My experience comparing an S-Class with LS600h
07-08-08, 10:34 AM
#31
Interesting where is the 49 hp motor gets it's electrical supply from?
I am assuming that it use special battery for supply, but I also have to assume that this additional power is not available all the time because it does not make sense that mechanical power is converted to electrical to be converted back to mechanical? Am I missing something?
I am assuming that it use special battery for supply, but I also have to assume that this additional power is not available all the time because it does not make sense that mechanical power is converted to electrical to be converted back to mechanical? Am I missing something?
The special batteries used to power the electric motor are charged in several ways. (1) From the engine itself. (2) Item (2) above, kinetic energy.
On heavy, sudden acceleration (such as when starting from being stopped), the electric motor provides instant torque, as opposed to a gasoline engine, which takes time to "torque up".
HBH
07-08-08, 12:12 PM
#32
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The battery powered electric motor is used for several purposes. (1) It provides extra power, instantly, on demand. (2) During coasting or braking, it's used to charge the battery from the kinetic energy. (3) I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the motor is also used to start the engine, eliminating the need for a separate starter.
The special batteries used to power the electric motor are charged in several ways. (1) From the engine itself. (2) Item (2) above, kinetic energy.
On heavy, sudden acceleration (such as when starting from being stopped), the electric motor provides instant torque, as opposed to a gasoline engine, which takes time to "torque up".
The special batteries used to power the electric motor are charged in several ways. (1) From the engine itself. (2) Item (2) above, kinetic energy.
On heavy, sudden acceleration (such as when starting from being stopped), the electric motor provides instant torque, as opposed to a gasoline engine, which takes time to "torque up".
Thanks
07-15-08, 07:40 AM
#33
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Interesting thoughts and observations. 
I do think comparing an "entry-level" S320 CDI to the top-of-the-line LS600h will give you anyone a poorer impression of the S320 CDI. You need to compare the S600 with the LS600h.
I've never driven an LS or the current S-Class but I've ridden in the current S320 CDI (colleague from work with a higher pay grade than me!
). I couldn't find any faults to be honest. The ride was smooth and quiet and the engine is only really audible when the car is idling in traffic - and it is a very quiet, hardly audible sound to begin with.
Interior wise I would actually give the nod to the S-Class. The exterior styling of the current LS is beautiful, classy, elegant and conservative - the perfect luxury sedan for people who like to make a quiet entrance. However, the interior of the current LS has always bothered me. Material-wise it's fine but perhaps there's too much plastic visible, something that isn't the case with the S-Class or A8 for example. The cockpit design of the LS has also always bothered me. It completely lacks the simplistic elegance of its competitors and appears to be designed with little thought about elegant appearance. Compared to the S-Class and A8 it looks very busy and lacks the aforementioned simplicity, both visual and ergonomic.
At the end of the day both are great cars and I really don't see how anyone could complain about a base S320 CDI or an LS600h.
I do think comparing an "entry-level" S320 CDI to the top-of-the-line LS600h will give you anyone a poorer impression of the S320 CDI. You need to compare the S600 with the LS600h.
I've never driven an LS or the current S-Class but I've ridden in the current S320 CDI (colleague from work with a higher pay grade than me!
). I couldn't find any faults to be honest. The ride was smooth and quiet and the engine is only really audible when the car is idling in traffic - and it is a very quiet, hardly audible sound to begin with.Interior wise I would actually give the nod to the S-Class. The exterior styling of the current LS is beautiful, classy, elegant and conservative - the perfect luxury sedan for people who like to make a quiet entrance. However, the interior of the current LS has always bothered me. Material-wise it's fine but perhaps there's too much plastic visible, something that isn't the case with the S-Class or A8 for example. The cockpit design of the LS has also always bothered me. It completely lacks the simplistic elegance of its competitors and appears to be designed with little thought about elegant appearance. Compared to the S-Class and A8 it looks very busy and lacks the aforementioned simplicity, both visual and ergonomic.
At the end of the day both are great cars and I really don't see how anyone could complain about a base S320 CDI or an LS600h.
