New LS or Tesla Model S?
05-24-16, 06:16 PM
#62
Pole Position
did you buy the tesla? i know interior is kinda crappy compared to lexus but no gas? pretty much drives it self -i am thinking of buying a tesla by end of the year or into the next year, possibly the P90D
While my 2007 LS is still running great, it's getting time to start looking at "what next?".
When it came out, the 2007 LS had multiple technology breakthroughs (parking assistance, large display, HDD music, ...). But other models have caught up and surpassed the LS. Will the new model re-establish the leadership of the LS model over its competition?
On the other hand, the new Tesla Model S looks very interesting. Of course, they are still finalizing the design of the car - so it's hard to be sure what they will end up when they go into production later this year. But what they are showing looks very promising - a number of areas where they have some interesting technology - plus all-electric with a 300 mile range and performance with 0-60 in 4.4 or 5.6 seconds.
The projected cost of ownership of the two models (based on vehicle cost and annual fuel costs) is about the same - though the maintenance costs on the Tesla may be lower, since the electric motors replacing the engine, transmission and exhaust system are rated for 500,000 miles and probably will not need as much maintenance as a gas engine.
Hopefully the new LS will be coming out late this year - and that we'll start getting more details soon...
When it came out, the 2007 LS had multiple technology breakthroughs (parking assistance, large display, HDD music, ...). But other models have caught up and surpassed the LS. Will the new model re-establish the leadership of the LS model over its competition?
On the other hand, the new Tesla Model S looks very interesting. Of course, they are still finalizing the design of the car - so it's hard to be sure what they will end up when they go into production later this year. But what they are showing looks very promising - a number of areas where they have some interesting technology - plus all-electric with a 300 mile range and performance with 0-60 in 4.4 or 5.6 seconds.
The projected cost of ownership of the two models (based on vehicle cost and annual fuel costs) is about the same - though the maintenance costs on the Tesla may be lower, since the electric motors replacing the engine, transmission and exhaust system are rated for 500,000 miles and probably will not need as much maintenance as a gas engine.
Hopefully the new LS will be coming out late this year - and that we'll start getting more details soon...
05-25-16, 09:37 AM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
I just recently saw the Model S as well as the new smaller SUV Tesla has out, up close and personal this past weekend.
The way the show room was situated, when walking through the entry door, the S was off to the left, the uncovered frame with mechanics exposed in the middle and the new SUV off to the right.
Positives:
I will say that visually, they are stunning and very eye catching. If you are one to be completely enamored by the console lay-out and allow the "toys" to be the selling point for you, the Tesla will have you at the door asking "where do I sign".
It is definitely a technological haven.
Negatives:
I find that the materials used overall on both models, along with how well the car was put together on a smaller, more finite scale, was sub-par in comparison to the LS.
Things as simple as the weight of the door, the insulation around the doors (thin, flex-type rubber), the feel of the leather, the firm, narrow appearance and feel of the seats, the materials used on the dash and the buttons felt and looked cheap. Even the liner used on the flooring seemed thin and unsubstantial.
Then when paying close attention to the front-end suspension, though people may not like the over-all design of the "4 Control Arm" application adopted by the LS, sway bar linkage and the multi-routed/multi-directional suspension parts, it all comes together in a very cohesive fashion to make for a nearly unmatched ride experience.
Now, I do understand that I am comparing the suspension of two very different vehicles, but even when taking into consideration the make up and arrangement of the parts, it still seems sparse.
The upper arms on the Tesla appeared to be a single wish-bone arm with a fairly frail bushing, although the bushing on the lower control arm where it seemed to connect to the frame was gigantic on one end.
Has anyone driven an S?
I'd be curious to know how they drive.
The way the show room was situated, when walking through the entry door, the S was off to the left, the uncovered frame with mechanics exposed in the middle and the new SUV off to the right.
Positives:
I will say that visually, they are stunning and very eye catching. If you are one to be completely enamored by the console lay-out and allow the "toys" to be the selling point for you, the Tesla will have you at the door asking "where do I sign".
It is definitely a technological haven.
Negatives:
I find that the materials used overall on both models, along with how well the car was put together on a smaller, more finite scale, was sub-par in comparison to the LS.
