LS460 vs S550 vs BMW 7 series
03-28-10, 06:00 PM
#31
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Did you test the 2007 or 2010 models? If it is a used 2007, it may have more wind noise, but that can be rectified.
Welcome ellingham and thanks for sharing your thoughts!!! Very illuminating comparison of all 3 models, and interesting you have had ownership experiences with all 3.
Welcome ellingham and thanks for sharing your thoughts!!! Very illuminating comparison of all 3 models, and interesting you have had ownership experiences with all 3.
I am very interested in this wind noise issue you spoke of. I have noticed it, but didn't take much notice. What can be done to reduce it ?
03-29-10, 06:03 AM
#32
When I left my S550 in with Mercedes service to fit the harness for the iPod, they handed it back to me with the ashtray cover in the center console broken. It would not stay open.
That in itself is not a big issue, but it does point out something about Mercedes I did not like. Mercedes service does not in anyway give a rats *** about you the Mercedes owner. While I found BMW service to be wholly incompetent and desperately incapable of doing even the simplest of things correctly, they did try. Mercedes didn't even try. They simply just did not care.
My S550 broke down more than I would have liked, and when it did, it was not a good experience trying to get it fixed. Not the kind of experience I would have expected as an owner of their flagship product.
The S550 itself left very little in the way of an impression. It was not as engaging to drive as the 750Li, and it was not as luxurious on the inside as the LS 460. It was quiet, it was ...
I give up. I don't really know what else to say about it.
That in itself is not a big issue, but it does point out something about Mercedes I did not like. Mercedes service does not in anyway give a rats *** about you the Mercedes owner. While I found BMW service to be wholly incompetent and desperately incapable of doing even the simplest of things correctly, they did try. Mercedes didn't even try. They simply just did not care.
My S550 broke down more than I would have liked, and when it did, it was not a good experience trying to get it fixed. Not the kind of experience I would have expected as an owner of their flagship product.
The S550 itself left very little in the way of an impression. It was not as engaging to drive as the 750Li, and it was not as luxurious on the inside as the LS 460. It was quiet, it was ...
I give up. I don't really know what else to say about it.
LOL I sold my first BMW (635CSi) after reading one of the most racist speeches I'd ever seen in modern print. It really irritated me and was a big factor in me selling the BMW. The article was an interview of the head of BMW Germany, and IIRC, was in The Roundel. He was bashing Japanese people and culture, not just the vehicles (I bought a 300XZTT
). Similar is the case now for why I would walk to work before I'd drive a Government Motors vehicle.
03-29-10, 10:34 AM
#33
Lexus Champion
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/vehi...C&vc=E&yr=2010
I bought it in 09 so I made a mistake please shoot me in the head for my ignorance so you feel gratification.
I bought it in 09 so I made a mistake please shoot me in the head for my ignorance so you feel gratification.
If you had a 2009 E Class, one would expect reliability to be fine since it's based on the older W211 platform.
If you had a E Coupe, it would be a 2010 and based on a newer platform. Since the E Coupe is a brand new model, it's not shocking that there would be first year bugs.
Back on point, I was helping a friend car shop this weekend and we stopped by my local Lexus dealer. One thing I love about the LS460 is that the transmission and engine seem to work so effortlessly. Such a relaxing, comfortable car to drive.
03-30-10, 01:33 PM
#34
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I own an LS460, which I find to be the FAR superior car for everyday, around-town driving and for ease of use of the gadgets, but I recently drove my Dad's 2006 BMW 750IL for 20 hours from Eugene, OR to Scottsdale, AZ and a glaring difference showed: the BMW seats are much better for long distance driving!!!! Good luck actually finding all of the adjustments, but there are probably twice as many things on the seats you can mess with than there are on my LS460, and the key feature is the butt massager - a soft, slow shiatsu-type butt-cheek massager that is incredibly useful.
