Instructions For The "JMcRaney Wind Noise Fix"
06-11-11, 10:41 PM
#46
I had to take the time to type up a quick reply because I'm so impressed and thankful.
received the metal patches from jmcraney months ago.
just got around to doing the fix yesterday after I finally found the glue and found the time (15 minutes a side, and I was **** and took my time haha).
my car had ridiculous wind noise and from what I could gather it was coming from the exact spot this fix focused on.
my trim piece had the almost complete failed adhesion as described... what a terrible design.
I haven't reattached my trim pieces yet, but I drove all day today and went out to a party tonight... interstate driving involved in a few nasty storms with high wind.
the difference is night and day. my car is a vault now compared to what it was. it completely fixed my wind noise.
HUGE thanks to jmcraney for the insight and patches. you should be on the Lexus payroll.
I drank many Woodford bourbons in your honor tonight.
cheers my friend and many thanks.
I love this forum.
I'm off to **** my girlfriend and pass out.... over and out.
received the metal patches from jmcraney months ago.
just got around to doing the fix yesterday after I finally found the glue and found the time (15 minutes a side, and I was **** and took my time haha).
my car had ridiculous wind noise and from what I could gather it was coming from the exact spot this fix focused on.
my trim piece had the almost complete failed adhesion as described... what a terrible design.
I haven't reattached my trim pieces yet, but I drove all day today and went out to a party tonight... interstate driving involved in a few nasty storms with high wind.
the difference is night and day. my car is a vault now compared to what it was. it completely fixed my wind noise.
HUGE thanks to jmcraney for the insight and patches. you should be on the Lexus payroll.
I drank many Woodford bourbons in your honor tonight.
cheers my friend and many thanks.
I love this forum.
I'm off to **** my girlfriend and pass out.... over and out.
06-13-11, 07:00 AM
#47
Lexus Champion
to J McRaney:
I understand your frustration in being unable to get Lexus to even consider your proven solution. You are being very logical in your conclusions and expect common sense to prevail.
Lexus has replied that it is their "policy" not to accept suggestions from anyone. Therein is the reason they just tell you no. "Policy" is the highest level of company procedures and is controlled by the highest level in the organization. A violation of policy is reason for instant termination, no questions asked.
All the Lexus people you have reached are just following policy and can do nothing about it.
For instance, several years ago a golfer left Florida in his private executive aircraft. After getting to altitude and then being set on auto pilot for Cleveland (or another city in that general area, don't remember exact destination) the aircraft lost passenger air supply and everyone passed out and then died. Air Force pilots confirmed that the pilots of the unresponsive aircraft could be see sitting in their seats. The aircraft would eventually run out of fuel and crash. The question was what to do. Should the aircraft be shot down to prevent it from crashing into a densely populated city? Who would or could make that decision. There was no law that allows the government to kill civilians just because they want to (there was no actual proof that they were indeed dead). A decision had to be made before the aircraft was to crash into a city. They had some time and could track where it would crash. To solve this problem, the President invoked a "policy" that would allow the aircraft to be shot down if necessary. In the end that was not necessary as the aircraft crashed in an unpopulated area.
Hope this helps in understanding the difficult you have encountered in trying to help a large corporation such as Lexus. You have done an outstanding job and are to be complimented.
I understand your frustration in being unable to get Lexus to even consider your proven solution. You are being very logical in your conclusions and expect common sense to prevail.
Lexus has replied that it is their "policy" not to accept suggestions from anyone. Therein is the reason they just tell you no. "Policy" is the highest level of company procedures and is controlled by the highest level in the organization. A violation of policy is reason for instant termination, no questions asked.
All the Lexus people you have reached are just following policy and can do nothing about it.
For instance, several years ago a golfer left Florida in his private executive aircraft. After getting to altitude and then being set on auto pilot for Cleveland (or another city in that general area, don't remember exact destination) the aircraft lost passenger air supply and everyone passed out and then died. Air Force pilots confirmed that the pilots of the unresponsive aircraft could be see sitting in their seats. The aircraft would eventually run out of fuel and crash. The question was what to do. Should the aircraft be shot down to prevent it from crashing into a densely populated city? Who would or could make that decision. There was no law that allows the government to kill civilians just because they want to (there was no actual proof that they were indeed dead). A decision had to be made before the aircraft was to crash into a city. They had some time and could track where it would crash. To solve this problem, the President invoked a "policy" that would allow the aircraft to be shot down if necessary. In the end that was not necessary as the aircraft crashed in an unpopulated area.
Hope this helps in understanding the difficult you have encountered in trying to help a large corporation such as Lexus. You have done an outstanding job and are to be complimented.
Last edited by jayclapp; 06-13-11 at 07:05 AM.
