It's about time to swap the brakes
07-27-10, 09:38 PM
#1
It's about time to swap the brakes
What do most LS460 owners do with their brake swaps-- I have the touring package on my '07 and want to be sure that the job is done well without spending an exorbitant amont of money.
08-06-10, 01:54 PM
#3
I have about 50K miles on my 2007ls and hope to get another 20-30K miles on the original brakes. I plan do do my own brakes - the pads for the front cost about $70. These pads are different from the pads on all the other Toyota's I have owned. They have two pins that go through the pads that have to be removed.
How much have you guys paid for a brake job at the dealers?
Has anyone done their own brakes?
How much have you guys paid for a brake job at the dealers?
Has anyone done their own brakes?
08-06-10, 06:31 PM
#5
ill let you know this weekend, I am replacing the fronts and the rears, I was so impressed with the ceramics for my wifes S430 that I am going to replace mine. They are the factory pads that came with the CPO, so I know the rotors etc are good, I was going to swap the pads for the DuraLast ceramics and see how much different they make.
They are large pads and the heaviest I have ever put on, the backs are pretty hefty too.. both pads are about 2x over the weight of the ones for the SC.
They are large pads and the heaviest I have ever put on, the backs are pretty hefty too.. both pads are about 2x over the weight of the ones for the SC.
Last edited by cmasten; 08-07-10 at 12:17 PM.
08-07-10, 10:42 AM
#6
I also like the ceramics, I just put some on on our 2007 Infiniti M35 and or 2000 Toyota Sienna. I will probably go with them on the LS460. I'm still researching for the best option. I'm looking for a pad that won't destroy the rotors and yet perform reasonably well. I had to replace the rotors on the M35 due to warping at 43K miles(at 32Kmiles the pads where replaced and rotors turned).
08-07-10, 04:59 PM
#7
I just replaced the front and the rear pads and it was pretty straight forward.
The rears have pads that just pull out, no caliper to remove. There are two pins that just slide out after you remove an inner spring. Just pay attention to how the springs are attached and its pretty simple to put back on, it has tension and the ends of the spring fit into holes in the pins to keep them from sliding out. The passenger side has a sensor, so make sure that you remove the small clip and then slide the sensor out to put into the new pad. From start to finish, never having done it I was able to replace the pads and do a general inspection in about 30 min. Next time I could do it in 15-20.
The fronts are very interesting, they also have pads that just slide in. There is a very similar spring that holds two pins in place, but also one more spring to keep the pads from chattering, just notice that one on the way out and replace it on both sides. Like the rear, the front passenger side has a sensor that needs to be taken off the old pads and put back on the new. Start to finish on the front about the same, 30 min total.
Each pad also has a small spring clip that connects to one side of the pad, this helps it stay snug inside the caliper, its very easy to put them on upside down and you will wonder why they are so hard to put back in.... just pay attention and make sure they go on like the ones your taking off and if they slide back in easily then you have them on right. Its subtle and I didnt notice it at first, but it was obvious once I reviewed the old pad and how the spring clip was on there.
I didnt need to pump the brake pedal or anything, as soon as I started the car, I could hear the brake system energize and put the right amount of tension back on the pads (nice!) also you need to make sure your Auto Brake system is off, and that you release the brakes if they are on to work on the brakes.
One thing I also noticed was just how well put together this car is, the brake system, the arms that control the wheels and steering, damping etc.. its all really solid and well thought out, I see why it rides so well and why the brakes are decent for a car of this size, they are very large, heavy and well designed. The Auto braking system is interesting too, as soon as I turned that back on, it seemed to go through some kind of test and then was good to go again.
I like the DuraLast Gold pads a lot, they are much higher quality than the OEM the dealer had put on there, and naturally I found where they didnt do small things right.. springs on wrong, or left off etc... just typical for the lack of detail that some of these folks seem to suffer from, doing this myself gives me piece of mind that its done right, and its ALL right not some of it.
No manual necessary and you could be a mid level type of DIY person, the brake pads are easy to replace on this vehicle and if your rotors are in good shape, it might just save you a bunch of cash too. I got mine at AutoZone online for about $125.00 for front and back pad kits to my door, including shipping. An hour of my time and I now have a much better ceramic pad with all the parts back on correctly and the lug nuts torqued to the right spec..
The rears have pads that just pull out, no caliper to remove. There are two pins that just slide out after you remove an inner spring. Just pay attention to how the springs are attached and its pretty simple to put back on, it has tension and the ends of the spring fit into holes in the pins to keep them from sliding out. The passenger side has a sensor, so make sure that you remove the small clip and then slide the sensor out to put into the new pad. From start to finish, never having done it I was able to replace the pads and do a general inspection in about 30 min. Next time I could do it in 15-20.