I also kinda liked the feel of the BMW brakes which were responsive and gentle, where my LS brakes are stronger, but a little grabby (I am going to change to harder brake pads on my next service to see if that helps).
Anyways everything else about the BMW user interface was completely idiotic - took me 30 seconds to change the radio station, and the cruise controls are placed under the turn signal all on the left side of the steering column - so while driving at night you have the left index and middle fingers working the brights, and your ring and pinky fingers adjusting the speed. BMW does have a cool LCD display behind the speedo that shows where your speed is set, and you can tweak speeds by 1 or 5 mph increments, which is also nice....
But if I were to do it again, I would buy another LS460 and immediately try my best to somehow acquire BMW seats and swap them out. Just my recently acquired $0.02.......
I also kinda liked the feel of the BMW brakes which were responsive and gentle, where my LS brakes are stronger, but a little grabby (I am going to change to harder brake pads on my next service to see if that helps).
Anyways everything else about the BMW user interface was completely idiotic - took me 30 seconds to change the radio station, and the cruise controls are placed under the turn signal all on the left side of the steering column - so while driving at night you have the left index and middle fingers working the brights, and your ring and pinky fingers adjusting the speed. BMW does have a cool LCD display behind the speedo that shows where your speed is set, and you can tweak speeds by 1 or 5 mph increments, which is also nice....
But if I were to do it again, I would buy another LS460 and immediately try my best to somehow acquire BMW seats and swap them out. Just my recently acquired $0.02.......
03-31-10, 05:53 PM
#35
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Here is a blog entry comparing 4 top luxury sedans (I know - it is a BMW blog and is likely biased - but points out some differences):
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/12/05/bm...edes-s-class-a
I am on week 5 of a new 2010 BMW 750i. I switched to BMW after years of Lexus. Turned in a 2007 LS460 - which was the first LS I did not like, mostly due to the wind noise design flaw, Toyota's handling of the issue and other minor quality control issues.
Based on some of the comments here, MB and BMW should get out of the business. This has not been my experience in these short 5 weeks.
The 750i drives and handles beautifully. Like ZEEBRA mentioned, the seats with the massager are amazingly comfortable and the breaks seem much smoother than on my LS460.
The interior is luxurious, and on the 2010 the iDrive works just fine. The NAV is good, the iPod and iPhone integration is actually excellent. The voice recognition works much better than on my 07 LS - it is usable.
I know 5 weeks mean little to judge reliability - but I have not had any issues (which I did on the first month of my LS - wind noise, dead battery that required repair).
I look forward to driving the 750i every time - it is powerful and just handles great. So far I do not regret going to the BMW 7 from the LS460 - and I must admit it did worry me. Clearly the LS460 is a marvelous car, but so is the BMW 7 (and the MB 550s that I test drove). At this time I just happen to like and enjoy the 7 a lot more.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/12/05/bm...edes-s-class-a
I am on week 5 of a new 2010 BMW 750i. I switched to BMW after years of Lexus. Turned in a 2007 LS460 - which was the first LS I did not like, mostly due to the wind noise design flaw, Toyota's handling of the issue and other minor quality control issues.
Based on some of the comments here, MB and BMW should get out of the business. This has not been my experience in these short 5 weeks.
The 750i drives and handles beautifully. Like ZEEBRA mentioned, the seats with the massager are amazingly comfortable and the breaks seem much smoother than on my LS460.
The interior is luxurious, and on the 2010 the iDrive works just fine. The NAV is good, the iPod and iPhone integration is actually excellent. The voice recognition works much better than on my 07 LS - it is usable.
I know 5 weeks mean little to judge reliability - but I have not had any issues (which I did on the first month of my LS - wind noise, dead battery that required repair).
I look forward to driving the 750i every time - it is powerful and just handles great. So far I do not regret going to the BMW 7 from the LS460 - and I must admit it did worry me. Clearly the LS460 is a marvelous car, but so is the BMW 7 (and the MB 550s that I test drove). At this time I just happen to like and enjoy the 7 a lot more.
