Hesitation on Acceleration
03-28-15, 05:34 AM
#91
Pole Position
Mobil one oil's are real synthetic in the classical sense being PAO-based. Redline oil is also synthetic being mostly ester based which is a lot stronger but that doesn't mean much because it hasn't been proven to be better overall as a good street oil, only good in theory. Amsoil is also PAO-based and they derive their base stocks for Mobil. Castrol on the other hand was selling their hydrocrack oil which is a refining technology of harvesting petroleum oil, also known as group 3. Castrol was using the name synthetic loosely for this oil that was only manufactured for the North American market specifically for America because of laxed standards not found in Europe.
Mobil has taken Castrol to court over this and lost. A few years later many of the other conventional oil manufactures started to make their own version of group 3 oil because the process is cheap and the consumer would not be aware as long it said synthetic on the bottle. It was only discovered on used oil analysis from members on bob is the oil guy that showed the basestocks are not as important because The formulations of some of these group 3 oils was putting Mobil one to shame.
Royal Purple on the other hand is not bad oil, it's the worst oil for the money being that it is a marketing gimmick. If the purple color was a byproduct of some process when making the oil then it would be novel and incidental but the fact that they purposely add dye to their oil to sell it, is quiet telling.
Mobil has taken Castrol to court over this and lost. A few years later many of the other conventional oil manufactures started to make their own version of group 3 oil because the process is cheap and the consumer would not be aware as long it said synthetic on the bottle. It was only discovered on used oil analysis from members on bob is the oil guy that showed the basestocks are not as important because The formulations of some of these group 3 oils was putting Mobil one to shame.
Royal Purple on the other hand is not bad oil, it's the worst oil for the money being that it is a marketing gimmick. If the purple color was a byproduct of some process when making the oil then it would be novel and incidental but the fact that they purposely add dye to their oil to sell it, is quiet telling.
I do frequent bob is the oil guy quite often. I like looking at the used oil analysis's of some of the top brands. I think a lot of it has to do with driving conditions, engine, weather, etc. The Mobil 1 EP I would say is solid, but not worthy of being called a 15k mile oil. Oil analysis doesn't show a high TBN over 7k miles on many of the UOA from varying vehicles. I would expect more from an oil like that, but I think you could get away with 10k mile services on it. From what I've seen from TGMO in UOA's, it does not fare much better in terms of remaining additive in similar mileage conditions.
I imagine with the sump being so large in the LS 460, it should be much easier on oil compared to other cars. Plus - at least with me - the rpm's hardly ever venture past the 2k rpm range (I do a lot of highway driving).
03-28-15, 08:45 AM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
Penzoil "synthetic" Ultra or Platinum is great oil for the money and probably the best non real synthetic oil
03-28-15, 02:04 PM
#93
Pole Position
I personally have never used Penzoil Ultra, but it is considered the Unicorn of all Unicorns, in terms of oil. And when I say unicorn, I'm talking in magical/fictional terms...the very terms that people speak of regarding oil, when oil is just a fluid that lubricates, cleans and protects...before it gets saturated with carbon, water, silicone, sodium and other non pleasant things that turn it into crud rather quickly.
Another very popular unicorn oil is Toyota Genuine Motor Oil, which I do use and like. Why do I like it? I have no idea, but I like it, it makes me feel good and that's all that matters. Plus it seemed to not "burn" as much as other products...went 5k miles without using much...maybe a quarter of a quart. I'm about 6k miles into it now and all seems well. I would personally give the Ultra a try if it was on sale and I could get my hands on it...only because it is widely considered the Holy Grail of oil.
03-28-15, 02:15 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
I would venture to guess the Penzoil cleaned something in your engine that maybe your engine didn't like having cleaned...and dislodged something into your VVT system. Penzoil is one of those synthetic oils that is known for it's cleaning properties. Did your engine have problems before you used it? Consume a lot of oil, etc? If your engine consumed a lot of oil there's a chance your rings could have been a bit gummed up...especially the oil ring return passages, causing a consumption problem. The Ultra could have really shook some of that loose.