The fronts are very interesting, they also have pads that just slide in. There is a very similar spring that holds two pins in place, but also one more spring to keep the pads from chattering, just notice that one on the way out and replace it on both sides. Like the rear, the front passenger side has a sensor that needs to be taken off the old pads and put back on the new. Start to finish on the front about the same, 30 min total.
Each pad also has a small spring clip that connects to one side of the pad, this helps it stay snug inside the caliper, its very easy to put them on upside down and you will wonder why they are so hard to put back in.... just pay attention and make sure they go on like the ones your taking off and if they slide back in easily then you have them on right. Its subtle and I didnt notice it at first, but it was obvious once I reviewed the old pad and how the spring clip was on there.
I didnt need to pump the brake pedal or anything, as soon as I started the car, I could hear the brake system energize and put the right amount of tension back on the pads (nice!) also you need to make sure your Auto Brake system is off, and that you release the brakes if they are on to work on the brakes.
One thing I also noticed was just how well put together this car is, the brake system, the arms that control the wheels and steering, damping etc.. its all really solid and well thought out, I see why it rides so well and why the brakes are decent for a car of this size, they are very large, heavy and well designed. The Auto braking system is interesting too, as soon as I turned that back on, it seemed to go through some kind of test and then was good to go again.
I like the DuraLast Gold pads a lot, they are much higher quality than the OEM the dealer had put on there, and naturally I found where they didnt do small things right.. springs on wrong, or left off etc... just typical for the lack of detail that some of these folks seem to suffer from, doing this myself gives me piece of mind that its done right, and its ALL right not some of it.
No manual necessary and you could be a mid level type of DIY person, the brake pads are easy to replace on this vehicle and if your rotors are in good shape, it might just save you a bunch of cash too. I got mine at AutoZone online for about $125.00 for front and back pad kits to my door, including shipping. An hour of my time and I now have a much better ceramic pad with all the parts back on correctly and the lug nuts torqued to the right spec..
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08-07-10, 09:08 PM
#8
Nice write up cmasten. You didn't happen to also take pics did you?
This thread should be listed in the DIY sticky.
This thread should be listed in the DIY sticky.
08-07-10, 10:14 PM
#9
Thanks for the info CMASTEN!
Just a couple questions:
1) Did the pads come out easily once you removed the pins?
2) Did you have to push the pistons back to make room for the new thicker pads?
3) How many miles did you get on the original pads?
I agree with you on the quality and design of the components in this car - when I change my oil, I look things over and marvel at how solidly this car is built.
Once again, thanks for a great write up.
Just a couple questions:
1) Did the pads come out easily once you removed the pins?
2) Did you have to push the pistons back to make room for the new thicker pads?
3) How many miles did you get on the original pads?
I agree with you on the quality and design of the components in this car - when I change my oil, I look things over and marvel at how solidly this car is built.
Once again, thanks for a great write up.
08-07-10, 10:37 PM
#10
When I got ready to do this I was going to take pics and make a complete DIY of it, but I have never attempted to replace the pads on my LS, so didnt want to lead anyone astray if I got it all wrong and ended up putting it all back.. not a good excuse, because I know the value of the pictorials, but honestly its really straight forward, the fact that you dont take any calipers off, no wrench or sockets required other than to get the wheels off, speaks volumes to its simplicity.
The pads all the way around came out very easy. I have 65,000 miles and am the second owner. The backs are original and were about 50%. The fronts were new with new rotors from the CPO when I bought it about 8 months ago. It had 61k on it then so I have put on 4k of almost all city driving (lots of hills) since then. They looked about 90% on the front.
The only tool I really needed was a pair of needle nose pliers. They helped to get the springs into the pins etc when I first started, by the 4th wheel I did it all by hand, very easily. I also used the padded end of the pliers to gently push the pistons back, they moved very easily and I took my time. I didn't dump any brake fluid etc, and kept the system closed (the lid on the reservoir). I had it flushed when I bought it. I didn't need to move them much as the backs were only 50% and the fronts were 90%, I just dont care for Semi Metallic pads, and prefer the Ceramics. I also wanted to know more about how to do this, as I just put all new pads in my SC430 last weekend so was curious how much different the LS was. The design of the brakes in the LS are really well thought out, if you dont need any rotor work, there is nothing to take off (front or back) the pads all just slip in and out. The passenger side has the simple sensor and the DuraLast kits from Auto Zone had every part all the way down to the sensor replacement clip. The backs of these pads have several layers of material to make them more quiet. I didnt lube them up against the pistons as they are permanently part of the pad backing, but dont expect them to need it. They did include a tube in each kit, so if they act up Ill just pop them out and add the lube, but backing should not require it. The OEM pads had lube squeezing out of all the parts around the backing, the nice thing about the DuraLasts is that they are all bonded to the plate.