03-31-10, 07:06 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
Wow, that BLOG was special. I myself have stated some of the same things as they did on the BLOG for BMW. Before Im attacked let me say I am a Lexus fan guys/gals but, honesty is how I judge. Lexus does need to improve on getting away from Toyota fixtures etc., with the Lexus brand top(LS) to bottom(IS)! They were brutal but, honest on there evaluation of our favorite car. I dont care for the new Lexus looks, I want it because Lexus is the MOST RELIABLE CAR onthe LUXURY LEVEL OUT. They dont talk about that though I see. Were they were wrong in my opinion is not talking about reliability. All there topics were basic and would always put Lexus in last place.
They didnt mention price or reliability! Lexus does need to improve to gain the European car LOVERS respect though. The exterior of the LS isn't standout. The interior is ok and the seats arent as comfy as the previous model(2001-2006)! That said, I d go with the S-Class or Lexus before the BMW. The Audi and BMW and Benz also are know for issues later in ownership. I owned 2 Benzes and they were in the shop a total14 times in a year period of ownership of both combined!!!
Were they harsh on LEXUS? YES! Was some deserved?YES! Was the score they gave TO LOW? YES! Do those who like European cars better respect LExus? NO! Will they ever respect LEXUS NO! Do I truly care? NO! Should we? NO! What we should do is be honest Lexus has improvements they need to make and using Toyota interior and exterior parts won't suffice. Lexus must do complete designs for the Lexus lines that dont resemble Toyotas. Thats the only way the respect will come to LEXUS as a Luxury car company beyond those like me who truly like LEXUS because I chose reliability and price over flash!!! L.G.N.M
They didnt mention price or reliability! Lexus does need to improve to gain the European car LOVERS respect though. The exterior of the LS isn't standout. The interior is ok and the seats arent as comfy as the previous model(2001-2006)! That said, I d go with the S-Class or Lexus before the BMW. The Audi and BMW and Benz also are know for issues later in ownership. I owned 2 Benzes and they were in the shop a total14 times in a year period of ownership of both combined!!!
Were they harsh on LEXUS? YES! Was some deserved?YES! Was the score they gave TO LOW? YES! Do those who like European cars better respect LExus? NO! Will they ever respect LEXUS NO! Do I truly care? NO! Should we? NO! What we should do is be honest Lexus has improvements they need to make and using Toyota interior and exterior parts won't suffice. Lexus must do complete designs for the Lexus lines that dont resemble Toyotas. Thats the only way the respect will come to LEXUS as a Luxury car company beyond those like me who truly like LEXUS because I chose reliability and price over flash!!! L.G.N.M
04-01-10, 06:48 AM
#37
LOL Yes, and much of it "special" in a gee-whiz, SNL kind of way. "Hey, let's compare an LS460 against cars costing up to 150% its price! And let's set up the points system where our subjective judgement can award 4x the number of points to the winner even if there are minor differences between the contestants! OH! OH!! OH!!! And let's completely ignore the fact that all of the contestants except the LS460 are on the lists of the world's least reliable, most problem-laden cars, and have been for YEARS!" 
I think the most important statement in that blogomercial was "...it may not be the best, most accurate or appropriate comparison...."
I think the most important statement in that blogomercial was "...it may not be the best, most accurate or appropriate comparison...."
04-01-10, 10:53 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
I agree I6turbo, they certainly didn't care for the LS460/600 before the gave there scores. What Im hoping Lexus starts to do though just for US LEXUS supporters is improve on some of what they did put down. All of what they said wasn't untrue. Certainly I've seen Toyotas such as the Avalon and Camry and also some of the trucks they sell have similarities to the LEXUS models. Now , Im not agreeing with the scores.
