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LS460(L) Start-up Problem...Please Help

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Old 08-24-12, 02:07 PM   #1
Dude1951
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Default LS460(L) Start-up Problem...Please Help

Hello All,

My LS460 L (2008) is having startup problems. I press the startup button but doesn't always start and sometimes it takes three attempts to get started. I took it to the dealer in Saudi (ALJ) and they changed the battery and did a full check but couldn't figure the problem. The problem is intermittent.

Please see this video that I took to give you an idea and hopefully give me some pointers: http://db.tt/o3a1wHF3

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 08-24-12, 02:23 PM   #2
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A couple of things come to mind.

One would be dirty fuel injectors. There are additives that you can put in the fuel to help with that or you could replace the fuel injectors.

The other thing that comes to mind is this TSB: http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...SB-0161-08.pdf
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Old 08-24-12, 03:47 PM   #3
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My vote is for the TSIB that Jeff posted a link to.
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Old 08-25-12, 06:28 AM   #4
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Many Thanks for posting the link to the TSB . I didnít have this problem when I bought the car back in 2008 and it only surfaced beginning of last year 2011. I will print the TSB and take it to the dealer. My car has only 56,000KM (31000 Miles) on it and it was always serviced at the dealer.

The fuel injectors have already been cleaned and the battery changed twice (end of June 2012 and on the first week of August 2012). I left on vacation and the car was in my garage for 30 days and when I returned the battery was totally drained. It didnít make any sense that a new battery that has been just installed in June 2012 drains that quickly. I took it again to the dealer and the battery was changed again (warranty) on the first week of August 2012. The dealer maintenance engineer tells me that they have checked the car for any electrical issues but couldnít find any.

I am totally puzzled and hopefully the TSB helps.
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Old 08-26-12, 09:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude1951 View Post
Many Thanks for posting the link to the TSB . I didnít have this problem when I bought the car back in 2008 and it only surfaced beginning of last year 2011. I will print the TSB and take it to the dealer. My car has only 56,000KM (31000 Miles) on it and it was always serviced at the dealer.

The fuel injectors have already been cleaned and the battery changed twice (end of June 2012 and on the first week of August 2012). I left on vacation and the car was in my garage for 30 days and when I returned the battery was totally drained. It didnít make any sense that a new battery that has been just installed in June 2012 drains that quickly. I took it again to the dealer and the battery was changed again (warranty) on the first week of August 2012. The dealer maintenance engineer tells me that they have checked the car for any electrical issues but couldnít find any.

I am totally puzzled and hopefully the TSB helps.
We see lots of these reports of "Mysterious" battery discharges. Often we hear the battery was replaced but no information as to whether any testing was done to determine if the battery was defective, or just discharged. And in some cases, like yours, we hear that the battery was recharged and continued to perform satisfactorily. And we hear that the cars are in the dealership shops for several days for analysis. What we don't hear is that anything that would cause the battery to discharge is ever found.

Leaving your car for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days should be no problem if the battery is in good shape and charged. Batteries do die of old age and an old battery may die in that period whether it is parked for a long time or not.

The LS460s are well designed as far as leaving the interior lights on or leaving a door open that keeps the interior lights on - the interior lights will go off automatically. If the Accessory power is left on, it turns off automatically too.

But, there are two conditions that can fully discharge the battery. One would be leaving the Ignition On with the engine not running. For this condition you get an audible warning (a series of short beeps) as you leave the car if you have the remote key that was used to start the car with you. If you press the lock button in the outside door handle you will get an audible warning (long beep) whether you have the remote key or not.

The other thing that can discharge the battery is the failure of the exterior lights AutoOff to complete because the car has an indication that one of the doors or trunk is not closed. This is only a problem if the exterior lights (parking lights, driving lights or headlights) are on. If you press the lock button in the outside door handle you will get an audible warning (long beep) if the car has an indication that one of the doors or trunk is not closed. But, there may be an exception to this depending on how your car is set up.

You should test your car to make sure you are going to get the audible warning for the open door/trunk. You can do it like this: with the ignition off, open a rear door and leave it open and then press the lock button on one of the closed doors - you should hear an audible indication (long beep). If you don't hear that audible warning, or if it is faint, then you will need to adjust the warning volume under the dash.

I don't have a clean picture but you can see the Volume control in this picture - it's the **** directly under the word "Accelerator."