I personally have never used Penzoil Ultra, but it is considered the Unicorn of all Unicorns, in terms of oil. And when I say unicorn, I'm talking in magical/fictional terms...the very terms that people speak of regarding oil, when oil is just a fluid that lubricates, cleans and protects...before it gets saturated with carbon, water, silicone, sodium and other non pleasant things that turn it into crud rather quickly.
Another very popular unicorn oil is Toyota Genuine Motor Oil, which I do use and like. Why do I like it? I have no idea, but I like it, it makes me feel good and that's all that matters. Plus it seemed to not "burn" as much as other products...went 5k miles without using much...maybe a quarter of a quart. I'm about 6k miles into it now and all seems well. I would personally give the Ultra a try if it was on sale and I could get my hands on it...only because it is widely considered the Holy Grail of oil.
I personally have never used Penzoil Ultra, but it is considered the Unicorn of all Unicorns, in terms of oil. And when I say unicorn, I'm talking in magical/fictional terms...the very terms that people speak of regarding oil, when oil is just a fluid that lubricates, cleans and protects...before it gets saturated with carbon, water, silicone, sodium and other non pleasant things that turn it into crud rather quickly.
Another very popular unicorn oil is Toyota Genuine Motor Oil, which I do use and like. Why do I like it? I have no idea, but I like it, it makes me feel good and that's all that matters. Plus it seemed to not "burn" as much as other products...went 5k miles without using much...maybe a quarter of a quart. I'm about 6k miles into it now and all seems well. I would personally give the Ultra a try if it was on sale and I could get my hands on it...only because it is widely considered the Holy Grail of oil.
03-28-15, 05:19 PM
#95
Yeah I knew that about Castrol and I kind of figured that the additive package was more important than the base stocks - and probably where the cost of the oil increases, etc.
I do frequent bob is the oil guy quite often. I like looking at the used oil analysis's of some of the top brands. I think a lot of it has to do with driving conditions, engine, weather, etc. The Mobil 1 EP I would say is solid, but not worthy of being called a 15k mile oil. Oil analysis doesn't show a high TBN over 7k miles on many of the UOA from varying vehicles. I would expect more from an oil like that, but I think you could get away with 10k mile services on it. From what I've seen from TGMO in UOA's, it does not fare much better in terms of remaining additive in similar mileage conditions.
I imagine with the sump being so large in the LS 460, it should be much easier on oil compared to other cars. Plus - at least with me - the rpm's hardly ever venture past the 2k rpm range (I do a lot of highway driving).
I do frequent bob is the oil guy quite often. I like looking at the used oil analysis's of some of the top brands. I think a lot of it has to do with driving conditions, engine, weather, etc. The Mobil 1 EP I would say is solid, but not worthy of being called a 15k mile oil. Oil analysis doesn't show a high TBN over 7k miles on many of the UOA from varying vehicles. I would expect more from an oil like that, but I think you could get away with 10k mile services on it. From what I've seen from TGMO in UOA's, it does not fare much better in terms of remaining additive in similar mileage conditions.
I imagine with the sump being so large in the LS 460, it should be much easier on oil compared to other cars. Plus - at least with me - the rpm's hardly ever venture past the 2k rpm range (I do a lot of highway driving).
The best oil you can buy is the best oil for the money not necessarily the best oil.
Last edited by Devh; 03-28-15 at 05:29 PM.
03-28-15, 05:27 PM
#96
If you would have used Toyota Synthetic it probably would have cause the issue as well until the engine varnish was eliminated.
I actually use Pennzoil Synthetic in my Honda and I recommend the oil to friends and family for all non Toyota cars. .
03-28-15, 05:35 PM
#97
Pole Position
I'm going to have to agree with Doublebase in that the ultra or whatever synthetic oil that came before it started cleaning off the deposits which got trapped in your VVT screens. This was a good thing but it seems that you expedited the process of cleaning by using an additive.