My thing is LEXUS has to turn the corner with those who dislike the car for the reasons given. I owned a Benz and Im sure you and others here have owned other Luxury cars as well. I can admit that my S-Class was far superior to my Lexus in styling and handling and overall looks. Yes, the European makes are FAR LESS reliable than our dependable Lexus'! That said, when Lexus improves styling more and adds unique interior features that totally aren't kin to Toyotas such as Avalon and Camry then the respect will come.
I like Lexus but, honestly they must improve some of the things that the bloggers complained about. One person said Lexus didnt even belong in the discussion. Thats not a consumer issue meaning us on Club Lexus and other Lexus owners. Thats a Lexus issue they have neglected for years. Im with you I6turbo, they didnt give the LS a chance but, like all things in LIFE we must prove ourselves. People with major cash(my friends) still aren't buying that Lexus is in the same Luxury level as BMW,Benz,Audi,Jag etc.!
These are friends of mine, not enemies! They say some of the same things on this BMW blog. See, improvement is about honesty, fixing what is weak. Heeding what those who dont like the flavor of what you sell and improving on it makes greatness. Imagine if Lexus ever did get Benz owners to pick Lexus before they got tires of there BMW's,Benzes,Audi's etc., have issues. Most European make owners went to Lexus after issues, not all but, a good amount of people came to Lexus after frustration only with the European makes.
I want Lexus to be #1 not just in reliability but, Looks and styling and performance and interior features etc.! Most I hear from non-Lexus buyers is they think its a Toyota with Lexus put on it to make it Luxury. WHY? They use Toyota items to make alot of the cars interior and exterior features. Why is it we can go to Toyota for service? Thats my point. I love what Lexus stands for. Reliability, great price etc.! That said, Im not impressed with the 2007-2010 LS nor GS's interior nor exterior styling(get it confused with the ES/Toyotas) at all. I know there reliable as heck. Thats why I still drive Lexus! Not the exterior nor the interior. My S-Class and Benz truck(ML500) were much better looks and performance wise. Yes, reliabilty is an issue for the Euro makes but, until Lexus improves there weaknesses they will never attain the respect they deserve for reliable cars because they cant get enough traditional Euro make buyers in the seats of a Lexus to experience what Lexus offers. Most of what they think is perception, not truth.
Until I got a Lexus due to a friends younger brother owning a GS, I had no idea that Lexus was a great car. That got me in the dealership. I was a Benz,BMW,Jag traditional car fan as far as Luxury is concerned as well. The looks of the Lexus never truly impressed me and still dont. I love the reliability and recently that hasnt been as rock solid though better than the Euro makes, hahaha! Mostly I agree with you I6turbo!!! They were cruel to Lexus on that BMW Blog but, what do we expect, we do the same to other makes on ClubLexus! HAHAHAHA! L.G.N.M
My thing is LEXUS has to turn the corner with those who dislike the car for the reasons given. I owned a Benz and Im sure you and others here have owned other Luxury cars as well. I can admit that my S-Class was far superior to my Lexus in styling and handling and overall looks. Yes, the European makes are FAR LESS reliable than our dependable Lexus'! That said, when Lexus improves styling more and adds unique interior features that totally aren't kin to Toyotas such as Avalon and Camry then the respect will come.
I like Lexus but, honestly they must improve some of the things that the bloggers complained about. One person said Lexus didnt even belong in the discussion. Thats not a consumer issue meaning us on Club Lexus and other Lexus owners. Thats a Lexus issue they have neglected for years. Im with you I6turbo, they didnt give the LS a chance but, like all things in LIFE we must prove ourselves. People with major cash(my friends) still aren't buying that Lexus is in the same Luxury level as BMW,Benz,Audi,Jag etc.!
These are friends of mine, not enemies! They say some of the same things on this BMW blog. See, improvement is about honesty, fixing what is weak. Heeding what those who dont like the flavor of what you sell and improving on it makes greatness. Imagine if Lexus ever did get Benz owners to pick Lexus before they got tires of there BMW's,Benzes,Audi's etc., have issues. Most European make owners went to Lexus after issues, not all but, a good amount of people came to Lexus after frustration only with the European makes.