07-15-08, 12:34 PM
#34
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But there's no doubt the Comand system is a very elegant way for Mercedes to hide all the buttons, and in my case it was easy to use and intuitive.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
07-18-08, 04:43 AM
#35
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Interesting thought. I like the 'cockpit' appearance of the LS for exactly the opposite reason, with the more visible controls making the drive more interesting.
But there's no doubt the Comand system is a very elegant way for Mercedes to hide all the buttons, and in my case it was easy to use and intuitive.
But there's no doubt the Comand system is a very elegant way for Mercedes to hide all the buttons, and in my case it was easy to use and intuitive.
Design is subjective.
I generally appreciate and show enthusiasm for all kinds of cars and I love Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, BMW and others. But I'll be honest, I dislike the interior of the LS460 from both a design point of view and ergonomics. In fact, come to think of it, as great as every LS generation has been, the interiors have always lacked the simplistic elegance which the European competition has fielded.
Again, this is a subjective topic and I personally feel the S class interior looks better.
07-18-08, 09:29 AM
#36
I agree that the COMAND/i-Drive **** allows for a much more uncluttered and elegant appearance.
However
For me, it's not that the Comand/i-Drive is difficult to learn. After a while you get somewhat used to the menu system.
The problem is that it's cumbersome in use. The delay after pushing or twisting the **** ranges from immediate (rarely) to 10 seconds (or MORE!).
While you're waiting for the response so you can press the next action click or twist, your attention is diverted from the road. You look back and forth, at the road, back at the screen, back at the road, etc.
To my mind, this makes it dangerous to use while driving.
The other problem is one of "Mouse like ****" vs "touch screen".
There are several functions of the Lexus touch-screen NAV system that you simply can't do with a ****.
For example, touching another point on the map and seeing how far away it is.
Touching a street when zoomed out to see it's name.
Also, touching a waypoint (hotel, restaurant, or your own memorized point) to see information about that point.
HBH
07-18-08, 04:45 PM
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...There are several functions of the Lexus touch-screen NAV system that you simply can't do with a ****.
For example, touching another point on the map and seeing how far away it is.
Touching a street when zoomed out to see it's name.
Also, touching a waypoint (hotel, restaurant, or your own memorized point) to see information about that point...
For example, touching another point on the map and seeing how far away it is.
Touching a street when zoomed out to see it's name.
Also, touching a waypoint (hotel, restaurant, or your own memorized point) to see information about that point...
I believe the problem with BMW's iDrive was not the functionality, but the learning time needed to operate it. Certainly the Comand system is easy to use, but like you I haven't tried the iDrive to make a comparison.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
07-27-08, 01:43 AM
#40
Driver School Candidate
I'm not sure if this is of any comparison, but i have driven an S600, and a full spec Lexus LS460. I dont own either, so i cant be accused of being biased!
Both are great cars, and like many of you guys have commented, design is really subjective. The similarity in design, are that they are both Modern Looking, and have great Road Presence.
The LS460, is definitely the more comfortable car, its superbly quiet, smooth, and its damn amazing that you can steer with just your little finger (SERIOUSLY). The Sound System is as many are aware of. Excellent. Even better then the Audi Bang & Olufsen system. Also, in terms of power, i guess for the majority of us, the LS 460 has a more than satisfactory amount of it.
Is it just me or does the LS seem bigger then the Merc. I guess people who have driven both would think this way, because the LS just feels soo huge inside. I think its probably due to the ride, whereby, its absolutely not sporty enough. When you drive around, you feel more like your floating, although its really easy to drive, drivers would have to get used to that sense of disconnection between the steering and tires.
The S Class, is very different., when you get in, you dont feel the softness of the Leather, compared to the LS, it feels firm. The massage seats are not even as great as the Ottoman Seats in the LS. However, that engine in it, WOW. Seriously fantastic. I have never driven anything else with that kind of aggressiveness. When you step the gas, you do not hear a rumble. What you hear, is the sound of a jet's woosh. The entire cars setup is more firm, and really, the handling is pretty great for a car that size. You can actually trash it around, and the ABC catches up at every bend, pumping the suspension to keep the car flat. Set it to comfort, and yeah the ride becomes smoother, but its definitely not Lexus Comfortable.