If you would have used Toyota Synthetic it probably would have cause the issue as well until the engine varnish was eliminated.
I actually use Pennzoil Synthetic in my Honda and I recommend the oil to friends and family for all non Toyota cars. .
If you would have used Toyota Synthetic it probably would have cause the issue as well until the engine varnish was eliminated.
I actually use Pennzoil Synthetic in my Honda and I recommend the oil to friends and family for all non Toyota cars. .
I imagine he bought the car used with somewhere around 50-60k miles on it and the previous owners were using whatever cheap conventional oil the dealer was throwing in it...add in a few too many miles between changes=a little too much varnish. Then when roadfrog started using the good stuff...quality synthetics that clean...deposits got into the VVT.
Either way it appears the problem is gone and he's using a high quality oil now.
03-28-15, 05:42 PM
#98
I imagine he bought the car used with somewhere around 50-60k miles on it and the previous owners were using whatever cheap conventional oil the dealer was throwing in it...add in a few too many miles between changes=a little too much varnish. Then when roadfrog started using the good stuff...quality synthetics that clean...deposits got into the VVT.
Either way it appears the problem is gone and he's using a high quality oil now.
Either way it appears the problem is gone and he's using a high quality oil now.
Since then I have been obsessed with engine oil.
03-28-15, 05:44 PM
#99
Pole Position
I often wondered about having a large sumps contribution to extended the change and it would be interesting to see if the large capacity is needed because our engines not only have a lot more area to lubricate but also because it's harder on oil.
The best oil you can buy is the best oil for the money not necessarily the best oil.
The best oil you can buy is the best oil for the money not necessarily the best oil.
I was tempted to buy Quaker State full synthetic, it's made by the same manufacturer as Penzoil and the price is only $21.00 for a five quart jug, but I spent an extra few bucks for the extended performance Mobil 1, figuring it could go longer.
03-28-15, 05:50 PM
#100
Pole Position
I blew an engine on a Dodge Stealth in 2000 after purchasing the car used and changing the oil. It turns out the owner put in cheap dino oil all it's life and when I changed to synthetic it dislodged all of the varnish build up and clogged all of my galleries. first i heard loud valves followed by rod knock.
Since then I have been obsessed with engine oil.
Since then I have been obsessed with engine oil.
I'm kind of obsessed with oil too...and maintenance in general. I'm a bit old fashioned though, I'm probably one of the few guys on here that doesn't go 10k miles between changes, even though I think it's probably fine to do so. I get the itch to change it around 5k, but let it go a couple thousand more.
03-28-15, 06:19 PM
#101
Wow that's crazy! That engine must have been filthy to clog oil galleries, connecting rods, etc. some engines are prone to sludge, etc, I wonder if that was one of them? It was the 3.8, right? Toyota has some sludge monsters as well. Audi is famous for them (along with consumption problems).
I'm kind of obsessed with oil too...and maintenance in general. I'm a bit old fashioned though, I'm probably one of the few guys on here that doesn't go 10k miles between changes, even though I think it's probably fine to do so. I get the itch to change it around 5k, but let it go a couple thousand more.
I'm kind of obsessed with oil too...and maintenance in general. I'm a bit old fashioned though, I'm probably one of the few guys on here that doesn't go 10k miles between changes, even though I think it's probably fine to do so. I get the itch to change it around 5k, but let it go a couple thousand more.
Though this whole ordeal I learned some great experience that only benefited me in the long run and has made me a walking conversational irritating "know it all" about cars in general.
I think my BMW experience was was a good one to have for all the wrong reasons. I now understand how marketing plays into getting taken. When a Asian car has a problem it's a POS but when a European car has a problem it's a quirk and if it's Italian it's a personality trait.
03-28-15, 07:58 PM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
I imagine he bought the car used with somewhere around 50-60k miles on it and the previous owners were using whatever cheap conventional oil the dealer was throwing in it...add in a few too many miles between changes=a little too much varnish. Then when roadfrog started using the good stuff...quality synthetics that clean...deposits got into the VVT.