06-13-11, 10:45 AM
#48
Moderator
to J McRaney:
For instance, several years ago a golfer left Florida in his private executive aircraft. After getting to altitude and then being set on auto pilot for Cleveland (or another city in that general area, don't remember exact destination) the aircraft lost passenger air supply and everyone passed out and then died. Air Force pilots confirmed that the pilots of the unresponsive aircraft could be see sitting in their seats. The aircraft would eventually run out of fuel and crash. The question was what to do. Should the aircraft be shot down to prevent it from crashing into a densely populated city? Who would or could make that decision. There was no law that allows the government to kill civilians just because they want to (there was no actual proof that they were indeed dead). A decision had to be made before the aircraft was to crash into a city. They had some time and could track where it would crash. To solve this problem, the President invoked a "policy" that would allow the aircraft to be shot down if necessary. In the end that was not necessary as the aircraft crashed in an unpopulated area.
For instance, several years ago a golfer left Florida in his private executive aircraft. After getting to altitude and then being set on auto pilot for Cleveland (or another city in that general area, don't remember exact destination) the aircraft lost passenger air supply and everyone passed out and then died. Air Force pilots confirmed that the pilots of the unresponsive aircraft could be see sitting in their seats. The aircraft would eventually run out of fuel and crash. The question was what to do. Should the aircraft be shot down to prevent it from crashing into a densely populated city? Who would or could make that decision. There was no law that allows the government to kill civilians just because they want to (there was no actual proof that they were indeed dead). A decision had to be made before the aircraft was to crash into a city. They had some time and could track where it would crash. To solve this problem, the President invoked a "policy" that would allow the aircraft to be shot down if necessary. In the end that was not necessary as the aircraft crashed in an unpopulated area.
http://emperors-clothes.com/9-11backups/abclearjet.htm
06-13-11, 07:49 PM
#49
Driver School Candidate
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Lexus wanted noise?
I just bought a 2007 LS 460 with 39k miles. Love the car but the wind noise is driving me nuts. My folks have owned a 400 and 430. My father was trained as an automotive Engine and he thinks Lexus is the best car ever made for money.
Try this theory on... Lexus cars are too quiet and Toyota wanted to introduce some road noise. This is theory is not mine but a prof of mine in grad business school. The marketing business case went something like .... Toyota was observing owners that were rolling down windows in tight traffic situations in some test cars. The cars were too quiet and drivers wanted more environmental sound.
Hense the poorly insulated areas are by design! And asking Lexus for help is going against Japan's test evaluation results and marketing research. Environmental sound is a sacred cow with Toyota.
BTW. The Lexus dealer just spent 4k on new seals and windows for my car under warrantee of course instead of spending 10 bucks with Jim's fix.
sacred cows? Maybe
Try this theory on... Lexus cars are too quiet and Toyota wanted to introduce some road noise. This is theory is not mine but a prof of mine in grad business school. The marketing business case went something like .... Toyota was observing owners that were rolling down windows in tight traffic situations in some test cars. The cars were too quiet and drivers wanted more environmental sound.
Hense the poorly insulated areas are by design! And asking Lexus for help is going against Japan's test evaluation results and marketing research. Environmental sound is a sacred cow with Toyota.
BTW. The Lexus dealer just spent 4k on new seals and windows for my car under warrantee of course instead of spending 10 bucks with Jim's fix.
sacred cows? Maybe
06-21-11, 05:34 PM
#50
I have this issue after having more than 3 places look at it
Lexus body shop, Geico auth body shop and Lexus dealer ship
Let me know if anyone is interested in a collective action to get Lexus to do something PROPER. Policy is not an excuse from a company that advertises the pursuit of perfection. To top it off, this fix is mundanely simple and Lexus should perhaps take a page out of the book called "The Lexus story" so they can read the part on the LS400 and how the rear brake lamp was deforming. Lexus (of then) turned what could've been a huge disaster into a solid reputation. The letters I see from Lexus so far and the attitude from Lexus just goes to show how far they have fallen.
At least the BMW and Benz guys have AMG and MSport.....
Edit: oh yeah PM me if interested so we can make a proper list. I will keep a track of username + car (for example: vraa - 08 LS600)
Lexus body shop, Geico auth body shop and Lexus dealer ship
Let me know if anyone is interested in a collective action to get Lexus to do something PROPER. Policy is not an excuse from a company that advertises the pursuit of perfection. To top it off, this fix is mundanely simple and Lexus should perhaps take a page out of the book called "The Lexus story" so they can read the part on the LS400 and how the rear brake lamp was deforming. Lexus (of then) turned what could've been a huge disaster into a solid reputation. The letters I see from Lexus so far and the attitude from Lexus just goes to show how far they have fallen.