I guess you really just need to know what kind of car you want? If your the kind with lots of money to spare, and love performance, power, together with the executive look, that allows you to bring the whole family out. Then yeah! The S600 is awesome. However if comfort is what you want, and you live in those countries or cities, whereby speed is very strictly law enforced, then you better stick with the LS460, which would already be a threat to your drivers license.
In terms of build quality, i feel that the Lexus is better. I know the S600 has more leather etc. But i guess till i ever sit in a Rolls or Maybach, i will never know what a hand built interior would feel like. (: The only other interior, i feel that can match the quality of the LS, would be the Audi A8.
(:
Great cars though! they both are.
Both are great cars, and like many of you guys have commented, design is really subjective. The similarity in design, are that they are both Modern Looking, and have great Road Presence.
The LS460, is definitely the more comfortable car, its superbly quiet, smooth, and its damn amazing that you can steer with just your little finger (SERIOUSLY). The Sound System is as many are aware of. Excellent. Even better then the Audi Bang & Olufsen system. Also, in terms of power, i guess for the majority of us, the LS 460 has a more than satisfactory amount of it.
Is it just me or does the LS seem bigger then the Merc. I guess people who have driven both would think this way, because the LS just feels soo huge inside. I think its probably due to the ride, whereby, its absolutely not sporty enough. When you drive around, you feel more like your floating, although its really easy to drive, drivers would have to get used to that sense of disconnection between the steering and tires.
The S Class, is very different., when you get in, you dont feel the softness of the Leather, compared to the LS, it feels firm. The massage seats are not even as great as the Ottoman Seats in the LS. However, that engine in it, WOW. Seriously fantastic. I have never driven anything else with that kind of aggressiveness. When you step the gas, you do not hear a rumble. What you hear, is the sound of a jet's woosh. The entire cars setup is more firm, and really, the handling is pretty great for a car that size. You can actually trash it around, and the ABC catches up at every bend, pumping the suspension to keep the car flat. Set it to comfort, and yeah the ride becomes smoother, but its definitely not Lexus Comfortable.
I guess you really just need to know what kind of car you want? If your the kind with lots of money to spare, and love performance, power, together with the executive look, that allows you to bring the whole family out. Then yeah! The S600 is awesome. However if comfort is what you want, and you live in those countries or cities, whereby speed is very strictly law enforced, then you better stick with the LS460, which would already be a threat to your drivers license.
In terms of build quality, i feel that the Lexus is better. I know the S600 has more leather etc. But i guess till i ever sit in a Rolls or Maybach, i will never know what a hand built interior would feel like. (: The only other interior, i feel that can match the quality of the LS, would be the Audi A8.
(:
Great cars though! they both are.
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Jaisgrace (12-01-18)
07-30-08, 03:07 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Oh to compare!
This is a debate that Mercedes owners have had with Lexus owners ever since Lexus started winning all the awards for car of the year. The only issue I have with Mercedes owners is their superior attitude when giving their opinions on why the Mercedes is better. To state that Lexus failed poorly is overstated. To say it failed to become equal with the S600 I can respect that but, you seem to have just treated this great car like it was an entry level non name car in your statement about it.
I feel your choice to return the Lexus. Lexus owners are like those who like Wendy's or Burger King and Benz owners are McDonalds lovers. What I mean is that McDonalds has been around longer and has a tradition to go along with it while Wendy's and Burger King will always be younger in terms of years serving the public. I think Lexus suffers from this same oh, look at the little baby she's/he's so cute syndrome! The problem is that Lexus isnt a baby luxury car anymore and its about time Benz owners step up and give the Lexus its due. Not quite but, coming up on 20 years and already a top 4-5 luxury car company. Not bad so please Benz owners show the class that you all have and be more respectful of what the Japanese car company has been able to accomplish!