Either way it appears the problem is gone and he's using a high quality oil now.
Either way it appears the problem is gone and he's using a high quality oil now.
03-29-15, 05:02 AM
#103
Pole Position
I bought it with 60k miles. According to Lexus Service records, it was serviced regularly with Toyota 5W20 synthetic. Regardless, (like you said), the issue went away on my third change when going to the Toyota 0W20 and the Toyota Engine Oil System Cleaner. I just have a feeling it had more to do with the viscosity change or additive packages unique to the Toyota oil. I'm looking forward to the next oil change and sending a sample to Blackstone.
If you send them a virgin oil sample they can tell you where your TBN is starting at (should be 9 or above). Some oils start high in TBN, but the additives wear out faster than expected and some start lower, but manage to hold on to them during the interval.
I'm glad the oil has stopped your problem, personally I tend to use the highest quality oil that's on sale. Right now I have the Toyota stuff in it, but I just bought some Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil because it was on sale.
There is someone on this thread that swears replacing the heads stops the hesitation issue, be glad that's not what you had to do! Holy crap! That would have cost you 8k! Supposedly the valve guides wear, causing the valves to move enough in their guides to cause a vibration that activates the knock sensors. I imagine this would also lead to some serious oil consumption and eventual valve system/engine failure. Imagine if a valve broke and ended up hitting a piston? Especially on an engine this complicated and powerful? Disaster.
03-29-15, 06:39 AM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
How many miles do you go between changes? I'm curious to see how the TGMO holds up during extended drains. If you use Blackstone labs there is a a reading that lets you know how much active additive there is left in your oil, it's called the TBN - usually it needs to be above 2 (I think) at the end of your interval. If the number drops bellow that Blackstone will tell you there isn't much active additives left in your oil and perhaps you went too far, etc.
If you send them a virgin oil sample they can tell you where your TBN is starting at (should be 9 or above). Some oils start high in TBN, but the additives wear out faster than expected and some start lower, but manage to hold on to them during the interval.
I'm glad the oil has stopped your problem, personally I tend to use the highest quality oil that's on sale. Right now I have the Toyota stuff in it, but I just bought some Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil because it was on sale.
There is someone on this thread that swears replacing the heads stops the hesitation issue, be glad that's not what you had to do! Holy crap! That would have cost you 8k! Supposedly the valve guides wear, causing the valves to move enough in their guides to cause a vibration that activates the knock sensors. I imagine this would also lead to some serious oil consumption and eventual valve system/engine failure. Imagine if a valve broke and ended up hitting a piston? Especially on an engine this complicated and powerful? Disaster.
If you send them a virgin oil sample they can tell you where your TBN is starting at (should be 9 or above). Some oils start high in TBN, but the additives wear out faster than expected and some start lower, but manage to hold on to them during the interval.
I'm glad the oil has stopped your problem, personally I tend to use the highest quality oil that's on sale. Right now I have the Toyota stuff in it, but I just bought some Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil because it was on sale.
There is someone on this thread that swears replacing the heads stops the hesitation issue, be glad that's not what you had to do! Holy crap! That would have cost you 8k! Supposedly the valve guides wear, causing the valves to move enough in their guides to cause a vibration that activates the knock sensors. I imagine this would also lead to some serious oil consumption and eventual valve system/engine failure. Imagine if a valve broke and ended up hitting a piston? Especially on an engine this complicated and powerful? Disaster.
I've useed Blackstone for about 13 years and have always valued the info they provided. Worth the 20 bucks or so.
I am aware of the TSB referencing the head replacement. However I also read a couple of posts from members who had the work done and stated that the problem was not corrected afterwards. Regardless, my problem is solved as you said.
03-29-15, 06:59 AM
#105
I have a four, almost five month old 14 LS460L AWD . What oil is the factory fill, the Toyota oil referenced here? Dealer does first two oil changes on his dime, what oil will he likely use? Or what oil should I specify he use?
Thanks
Thanks