Things as simple as the weight of the door, the insulation around the doors (thin, flex-type rubber), the feel of the leather, the firm, narrow appearance and feel of the seats, the materials used on the dash and the buttons felt and looked cheap. Even the liner used on the flooring seemed thin and unsubstantial.
Then when paying close attention to the front-end suspension, though people may not like the over-all design of the "4 Control Arm" application adopted by the LS, sway bar linkage and the multi-routed/multi-directional suspension parts, it all comes together in a very cohesive fashion to make for a nearly unmatched ride experience.
Now, I do understand that I am comparing the suspension of two very different vehicles, but even when taking into consideration the make up and arrangement of the parts, it still seems sparse.
The upper arms on the Tesla appeared to be a single wish-bone arm with a fairly frail bushing, although the bushing on the lower control arm where it seemed to connect to the frame was gigantic on one end.
Has anyone driven an S?
I'd be curious to know how they drive.
05-26-16, 03:27 PM
#64
Intermediate
Living in the Bay Area I see more than a few Tesla Model S cars every day. They're very slick looking...and they're selling well here in the place where they're made.
But they're simply not my cup 'o tea, I don't want to be constantly looking at remaining battery life and worrying about where I'm going to plug in next.
I recently upgraded from a '97 LS400 to a '12 LS460 Sport, so I'm going to be very happy for a very long time...I don't need a ton of tech in my car to drive around. My '97 still drove like a fairly modern car, less the bluetooth integration (important) and other non-essential bells and whistles.
So to answer the OP's question, if I was going to spend the big $$$ on a new car, I'd take the new LS over the Tesla. Gas is cheap and will probably remain so for quite awhile, so there's really no reason to ditch the fossil fuel cars any time soon unless one feels compelled to have the latest and greatest automotive wizardry.
But they're simply not my cup 'o tea, I don't want to be constantly looking at remaining battery life and worrying about where I'm going to plug in next.
I recently upgraded from a '97 LS400 to a '12 LS460 Sport, so I'm going to be very happy for a very long time...I don't need a ton of tech in my car to drive around. My '97 still drove like a fairly modern car, less the bluetooth integration (important) and other non-essential bells and whistles.
So to answer the OP's question, if I was going to spend the big $$$ on a new car, I'd take the new LS over the Tesla. Gas is cheap and will probably remain so for quite awhile, so there's really no reason to ditch the fossil fuel cars any time soon unless one feels compelled to have the latest and greatest automotive wizardry.
Last edited by seanl; 05-26-16 at 03:33 PM.
05-27-16, 05:25 AM
#65
Pit Crew
I test drove Tesla S (P85). Few things I noticed
Its a smaller car, very fast, yet very light. Seems like that I was driving a fast go cart. The quality of materials used was not so luxurious to me. The seats were terrible. I was told that they do offer better seats now, however that option was not available on the vehicle I drove. I was in market for my wife's car who drives about 140 miles every day to work. Despite this high mileage, yet the math was not in our favor for an electric car.
So if someone really wants to be green, then Tesla is a good option. I ended up buying a CPO LS460L. With 7 years unlimited mile warranty, even with gas we would be ahead in savings, yet driving a most comfortable car. Plus don't have to worry about charging it every day.
Its a smaller car, very fast, yet very light. Seems like that I was driving a fast go cart. The quality of materials used was not so luxurious to me. The seats were terrible. I was told that they do offer better seats now, however that option was not available on the vehicle I drove. I was in market for my wife's car who drives about 140 miles every day to work. Despite this high mileage, yet the math was not in our favor for an electric car.
So if someone really wants to be green, then Tesla is a good option. I ended up buying a CPO LS460L. With 7 years unlimited mile warranty, even with gas we would be ahead in savings, yet driving a most comfortable car. Plus don't have to worry about charging it every day.
I just recently saw the Model S as well as the new smaller SUV Tesla has out, up close and personal this past weekend.
The way the show room was situated, when walking through the entry door, the S was off to the left, the uncovered frame with mechanics exposed in the middle and the new SUV off to the right.
Positives:
I will say that visually, they are stunning and very eye catching. If you are one to be completely enamored by the console lay-out and allow the "toys" to be the selling point for you, the Tesla will have you at the door asking "where do I sign".
It is definitely a technological haven.