L.G.N.M
I feel your choice to return the Lexus. Lexus owners are like those who like Wendy's or Burger King and Benz owners are McDonalds lovers. What I mean is that McDonalds has been around longer and has a tradition to go along with it while Wendy's and Burger King will always be younger in terms of years serving the public. I think Lexus suffers from this same oh, look at the little baby she's/he's so cute syndrome! The problem is that Lexus isnt a baby luxury car anymore and its about time Benz owners step up and give the Lexus its due. Not quite but, coming up on 20 years and already a top 4-5 luxury car company. Not bad so please Benz owners show the class that you all have and be more respectful of what the Japanese car company has been able to accomplish!
L.G.N.M
08-09-08, 02:54 PM
#43
I've just finished driving a Mercedes S320 Cdi (diesel) round UK for 2 weeks and about 1200 miles. Then I spent the last 2 days back in my LS600h, which I owned for 1 week before the trip.
So I'm in a good position to make a comparison between two similar and opposing cars after I had driven both for around the same timeframe, and as a new driver to both.
To start at the end of the test - the LS600 kicks butt. It was outright better in many ways - not just one or two subtle differences.
The first thing I noticed when I got into the Lexus at the airport back home (dropped off there an hour before I returned to the country... all part of the mighty Lexus experience!) was that the LS600 oozed luxury I had forgotten about. It was more comfortable, looked better inside than the Merc with a more sophisticated leather/wood combination, and overall the interior was better designed. The S-class was nice with the same amount of wood/leather, but lacked the X factor feeling of superior design. No question the Merc has a quality look, but manages to feel less so after a few miles and you get used to it. The LS still looks good even after the initial experience wears off.
As soon as I pulled out of the airport park - to the amusement of the couple getting into their car in the next bay who were obviously wondering how I managed to move along on the flat without any sound - the upmarket feel was magnified by the near-silence in the interior. There was no road noise at low speed, and barely a whispery growl from the engine when it seamlessly kicked in. I couldn't hear the wind or traffic because of the double thickness glass - an option available for the S-class generally but not given on my hire car that I could tell. The S320 also lost points because it had a somewhat clattery diesel that made the car sound cheap. By contrast the muted sound of the LS V8 engine gave an pleasant feeling of sumptuousness.
The true test came on the open road. As I accelerated the LS, nothing changed... the engine sound was barely magnified, the ride remained soft and pliant. The Mercedes accelerated well, but made hard work of it... there wasn't the impression you were being wafted along like the LS.
I found the S320 also soaked up bumps and ridges quite well without the porpising that the LS exhibits on 'comfort' setting, but the wallowing didn't bother me unduly.
This comparison was a turning point for me because in my first week of ownership I thought the LS600 ride seemed hard and bumpy. I complained about it in a couple of posts here, so making a direct comparison between the two modes of transport just days apart was a great advantage. Fact is - the LS600 simply has the Mercedes beat for comfort. The Lexus is a vastly better drive, design and ride than its rival.
But I had to make the physical comparison over many miles in order to realize it.
Other features were harder to compare. The sat-navs were different to use but equally as good. I liked the S320 way of just a single **** for address input on the center armrest, and it became very easy to use. I also liked the way the Mercedes gear change was made using a single lever on the steering wheel (exactly in the same position and size as the LS cruise control). Up for R, down for D. To park from Drive or Reverse you simply press the **** on the end of the lever. If you press the foot brake a little harder at rest, it will engage the handbrake and you press the accelerator a little to release it. Nice.
But these details weren't enough to overcome the vastly better features and ride experience that make up the LS600. Even my wife - who drives a bumpy SLK - thought the LS was many steps above the Merc for seating and ride comfort.
Compared to the Mercedes, my experience is that the LS600 is 10 times better and I probably would have to compare it now to a Bentley or Rolls Royce to get any improvement.
I was an advocate of the LX470, and I am now also an unashamed admirer of the Lexus LS brand!
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun car)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
So I'm in a good position to make a comparison between two similar and opposing cars after I had driven both for around the same timeframe, and as a new driver to both.
To start at the end of the test - the LS600 kicks butt. It was outright better in many ways - not just one or two subtle differences.