I want Lexus to be #1 not just in reliability but, Looks and styling and performance and interior features etc.! Most I hear from non-Lexus buyers is they think its a Toyota with Lexus put on it to make it Luxury. WHY? They use Toyota items to make alot of the cars interior and exterior features. Why is it we can go to Toyota for service? Thats my point. I love what Lexus stands for. Reliability, great price etc.! That said, Im not impressed with the 2007-2010 LS nor GS's interior nor exterior styling(get it confused with the ES/Toyotas) at all. I know there reliable as heck. Thats why I still drive Lexus! Not the exterior nor the interior. My S-Class and Benz truck(ML500) were much better looks and performance wise. Yes, reliabilty is an issue for the Euro makes but, until Lexus improves there weaknesses they will never attain the respect they deserve for reliable cars because they cant get enough traditional Euro make buyers in the seats of a Lexus to experience what Lexus offers. Most of what they think is perception, not truth.
Until I got a Lexus due to a friends younger brother owning a GS, I had no idea that Lexus was a great car. That got me in the dealership. I was a Benz,BMW,Jag traditional car fan as far as Luxury is concerned as well. The looks of the Lexus never truly impressed me and still dont. I love the reliability and recently that hasnt been as rock solid though better than the Euro makes, hahaha! Mostly I agree with you I6turbo!!! They were cruel to Lexus on that BMW Blog but, what do we expect, we do the same to other makes on ClubLexus! HAHAHAHA! L.G.N.M
04-01-10, 12:52 PM
#39
^^^ You kind of write as if the LS is a failure, isn't respected, and isn't outselling the cars in the blogomercial, and as if the LS isn't dramatically differentiated in quality and materials from Avalons and Camrys. The Lexus LS has been and remains hugely successful, and has proven itself long ago. An LS is in another league even from a GS, not to mention lesser Lexus- and Toyota-badged vehicles. A quarter mile test drive will reveal that without question IME, and it only gets more obvious the further you go. I do wish Lexus had kept the LS more unique and differentiated-looking from the rest of the line -- the LS430 was far superior in that regard, IMO. I do NOT like the way that all of the higher end car companies have gone to the S, M, L, XL version of the same car, looks wise. None of them have differentiation.
04-01-10, 03:08 PM
#40
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After moving to the 7 series from the LS - I agree - they are in a different price class, however when you lease, depending on market conditions, the monthly payments may be close.
I had Jaguars and Lexus since 1984 - In 1992 I moved to Lexus for reliability. My LS460 '07 was very reliable, yet had to go back to the dealer far more than any previous Lexus I owned. Maybe 1st year model quirks.
Speaking to friends that had moved to BMW, Audi and MB - their reliability on late models '09 and '10 was quite good. Reliability edge for Lexus was no longer enough to override the handling, design and comfort edge from the German cars (for me).
Within my circle of friends - at least 5 have moved from Lexus to German Cars - all are very pleased. The Wind noise (an me) had a lot to do with that. I test drove the MB, BMW and Audi and really liked the BMW 7 plus could not wait to get out of the LS.
Let's see what Lexus comes up in 2012 on the LS. I feel the 460 was in many ways a backwards move from the 430 - but needless to say they do build exceptional and very reliable machines.
I had Jaguars and Lexus since 1984 - In 1992 I moved to Lexus for reliability. My LS460 '07 was very reliable, yet had to go back to the dealer far more than any previous Lexus I owned. Maybe 1st year model quirks.
Speaking to friends that had moved to BMW, Audi and MB - their reliability on late models '09 and '10 was quite good. Reliability edge for Lexus was no longer enough to override the handling, design and comfort edge from the German cars (for me).
Within my circle of friends - at least 5 have moved from Lexus to German Cars - all are very pleased. The Wind noise (an me) had a lot to do with that. I test drove the MB, BMW and Audi and really liked the BMW 7 plus could not wait to get out of the LS.