Negatives:
I find that the materials used overall on both models, along with how well the car was put together on a smaller, more finite scale, was sub-par in comparison to the LS.
Things as simple as the weight of the door, the insulation around the doors (thin, flex-type rubber), the feel of the leather, the firm, narrow appearance and feel of the seats, the materials used on the dash and the buttons felt and looked cheap. Even the liner used on the flooring seemed thin and unsubstantial.
Then when paying close attention to the front-end suspension, though people may not like the over-all design of the "4 Control Arm" application adopted by the LS, sway bar linkage and the multi-routed/multi-directional suspension parts, it all comes together in a very cohesive fashion to make for a nearly unmatched ride experience.
Now, I do understand that I am comparing the suspension of two very different vehicles, but even when taking into consideration the make up and arrangement of the parts, it still seems sparse.
The upper arms on the Tesla appeared to be a single wish-bone arm with a fairly frail bushing, although the bushing on the lower control arm where it seemed to connect to the frame was gigantic on one end.
Has anyone driven an S?
I'd be curious to know how they drive.
The way the show room was situated, when walking through the entry door, the S was off to the left, the uncovered frame with mechanics exposed in the middle and the new SUV off to the right.
Positives:
I will say that visually, they are stunning and very eye catching. If you are one to be completely enamored by the console lay-out and allow the "toys" to be the selling point for you, the Tesla will have you at the door asking "where do I sign".
It is definitely a technological haven.
Negatives:
I find that the materials used overall on both models, along with how well the car was put together on a smaller, more finite scale, was sub-par in comparison to the LS.
Things as simple as the weight of the door, the insulation around the doors (thin, flex-type rubber), the feel of the leather, the firm, narrow appearance and feel of the seats, the materials used on the dash and the buttons felt and looked cheap. Even the liner used on the flooring seemed thin and unsubstantial.
Then when paying close attention to the front-end suspension, though people may not like the over-all design of the "4 Control Arm" application adopted by the LS, sway bar linkage and the multi-routed/multi-directional suspension parts, it all comes together in a very cohesive fashion to make for a nearly unmatched ride experience.
Now, I do understand that I am comparing the suspension of two very different vehicles, but even when taking into consideration the make up and arrangement of the parts, it still seems sparse.
The upper arms on the Tesla appeared to be a single wish-bone arm with a fairly frail bushing, although the bushing on the lower control arm where it seemed to connect to the frame was gigantic on one end.
Has anyone driven an S?
I'd be curious to know how they drive.
Last edited by sfuad; 05-27-16 at 05:28 AM.
05-27-16, 07:01 AM
#66
Pole Position
Saw one earlier in the week. Just hope they still had a few hundred miles left on the battery. I'd be afraid to run out of juice before I could get to a charging station. (That is if I could find one).
05-27-16, 08:14 AM
#67
Intermediate
05-27-16, 08:24 AM
#68
These concerns are extremely valid. Which is why if I were going to go electric (and yes, I would consider doing that), I would go with the Chevy Volt and nothing else. It is truly an electric vehicle, but is paired with a gas engine as a back-up. Before you poo-poo this. It really is a better concept than even the Prius. And this is why I think so.
If a person (like me) has a very short drive to work, or a drive that is maybe 20 miles or less to work, a Volt is going to get you there and back without ever cranking the gas engine. And when the engine does crank, it does NOT power the car. It powers a generator that powers the electric vehicle.
If I were to own a Volt, I would have to put Sta-Bil in the gas, to keep it from going bad. Because my commute is so short, I could go all week to work and back, without recharging my Volt. Guys on Volt forums are going for mpg records. They've probably got it in the thousands of mpg, because they're doing just exactly like I'm suggesting. They go to extremes to prevent the battery from draining too far down, to necessitate the cranking of the gas engine. You cannot prevent the gas engine from cranking in a Prius. And the Prius gas engine helps power the drivetrain.
But ... let's say, I'm at home with my Volt, and my mother calls and says, "your dad just had an accident, he's in the hospital, you gotta get up here now" ... that would suck of course. Yet if I have a Volt or Prius, and have to drive 350 miles lickity split, either car can do it. Same scenario with a Tesla or Leaf, I'm screwed.