The first thing I noticed when I got into the Lexus at the airport back home (dropped off there an hour before I returned to the country... all part of the mighty Lexus experience!) was that the LS600 oozed luxury I had forgotten about. It was more comfortable, looked better inside than the Merc with a more sophisticated leather/wood combination, and overall the interior was better designed. The S-class was nice with the same amount of wood/leather, but lacked the X factor feeling of superior design. No question the Merc has a quality look, but manages to feel less so after a few miles and you get used to it. The LS still looks good even after the initial experience wears off.
As soon as I pulled out of the airport park - to the amusement of the couple getting into their car in the next bay who were obviously wondering how I managed to move along on the flat without any sound - the upmarket feel was magnified by the near-silence in the interior. There was no road noise at low speed, and barely a whispery growl from the engine when it seamlessly kicked in. I couldn't hear the wind or traffic because of the double thickness glass - an option available for the S-class generally but not given on my hire car that I could tell. The S320 also lost points because it had a somewhat clattery diesel that made the car sound cheap. By contrast the muted sound of the LS V8 engine gave an pleasant feeling of sumptuousness.
The true test came on the open road. As I accelerated the LS, nothing changed... the engine sound was barely magnified, the ride remained soft and pliant. The Mercedes accelerated well, but made hard work of it... there wasn't the impression you were being wafted along like the LS.
I found the S320 also soaked up bumps and ridges quite well without the porpising that the LS exhibits on 'comfort' setting, but the wallowing didn't bother me unduly.
This comparison was a turning point for me because in my first week of ownership I thought the LS600 ride seemed hard and bumpy. I complained about it in a couple of posts here, so making a direct comparison between the two modes of transport just days apart was a great advantage. Fact is - the LS600 simply has the Mercedes beat for comfort. The Lexus is a vastly better drive, design and ride than its rival.
But I had to make the physical comparison over many miles in order to realize it.
Other features were harder to compare. The sat-navs were different to use but equally as good. I liked the S320 way of just a single **** for address input on the center armrest, and it became very easy to use. I also liked the way the Mercedes gear change was made using a single lever on the steering wheel (exactly in the same position and size as the LS cruise control). Up for R, down for D. To park from Drive or Reverse you simply press the **** on the end of the lever. If you press the foot brake a little harder at rest, it will engage the handbrake and you press the accelerator a little to release it. Nice.
But these details weren't enough to overcome the vastly better features and ride experience that make up the LS600. Even my wife - who drives a bumpy SLK - thought the LS was many steps above the Merc for seating and ride comfort.
Compared to the Mercedes, my experience is that the LS600 is 10 times better and I probably would have to compare it now to a Bentley or Rolls Royce to get any improvement.
I was an advocate of the LX470, and I am now also an unashamed admirer of the Lexus LS brand!
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun car)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
08-10-08, 05:50 PM
#44
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I'm at 11.2 liter/100km right now, but it's usually round the 12 l/km. And I'm in New Zealand.
For one brief glorious spell I got 10.1 l/km, but that only lasted about 30kms.
I wish I could figure out how to get the lowest, just for a personal challenge. I've read the hypermiling sites (http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...milingterm.htm) while I'm doing most of those things, I think our hilly geography is the culprit.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
For one brief glorious spell I got 10.1 l/km, but that only lasted about 30kms.
I wish I could figure out how to get the lowest, just for a personal challenge. I've read the hypermiling sites (http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...milingterm.htm) while I'm doing most of those things, I think our hilly geography is the culprit.
--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)
Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)
08-10-08, 08:31 PM
#45
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I'm not sure if this is of any comparison, but i have driven an S600, and a full spec Lexus LS460. I dont own either, so i cant be accused of being biased!
Both are great cars, and like many of you guys have commented, design is really subjective. The similarity in design, are that they are both Modern Looking, and have great Road Presence.
The LS460, is definitely the more comfortable car, its superbly quiet, smooth, and its damn amazing that you can steer with just your little finger (SERIOUSLY). The Sound System is as many are aware of. Excellent. Even better then the Audi Bang & Olufsen system. Also, in terms of power, i guess for the majority of us, the LS 460 has a more than satisfactory amount of it.