At least the BMW and Benz guys have AMG and MSport.....
Edit: oh yeah PM me if interested so we can make a proper list. I will keep a track of username + car (for example: vraa - 08 LS600)
06-21-11, 07:12 PM
#51
Moderator
Thread Starter
Old Proverb
For Want of a Nail
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
07-03-11, 08:52 PM
#52
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I got my car fixed at Sewell of Fort worth twice for the windnoise, and now it has more wind noise than before ( I don't know what they did to the car). It's really drives me crazy.
11-18-11, 04:37 PM
#54
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Amazing that I found this thread. I own a 1998 LS400. O test drove a 2007 LS460 today. I noticed the wind noise and told the salesman that the noise would drive me crazy. He said that he did not notice excessive noise, but as we continued he did admit that noise was present. I told the saleman that my 1998 LS400 did not have as much wind noise after 13 years as the 4 year old LS460. It was so evident that I came home and started researching. Glad to know that I did not imagine the noise. Thank Jmcraney for sharing your experience and solution. Sounds like Lexus need to buy a better glue.
01-01-12, 07:26 PM
#55
Moderator
Thread Starter
I continue to watch for reports of "Wind Noise" in the newer models.
Here is something that was posted in a forum of one of the other Lexus discussion groups. It is current, only about 10 days ago and regards a 2012 model. This owner seems to have a good understanding of how quiet his car should be. And it is noteworthy to see that his dealer has apparently applied that ugly Crosswind Turbulence trim stuff - a fix that has been discredited long ago.
Quote from Lexus Owners Club:
Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:28 PM
I have a new 460 L that develops wind noise when reaching 66-67 mph. This is my 10th Lexus and third 460, so I am very accustomed to their legendary quietness. I have taken to dealer they said they added an extra windshied moulding ( which I doubt), no change. Hard to tell exactly the area from which it comes. Has anyone else exerienced similar problems.
End Quote
Here is a link to the quote: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...dpost&p=445407
Here is something that was posted in a forum of one of the other Lexus discussion groups. It is current, only about 10 days ago and regards a 2012 model. This owner seems to have a good understanding of how quiet his car should be. And it is noteworthy to see that his dealer has apparently applied that ugly Crosswind Turbulence trim stuff - a fix that has been discredited long ago.
Quote from Lexus Owners Club:
Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:28 PM
I have a new 460 L that develops wind noise when reaching 66-67 mph. This is my 10th Lexus and third 460, so I am very accustomed to their legendary quietness. I have taken to dealer they said they added an extra windshied moulding ( which I doubt), no change. Hard to tell exactly the area from which it comes. Has anyone else exerienced similar problems.
End Quote
Here is a link to the quote: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...dpost&p=445407
01-02-12, 11:42 AM
#56
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Hallo all
i want to share with u all my experience , i just bought LS 460 L 2011 before 2 months , and i noticed that there is a noise in the area originating from a direction of 10 o'clock from the window side .
what does this means that Lexus did not fix this problem until 2011. ??????
i want to share with u all my experience , i just bought LS 460 L 2011 before 2 months , and i noticed that there is a noise in the area originating from a direction of 10 o'clock from the window side .
what does this means that Lexus did not fix this problem until 2011. ??????
01-02-12, 12:42 PM
#57
Moderator
Thread Starter
Hallo all
i want to share with u all my experience , i just bought LS 460 L 2011 before 2 months , and i noticed that there is a noise in the area originating from a direction of 10 o'clock from the window side .
what does this means that Lexus did not fix this problem until 2011. ??????
i want to share with u all my experience , i just bought LS 460 L 2011 before 2 months , and i noticed that there is a noise in the area originating from a direction of 10 o'clock from the window side .
what does this means that Lexus did not fix this problem until 2011. ??????
Welcome to the discussion group. Sorry that you are experiencing a "noise" problem with your car. I sense from your post that you have not read the beginning of this thread.
Many of the 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 LS460s and LS600s have had a "Wind Noise" problem that is caused by a trim defect on the front doors. An easy, low cost Do It Yourself repair has been devised to correct this problem and implementing it usually transforms the problem cars into exceptionally quiet cars. It is a DIY repair because, so far, Lexus has regarded cars with this problem as "meeting specifications" and not in need of repair and they have not published a remedy.
The post just above yours cites a recent report of this problem, which is likely the same old trim defect, in a 2012 LS460L. Until the design is changed, some of the new cars will continue to come with this problem and other cars will continue to develop it as they age.
Here is a hyperlink that will take you directly to the DIY instructions at the beginning of this thread - Good Luck: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html
Last edited by jmcraney; 01-02-12 at 12:55 PM. Reason: hyperlink error correction
01-03-12, 03:15 PM
#58
Hi Jeff and Happy New Year!!