This may be a rare scenario, but I'm certain there are many other real life situations that's going to make owning a Leaf or Tesla (without owning a 2nd vehicle) a real PITA.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Tesla and Leaf are GREAT. But the infrastructure support is not up to snuff just yet in my opinion.
Currently, electric vehicle owners can really reduce their taxes paid, by avoiding gas taxes. Which I think is fantabulous, don't blame electric vehicle owners at all for trying to avoid taxes. However, Uncle Sam, he's working hard to shore up that loss. It won't be long and every state will have some kind of tax based on miles driven, or something along those lines. It's already happening.
If a person (like me) has a very short drive to work, or a drive that is maybe 20 miles or less to work, a Volt is going to get you there and back without ever cranking the gas engine. And when the engine does crank, it does NOT power the car. It powers a generator that powers the electric vehicle.
If I were to own a Volt, I would have to put Sta-Bil in the gas, to keep it from going bad. Because my commute is so short, I could go all week to work and back, without recharging my Volt. Guys on Volt forums are going for mpg records. They've probably got it in the thousands of mpg, because they're doing just exactly like I'm suggesting. They go to extremes to prevent the battery from draining too far down, to necessitate the cranking of the gas engine. You cannot prevent the gas engine from cranking in a Prius. And the Prius gas engine helps power the drivetrain.
But ... let's say, I'm at home with my Volt, and my mother calls and says, "your dad just had an accident, he's in the hospital, you gotta get up here now" ... that would suck of course. Yet if I have a Volt or Prius, and have to drive 350 miles lickity split, either car can do it. Same scenario with a Tesla or Leaf, I'm screwed.
This may be a rare scenario, but I'm certain there are many other real life situations that's going to make owning a Leaf or Tesla (without owning a 2nd vehicle) a real PITA.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Tesla and Leaf are GREAT. But the infrastructure support is not up to snuff just yet in my opinion.
Currently, electric vehicle owners can really reduce their taxes paid, by avoiding gas taxes. Which I think is fantabulous, don't blame electric vehicle owners at all for trying to avoid taxes. However, Uncle Sam, he's working hard to shore up that loss. It won't be long and every state will have some kind of tax based on miles driven, or something along those lines. It's already happening.
05-27-16, 08:42 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
But ... let's say, I'm at home with my Volt, and my mother calls and says, "your dad just had an accident, he's in the hospital, you gotta get up here now" ... that would suck of course. Yet if I have a Volt or Prius, and have to drive 350 miles lickity split, either car can do it. Same scenario with a Tesla or Leaf, I'm screwed.
05-27-16, 11:00 AM
#70
Pole Position
7milesout
Great points. I agree with everything you said except one thing. It will not happen in all states. You will not see it in states that you need to drive 30-40 miles one way to get a loaf of bread or a 1/2 gallon of milk. You will see it in states that are not run well like CA who have run up huge debt and are looking to get folks to bend over and grab their ankles again. The electric car has a place in the US but just not everywhere. I drove 1900 miles from 11am on a Thursday until 6:30pm on Saturday and with todays electric cars that is just not going to happen.
Dennis
Dennis
Great points. I agree with everything you said except one thing. It will not happen in all states. You will not see it in states that you need to drive 30-40 miles one way to get a loaf of bread or a 1/2 gallon of milk. You will see it in states that are not run well like CA who have run up huge debt and are looking to get folks to bend over and grab their ankles again. The electric car has a place in the US but just not everywhere. I drove 1900 miles from 11am on a Thursday until 6:30pm on Saturday and with todays electric cars that is just not going to happen.
Dennis
Dennis
05-27-16, 12:40 PM
#71
Dennis - While I agree with you, I tend to lean toward believing that those states that are more spread out, their mileage tax will be much lower, than say CA. But may exist, so it's on the books, even if it is small.
Some smart company out there needs to figure out a way to stop electronic odometers from rolling. Crap, in the future, they'll have cars transmit their mileage data directly to the gobment. That's when 7milesout rides a bicycle!
We gotta keep our old school vehicles on the road!
Some smart company out there needs to figure out a way to stop electronic odometers from rolling. Crap, in the future, they'll have cars transmit their mileage data directly to the gobment. That's when 7milesout rides a bicycle!
We gotta keep our old school vehicles on the road!
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LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017)
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