Is it just me or does the LS seem bigger then the Merc. I guess people who have driven both would think this way, because the LS just feels soo huge inside. I think its probably due to the ride, whereby, its absolutely not sporty enough. When you drive around, you feel more like your floating, although its really easy to drive, drivers would have to get used to that sense of disconnection between the steering and tires.
The S Class, is very different., when you get in, you dont feel the softness of the Leather, compared to the LS, it feels firm. The massage seats are not even as great as the Ottoman Seats in the LS. However, that engine in it, WOW. Seriously fantastic. I have never driven anything else with that kind of aggressiveness. When you step the gas, you do not hear a rumble. What you hear, is the sound of a jet's woosh. The entire cars setup is more firm, and really, the handling is pretty great for a car that size. You can actually trash it around, and the ABC catches up at every bend, pumping the suspension to keep the car flat. Set it to comfort, and yeah the ride becomes smoother, but its definitely not Lexus Comfortable.
I guess you really just need to know what kind of car you want? If your the kind with lots of money to spare, and love performance, power, together with the executive look, that allows you to bring the whole family out. Then yeah! The S600 is awesome. However if comfort is what you want, and you live in those countries or cities, whereby speed is very strictly law enforced, then you better stick with the LS460, which would already be a threat to your drivers license.
In terms of build quality, i feel that the Lexus is better. I know the S600 has more leather etc. But i guess till i ever sit in a Rolls or Maybach, i will never know what a hand built interior would feel like. (: The only other interior, i feel that can match the quality of the LS, would be the Audi A8.
(:
Great cars though! they both are.
Both are great cars, and like many of you guys have commented, design is really subjective. The similarity in design, are that they are both Modern Looking, and have great Road Presence.
The LS460, is definitely the more comfortable car, its superbly quiet, smooth, and its damn amazing that you can steer with just your little finger (SERIOUSLY). The Sound System is as many are aware of. Excellent. Even better then the Audi Bang & Olufsen system. Also, in terms of power, i guess for the majority of us, the LS 460 has a more than satisfactory amount of it.
Is it just me or does the LS seem bigger then the Merc. I guess people who have driven both would think this way, because the LS just feels soo huge inside. I think its probably due to the ride, whereby, its absolutely not sporty enough. When you drive around, you feel more like your floating, although its really easy to drive, drivers would have to get used to that sense of disconnection between the steering and tires.
The S Class, is very different., when you get in, you dont feel the softness of the Leather, compared to the LS, it feels firm. The massage seats are not even as great as the Ottoman Seats in the LS. However, that engine in it, WOW. Seriously fantastic. I have never driven anything else with that kind of aggressiveness. When you step the gas, you do not hear a rumble. What you hear, is the sound of a jet's woosh. The entire cars setup is more firm, and really, the handling is pretty great for a car that size. You can actually trash it around, and the ABC catches up at every bend, pumping the suspension to keep the car flat. Set it to comfort, and yeah the ride becomes smoother, but its definitely not Lexus Comfortable.
I guess you really just need to know what kind of car you want? If your the kind with lots of money to spare, and love performance, power, together with the executive look, that allows you to bring the whole family out. Then yeah! The S600 is awesome. However if comfort is what you want, and you live in those countries or cities, whereby speed is very strictly law enforced, then you better stick with the LS460, which would already be a threat to your drivers license.
In terms of build quality, i feel that the Lexus is better. I know the S600 has more leather etc. But i guess till i ever sit in a Rolls or Maybach, i will never know what a hand built interior would feel like. (: The only other interior, i feel that can match the quality of the LS, would be the Audi A8.
(:
Great cars though! they both are.
Interestingly on the economy front I drove from the Bay Area to LA today and the S600 averaged 21.3 mpg, (mostly freeway) with speeds in the 70-80 mph region. I could not get it any higher, but for a 5.5 TTV12 its not too bad... Its the character of the engine that you spend most of your time in the 1500 - 2000 rpm band. The S600 takes about 50-100 miles to wind itself up to these "efficiencies" though. What sort of mpg's are LS600h drivers getting in similar long distance cruises?
Chris