One more thing, I have replaced pads on lots of different cars over the years. The Lexus LS and SC have these really well engineered spring clips that add tension to the pad individually and when the set is installed. It keeps them from chattering and I noticed the little bit of chatter I had on the front was because the techs at my dealer didnt install them correctly. Once I noticed that and corrected it, they were completely silent on my test drive, like I said its easy to get the side springs upside down, so just take a few minutes to study the one your taking out. I realized they botched one side on the front, when I saw that the pair had them attached opposite. Its easy to see how that can be done and if you do, they wont be as snug in the caliper as they should be. All of the clips allow the pads to constantly self adjust which when you look at it as a whole is pretty impressive and yet very simply executed.
The pads all the way around came out very easy. I have 65,000 miles and am the second owner. The backs are original and were about 50%. The fronts were new with new rotors from the CPO when I bought it about 8 months ago. It had 61k on it then so I have put on 4k of almost all city driving (lots of hills) since then. They looked about 90% on the front.
The only tool I really needed was a pair of needle nose pliers. They helped to get the springs into the pins etc when I first started, by the 4th wheel I did it all by hand, very easily. I also used the padded end of the pliers to gently push the pistons back, they moved very easily and I took my time. I didn't dump any brake fluid etc, and kept the system closed (the lid on the reservoir). I had it flushed when I bought it. I didn't need to move them much as the backs were only 50% and the fronts were 90%, I just dont care for Semi Metallic pads, and prefer the Ceramics. I also wanted to know more about how to do this, as I just put all new pads in my SC430 last weekend so was curious how much different the LS was. The design of the brakes in the LS are really well thought out, if you dont need any rotor work, there is nothing to take off (front or back) the pads all just slip in and out. The passenger side has the simple sensor and the DuraLast kits from Auto Zone had every part all the way down to the sensor replacement clip. The backs of these pads have several layers of material to make them more quiet. I didnt lube them up against the pistons as they are permanently part of the pad backing, but dont expect them to need it. They did include a tube in each kit, so if they act up Ill just pop them out and add the lube, but backing should not require it. The OEM pads had lube squeezing out of all the parts around the backing, the nice thing about the DuraLasts is that they are all bonded to the plate.
One more thing, I have replaced pads on lots of different cars over the years. The Lexus LS and SC have these really well engineered spring clips that add tension to the pad individually and when the set is installed. It keeps them from chattering and I noticed the little bit of chatter I had on the front was because the techs at my dealer didnt install them correctly. Once I noticed that and corrected it, they were completely silent on my test drive, like I said its easy to get the side springs upside down, so just take a few minutes to study the one your taking out. I realized they botched one side on the front, when I saw that the pair had them attached opposite. Its easy to see how that can be done and if you do, they wont be as snug in the caliper as they should be. All of the clips allow the pads to constantly self adjust which when you look at it as a whole is pretty impressive and yet very simply executed.
Last edited by cmasten; 08-07-10 at 10:40 PM.
08-08-10, 08:33 AM
#11
Pole Position
Join Date: Aug 2009
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cmasten,
Nice write up. It makes me think I could take this on myself! Well, on second thought, maybe not.
Nice to read a posting that uses complete sentences along with correct grammar and spelling. This is becoming a lost art.
Nice write up. It makes me think I could take this on myself! Well, on second thought, maybe not.
Nice to read a posting that uses complete sentences along with correct grammar and spelling. This is becoming a lost art.
08-08-10, 03:05 PM
#12
Thanks for responding to my questions.
Attached are 3 pics of the driver rear brake.
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1096.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1097.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1101.JPG[/IMG]
Attached are 3 pics of the driver rear brake.
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1096.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1097.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\My Pictures\2010-08-08\DSCN1101.JPG[/IMG]
08-10-10, 04:40 AM
#14
Even though i'm about 90% sure I don't need rotors, only pads--no one, including the dealership will change the pads and not the rotors. Since the brakes are so important, I don't want to try changing them myself. Seems like this is going to cost upwards of $1,000 for the 4 pads, rotors and labor.
08-10-10, 11:34 AM
#15
Driver School Candidate
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Thanks for the information cmasten, this sounds very similar to the brake job I did on an FJ Cruiser. I haven't taken off the wheels to examine the LS brakes, but here is a picture of the FJ brakes that might illustrate the simplicity of the 2-pins and spring clip (no sensors on this one). From what it sounds like, shouldn't be all too different.
