 has a ton of added parts that has the potential to go wrong, so even if my Levinson amp goes out, like a good amount have, it will pay for itself. I'm ok with having that security blanket and can drive the car knowing I'm good.

My previous LS460 was purchased through a broker for a very low price and still had 6K miles left on factory warranty. I received the auction report and it came back fine, then took it to dealer for inspection and it checked out fine. I paid $1K through my credit union to add an additional 60K miles to the odometer, which gave me a platinum deductible of $0 and mileage up to 104K miles or 5 years, whichever came first. I put about 20K miles on the car in two years and never had a warranty issue.

These cars are pretty solid, but if the car you get is under 4 years or 50K miles, give Toby a call 1-800-335-3987. He works at a Toyota Dealer and can give you a smokin price on a Toyota/Lexus extended warranty plan if you don't get a CPO. Very nice guy and many folks have used him here on CL and nobody could beat his pricing. Good luck!

SW17LS

Thats kind of where I feel like the market should be, but 2010 cars here are sitting on the lots for like $53k-$54k. Prices seem better elsewhere, I'd be willing to travel. There seems to be a big price chasm between a 2009 and a 2010, I assume because the 2009 right now is the typical off lease vehicle, with 2010s off 3 year leases just starting to come in. I figure once the 2013 is out and its significantly different enough that people can't buy a 2010 and pretend its a new one the values of the 2010s will come down some.

I've sold a few cars to Carmax, I'll definitely get an offer before I make a decision. Only issue there is that in MD they give you a sales tax break when you trade in. So, if I got $26k for my ES, and spent $45k on an LS, or any other car, I'd only pay sales tax on $19k, the difference if I traded the same place I bought. That saves me $1,500 in taxes, so whatever the difference between Carmax and the dealer it has to be more than $1,500.

FLYCT

Understood. Same deal in Florida you only pay sales tax on difference.

Only after negotiating the price for the CPO LS did i bring up trade. Lexus dealer initially offered me $4k less than the Carmax offer. When I presented the Carmax offer to the Lexus dealer, and after some back an forth, they finally agreed to to match the Carmax offer on the trade. This saved me $1300 in sales tax. When I arrived and test drove the car I didn't like the tires due to some scalping that caused road noise. I was ready to walk away if they didn't agree to install 4 new tires, preferably Michelins. Michelins were installed at their expense 2 days later.

I also only talk out the door price so that eliminates any BS fees they want to tack on.

I bought 2 cars recently from this Lexus dealer so they know I'm not a tire kicker.

BTW, I negotiated price from 250 miles away. There were 3 Lexus dealers around so they need to be competitive or lose the deal.

JR

patgilm

I have never had a good experience at Carmax. They offered me $4k less than what I got for my trade and it was also $2k-$3k less than wholesale. Add in the sales tax discount and it is even less.

FLYCT

Depending on the vehicle and the market your results will vary. That's why I said "usually"

I have relatives in the car business so I check Manheim auction before negotiating. Only once has Carmax offered me less than current auction prices. Surprisingly it was on a 2 year old leased RX that my daughter needed to get out of early due to divorce. Local Lexus dealer beat Carmax by $2000 and she was able to walk away with money in her pocket. That car was on the Lexus lot a week later as a CPO car.

Car buying can get confusing when trades are involved. That is why I always negotiate without a trade first then when the sale price is set bring up the trade. Then I only talk out the door price. I once traded in a 3 month old Nissan 510 wagon for a 300ZX. The contract showed a trade value value of the 510 wagon $5000 more than the original MSRP.

JR

patgilm

I have access to a Manheim account so that is where I was getting the wholesale numbers from. It wasn't even close and my car was so clean it even had clear bra all over the front, back, etc.

SW17LS

I've never had a bad experience selling a car to Carmax, I think I've probably sold them 4 cars. The last one, a Prius was way overvalued and I got basically private party for it.

Absolutely, the best way to do it is to separate the trade and the purchase...

FLYCT

I know I posted positive things about Carmax a few posts earlier but yesterday they tried to low ball be.

I have a 2004 Expedition that I wanted to sell as I am replacing it with a SC 430 that arrives from an out of town dealer on Monday.

I went to Carmax armed with Manheim results, KBB and NADA values. This is a very clean, 04 with 65k miles. Paint is original, like new tires and it looks new. It's a very straight truck. They offered me below rough trade in price. I had manager come over and give me BS that they price it so if it didn't make it to their lot they have to price it low enough in case they needed to auction it. Well I walked.

Today I went to local Lexus dealer to pick up a copy of my registration for my LS. While there i talked to the used car manager and was able to sell it to them for 30% MORE than Carmax offer. Who would have thought.

CJITTY

Whoa!! 30%?? Damn! Good work