WBuffettjr

I've read a few previous threads, but nothing definitive. Can folks who have driven both give me an honest opinion as to whether the LS460 is noticeably nicer than the ES350 without giving points for status?

Some of the reasons I'm considering a used ES instead of the LS is it is slightly smaller, would probably be a little cheaper to maintain, and can be had for about $14,000 less.

I've never cared much about status symbols, so that aspect isn't a factor for me at all. Why I'm considering the LS is that if it really is miles nicer, I can buy one used for just $14,000 more, and it should have about the same depreciation in actual dollars. Buying a $75,000 car for $30,000 may be a good deal, but only if it was actually worth the $75,000 to begin with for reasons other than status.

Any thoughts? Are the seats really softer/sun really brighter/sky really bluer in the LS, or should I just get the ES?

Nospinzone

Well your dad drives a Cadillac (I saw him on TV the other day driving one).

Personally I can see a real difference between the two, but I guess you have to drive both for yourself and see what you really like.

As to, "if it was actually worth the $75,000 to begin with for reasons other than status.", try comparing that price to a comparably equipped S550, 750i or A8.

WBuffettjr

Heh. Well, "dad" bought that car to show his support for GM and CEO Rick Wagoner, more than anything. Prior to that, it was a Lincoln Towncar for years and years, with a license plate that said "THRIFTY".

You're right on the other cars, and the interesting thing to me is that it looks like you can find a three year old S550 for the same price as a similarly-aged LS460, despite the S550 costing $20,000+ more when brand new. But then, I've heard too many horror stories lately about $350 oil changes, $2,500 water pumps, etc. That makes me no longer interested in the MB, and I guess it has the same effect on many others as well, which explains the depreciation discrepancy.

I initially was going back and forth, and back and forth, on the S550/S600 vs the LS460, and in the end decided it wasn't worth the risk, the hassle, and the guilty feeling of buying a car that would likely have sky high maintenance costs. My neighbor has a 7, and they have had numerous problems with the electrical system and other things. So I think I'm going to stay in the Lexus family, now it's a question of where in that family.

kitchamp

IMHO, I think the LS is worth every penny. I know I have driven several as loan cars while mine was in for service, and every time I get back in my own, it does feel different. A larger physical size gives benefits in the ride quality department; the LS seems to swallow bumps and the road noise is quieter (although several owners experience the notorious wind noise on the 2007 models, there are fixes--thanks jmcraney). I like the smaller differences, such as the way all the switches and clock match in color tone (I think the clock on the ES has a different green color). Sounds small and petty, I know, but its little things like that I feel set the LS apart other than its size and "status symbol". Also don't forget the "toys" like power close doors, self park, air suspension, etc. that the LS has.

But if size is truly important to you, a fully load ES350 ultra has many of the options that LS has. My parents have an ES ultra, and they love it. They had an LS430 before, but wanted a smaller car. You are also correct that the ES has lower maintenance cost, as well as lower fuel consumption. Both cars are great choices, so good luck to you!

cheez80

iTrader: (1)

like kitchamp says, the devil is in the details, no?

but with that said, the ES is a great car. had one as a loaner a few months ago and i thought it was awesome. now if only it were RWD...

WBuffettjr

Kitchcamp,

Thanks for your great reply. I was thinking I may prefer the smaller size because I live and work in an urban environment, space may sometimes limit options in parking, etc. Would you say the size of the LS is ever cumbersome for you, or has it not really been an issue?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

it's not even a comparison. ls460 is far better

John_R

I've come from owning a BMW and as you stated that car is a nightmare. MB was not so bad compared to the BMW but still very expensive to maintain and dealer service not that great. My neighbour has a 2005 A8 and just got hit with a $12,000 repair bill, his engine or something had to be replaced out of warranty.

It all depends what you are looking for in a car. I personally moved over from an MB CL550 (lease) to an LS460 and never looked back. I chose the LS because I am always on the road.

The LS is much more reliable and maintenance cost is less then what a German counter part would cost you. I like the feel and ride of an LS, the MB ride was a little harsher more sport oriented then the LS.

However it was the fact that the MB had to stay at the dealer on different occasions that made me jump ship to Lexus in the end.

Put it this way I wanted a rolling living room and it's what I got with the LS plus the Mark Levinson sound system is the added bonus.

As long as you maintain your car correctly you don't have to worry about the high costs of dealer service. If you are a DIY then you're saving more.

ES or LS I'd take the LS always.

I8ABMR

They are not even on the same level. When I drive the RX or ES I feel that they are nice, but when you drive an LS you realize they are not as smooth or well insulated as the LS. The ride is not as nice and there is less room. The power of the LS mixed with the 8 speed will make it more fun as well. No comparison. The LS will win 100 times out 100

Lextrician

es based off camry???? ls based off of what??? no comparison go big or go home im sure with the es you will hace to find that car w the options you like compared to the ls which less packages n damn near come fully equip.

kitchamp

With the reverse camera and the parking sensors front and back, parking was never an issue. Granted I did come from a Ford Expedition, but the LS doesn't drive like the yacht it is. I do understand that a larger car, despite your superior parking skills, doesn't make the car a smaller target for door dings and other scrapes. No one doubts that there is more sheetmetal on the LS to hit.

I echo the others in saying that the best way is to drive both and the difference will become apparent to you. Also since you are buying used, a fully loaded ES ultra is harder to find if you are looking for all the toys.

As you can already see, asking this question in this forum is a loaded question

NobleSpine

I have jumped from ES350 to LS460L, the ride quality is significantly different in LS. For the first two weeks driving the LS, I did feel that it is heavy and underpowered, but gradually i have come to like it very much.
When I got into an ES350 (loaner), I could feel the difference, big time.

For me the the Long wheel base was worth it, riders in the back really have the best in class leg room. MPG is avg 22 for me only 3 lower than 350. I also like the ML sound system and HDD audio.

If one can afford it, I woud recommend 2010 LS, mine is 2007.

Mikey100

It's difficult to add to this. This comparison really not even possible to "judge," or base on personal desires and tastes. It's more like .... Do ya wanna ride a donkey going down to the supermarket, or ride in the throws of luxury, in a wonderfully crafted piece of art that is NOT all that large. Honeslty. The LS doesn't drive any "larger" than an Avalon. But it feels so much nicer. Because it is.

Once again, to quote a wise man .... "It's not even a comparison. The LS460 is far better !" -

Best Wishes regardless of your choice and do please return and let us know how you do.
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

marky2mark

Like others have said, there is no comparison. I had a ES as a loaner for a day, it's not even in the same league in terms of quiet ride, comfort, build quality. Same with RX. To be honest, other than the LS, the rest of the Lexus line is unimpressive in my opinion. I guess I'm just spoiled.....

Dema

First ES is facelifted Camry, when I owned ES I was in situation when Camry had more features. So seriously take Camry. If you came with the question, then Camry is better, and you can save money taking it new.