Let's see what Lexus comes up in 2012 on the LS. I feel the 460 was in many ways a backwards move from the 430 - but needless to say they do build exceptional and very reliable machines.
Last edited by Maurice; 04-01-10 at 04:10 PM. Reason: typo
04-01-10, 04:06 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
WOW, great info. I hear some of the same things but, this isnt the site to tell Lexus owners about there cars. This is a pro Lexus site here. That said, I agree with your points Maurice, just dont expect much LOVE from my fellow members. Congrats on the 7 Series, great car!!!! L.G.N.M
04-01-10, 04:25 PM
#42
I have a long suffering and wonderfully understanding wife. She once said that I had a bucket list in life, and that it was mostly full of cars.
I am very interested in this wind noise issue you spoke of. I have noticed it, but didn't take much notice. What can be done to reduce it ?
I am very interested in this wind noise issue you spoke of. I have noticed it, but didn't take much notice. What can be done to reduce it ?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...iscussion.html
I like all 3 cars a lot, although I tend to prefer the LS and S more.
04-05-10, 09:37 AM
#43
I agree -- My wife and I have test-driven the LS460 two times thinking of switching from the LS430 to the 460. My wife was fairly neutral (liked some things better about the 460 and some better about the 430), but both times I decided that I actually prefer the 430 all things considered, particularly the way it feels more nimble with its lighter weight and a well-chosen wheel/tire package. And I think the 430 seats are more comfortable for me. I can see how many people would gravitate to the 460, but for what I like in a luxury sedan, I really admire a lot about the 430. I wish the 430 had the 460's sound system though.
04-05-10, 09:49 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Maurices statement was HUGE! something you didn't see as much was Lexus folks leaving Lexus to go back to German/Euro makes!!! Use to be the other way around. He had 5 friends leave Lexus to go back to Euro makes!!! WOW!!! Never would have thought that! I myself had considered going back to Benz, not BMW or Audi or even Jag. Great cars but, only Benz was considered strongly.
I will stay in my LS430. Yes, its old now but, just 105,600 miles and also, the economy is taking its toll on me mentally.Im learning to love what I have instead of wanting more things I dont need and I own my car payed in full. It still has the good smell in the AC vent, believe it or not and the interior and exterior are good for its age. No rust at all. Still drives smooth as when I got it. I guess my take on the LS460 is not enough good reviews from faithful Lexus owners themselves. Not outsiders who dont like Lexus but, LS430 owners who werent happy. Yes, some were or most I guess were happy with the upgrade to 2007-2010 LS460.
The wind noise not getting fixed and other comments like seat comfort and driving and handling have me thinking Lexus has become a bit careless with items and issues they never let linger and are making choices that turned away those who were owners since 1992 like Maurice. His statement was HUGE in many ways. WOW! I will keep my LS430 and wait for the new body change(3-4 more years)!!! This is a GREAT THREAD!!! L.G.N.M
I will stay in my LS430. Yes, its old now but, just 105,600 miles and also, the economy is taking its toll on me mentally.Im learning to love what I have instead of wanting more things I dont need and I own my car payed in full. It still has the good smell in the AC vent, believe it or not and the interior and exterior are good for its age. No rust at all. Still drives smooth as when I got it. I guess my take on the LS460 is not enough good reviews from faithful Lexus owners themselves. Not outsiders who dont like Lexus but, LS430 owners who werent happy. Yes, some were or most I guess were happy with the upgrade to 2007-2010 LS460.
The wind noise not getting fixed and other comments like seat comfort and driving and handling have me thinking Lexus has become a bit careless with items and issues they never let linger and are making choices that turned away those who were owners since 1992 like Maurice. His statement was HUGE in many ways. WOW! I will keep my LS430 and wait for the new body change(3-4 more years)!!! This is a GREAT THREAD!!! L.G.N.M
Last edited by usermel; 04-05-10 at 09:53 AM.