I guess some things never change. It is disgusting that Lexus has not been willing to listen to you about the fix. In case some of you don't know, Jeff was kind enough to send me the thin metal plates for the fix 2-3 years ago. The wind noise problem disappeared with his fix.
I heard from my Lexus dealer that the next generation LS will come out early in 2013. I sure hope that the next model does not have this incredible wind noise problem. I am seriously considering selling my 2008 at that time to purchase the next generation LS. I imagine the next generation will be loaded with high tech stuff that I love. But we'll see.
I guess some things never change. It is disgusting that Lexus has not been willing to listen to you about the fix. In case some of you don't know, Jeff was kind enough to send me the thin metal plates for the fix 2-3 years ago. The wind noise problem disappeared with his fix.
I heard from my Lexus dealer that the next generation LS will come out early in 2013. I sure hope that the next model does not have this incredible wind noise problem. I am seriously considering selling my 2008 at that time to purchase the next generation LS. I imagine the next generation will be loaded with high tech stuff that I love. But we'll see.
01-04-12, 07:41 AM
#59
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merssal,
Welcome to the discussion group. Sorry that you are experiencing a "noise" problem with your car. I sense from your post that you have not read the beginning of this thread.
Many of the 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 LS460s and LS600s have had a "Wind Noise" problem that is caused by a trim defect on the front doors. An easy, low cost Do It Yourself repair has been devised to correct this problem and implementing it usually transforms the problem cars into exceptionally quiet cars. It is a DIY repair because, so far, Lexus has regarded cars with this problem as "meeting specifications" and not in need of repair and they have not published a remedy.
The post just above yours cites a recent report of this problem, which is likely the same old trim defect, in a 2012 LS460L. Until the design is changed, some of the new cars will continue to come with this problem and other cars will continue to develop it as they age.
Here is a hyperlink that will take you directly to the DIY instructions at the beginning of this thread - Good Luck: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html
Welcome to the discussion group. Sorry that you are experiencing a "noise" problem with your car. I sense from your post that you have not read the beginning of this thread.
Many of the 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 LS460s and LS600s have had a "Wind Noise" problem that is caused by a trim defect on the front doors. An easy, low cost Do It Yourself repair has been devised to correct this problem and implementing it usually transforms the problem cars into exceptionally quiet cars. It is a DIY repair because, so far, Lexus has regarded cars with this problem as "meeting specifications" and not in need of repair and they have not published a remedy.
The post just above yours cites a recent report of this problem, which is likely the same old trim defect, in a 2012 LS460L. Until the design is changed, some of the new cars will continue to come with this problem and other cars will continue to develop it as they age.
Here is a hyperlink that will take you directly to the DIY instructions at the beginning of this thread - Good Luck: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html
so i guess that most Toyota cars fitted with the triangle trim do have this noise ????
today, after i drove the fortuner ,i tried the lexus it was so quite than the fortuner !!!!
01-09-12, 10:46 PM
#60
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I've had my LS600hL for over 4.5 years now and have been reading the forums about the "wind noise" issues and have never really thought my car had the problem. Yes, there has always been some wind noise at highway speeds but I just chalked it up as "normal" since the car is exceptionally quiet. On a whim when I was at the hardware store this weekend I happened to be buying some glue when I saw the GE silicon glue that I remembered was recommended for correcting the wind noise problem... so I figured I'd buy some (and I also got a small piece of metal too).
I figured I'd try just the drivers door first to see if I actually heard any difference.... WOW, I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. I could actually hear a HUGE difference between the driver's window and the passenger window on the freeway. I guess I really did have a problem. Needless to say I have started the passenger window fix tonight.
I'm sure there are many people like myself that have read the forums for years and said "what wind noise problem?" I'd tell everyone that thinks they don't have the problem to spend $5 and a few minutes of your time and do what I did and try one window and see the difference.
So once again Jeff, thanks for figuring out the problem (even if I didn't think I had a problem) and thanks for posting detailed instructions on how to fix it.
I figured I'd try just the drivers door first to see if I actually heard any difference.... WOW, I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. I could actually hear a HUGE difference between the driver's window and the passenger window on the freeway. I guess I really did have a problem. Needless to say I have started the passenger window fix tonight.
I'm sure there are many people like myself that have read the forums for years and said "what wind noise problem?" I'd tell everyone that thinks they don't have the problem to spend $5 and a few minutes of your time and do what I did and try one window and see the difference.
So once again Jeff, thanks for figuring out the problem (even if I didn't think I had a problem) and thanks for posting detailed instructions on how to fix it.