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-27-12, 04:54 AM   #6
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Thanks Jeff for the elaborate explanation. I did test the car today and it beeps. Yesterday, I had three occasions where I had to push the start button four times to get the car started.
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Old 09-04-12, 07:44 AM   #7
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Hello Jeff... My car is at the dealer maintenance shop now and I gave them the TSB and they told me that the TSB only applies for the US Lexus cars. They think that it is a fuel injectors issue and they are going to change them. My car has only 55,000 KM on it. The dealer also suspects something wrong with the fuel pump. Total cost of fuel injector plus pump is around $2100.

There is only one dealer here for Lexus and so cannot take the car to another place.


What do you think about changing the fuel injectors ?
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Old 09-04-12, 02:11 PM   #8
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Sorry, I don't have any expertise as regards the injectors. We seem to have lots of Certified Technicians in this discussion and perhaps one of them will share their wisdom with you.

As for the applicability of the TSB, I would compare your car's VIN to those listed to see if that provides any insight.
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Old 09-04-12, 03:37 PM   #9
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Unless your car's in service date is Sep 5, 2008 or later.. then you are out of 4yr/50k mile warranty coverage. They may still help you but for a major repair like that..if it is the injectors, you may be SOL..hopefully you have ext warranty coverage
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Old 09-05-12, 10:38 PM   #10
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Thanks Jeff.... I will check the VIN.

Cjitty, What does SOL stand for?

In Saudi, the warranty is 3 years only or 100,000 KM. I paid for for extra two year warranty but it only covers major breakdowns such as gear issues, etc and doesn't include injectors.
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Old 09-05-12, 11:28 PM   #11
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I figured out the SOL... Yup, and it maybe the case.
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Old 10-17-12, 02:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude1951 View Post
I left on vacation and the car was in my garage for 30 days and when I returned the battery was totally drained. It didn’t make any sense that a new battery that has been just installed in June 2012 drains that quickly. I took it again to the dealer and the battery was changed again (warranty) on the first week of August 2012. The dealer maintenance engineer tells me that they have checked the car for any electrical issues but couldn’t find any.

I am totally puzzled and hopefully the TSB helps.
You should have them check "standby current drain". Meaning: Assuming all lights are off and the car is in a "shut down state", there is a minor current draw. This is very easy to check. I checked on my LS, 18 years ago (it had a remote start and I proved that it was the remote start which was draining the battery even in standby).

You just have to disconnect the negative and check with an ammeter. Its been nearly 18 years and I don't recall the numbers for the LS but I thought it was 30 ma or 90 ma? Again.. not sure of the number. The dealer would know what the stand by current draw is.
If you have a high current draw - such as in hundreds of milli amps, you have a problem - which can probably be traced only by the dealer. Do you have any after market electrical accessories installed? If you did - that would be the first suspect.
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Old 10-17-12, 03:37 PM   #13
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Unless the car is showing symptoms while in drive mode, I highly doubt it's the fuel pump.

If the problem is only in starting the engine, I'd start with the battery and switch. Measure the battery's voltage prior to starting the engine. If the reading is low, then the car is leaking electricity somewhere. If the battery's voltage reading is normal, check the switch.

I can't think of any other reason.
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Old 10-17-12, 07:05 PM   #14
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Unless the car is showing symptoms while in drive mode, I highly doubt it's the fuel pump.

If the problem is only in starting the engine, I'd start with the battery and switch. Measure the battery's voltage prior to starting the engine. If the reading is low, then the car is leaking electricity somewhere. If the battery's voltage reading is normal, check the switch.

I can't think of any other reason.
I had a 300zx once with same symptoms. Long crank to get it started if it sat for a while. It ended up being the fuel pump. There was a check valve in the pump and it was leaking. It seems that unless the injectors had pressurized fuel on the input side it took a few seconds to build pressure. I guess either a leaking injector or a check valve could cause loss of pressure.

If the engine failed crank only after sitting for a while this could be the cause. Putting a pressure gauge between the pump and injectors isolated my problem.

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Old 10-17-12, 09:12 PM   #15
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bad fuel pump can be the problem especially if it is not holding pressure so when you let it sit for a while the pressure would get lower and lower until it would take at least 3 to 4 times to crank because the fuel pump had to build pressure up.
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Old 10-17-12, 09:12 PM
 
 
 
 
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2008, 460, 55000, beep, checkup, engine, jump, key, lexus, lockunlock, ls, ls400, ls460, make, mile, problem, start, starting

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