jmcraney

The recommendations provided in the pictures that have REV A in the lower right corner should be bulletproof.

The recommendations that don't have rev in the lower right corner could actually make things worse. I apologize for the confusion. If anyone wants to know what is wrong with the first pictures I would be glad to explain but I don't really think it is important.

I am unable to delete those pictures because Mike_TX had to help me post them. The pictures in #10 and #15 of this string should be deleted or marked as obsolete. And the corresponding pictures in the old string should be treated the same way.

encore888

Done, the pics in this thread pg. 1 have been updated to "Rev. A" and the older ones are marked as obsolete.

jmcraney

I have revised the instructions provided in Response #9 above. Amen!

jmcraney

I want to apologize to anyone who used the initial procedure and got marginal improvement, no improvement or made things worse. When I shared that with you my intent was to give you hope that a solution to the “Wind Noise” problem was on the way. I really didn’t expect many would try it – it assumed a level of understanding that many people would not have - and I thought that Lexus would jump on it and everybody would be happy. Then I began to realize that it was likely that this was not going to get any attention. Since I thought it was very important to Lexus I tried a little harder to be sure that they knew what I discovered. I want everyone to understand that I have made it plain to Lexus from the very first day, in very plain words that even a lawyer would not find ambiguous, that I am not seeking a reward or recognition. To this day I am uncertain that the people at Lexus who need to know this information – the engineers – have been made aware of it. I have gotten a couple of letters and a phone call from their legal group along with the return of the package that I sent them, at their request, telling me that they are can not accept my input. I hope that someone peeked before they sent that stuff back. Getting information to them is akin to force-feeding a Great White Shark when he isn’t hungry.

Several times I have thought that I should give up on this because it is consuming a lot of time, and causing a lot of anguish, the dealership is starting to be sort of cool to me, my wife was disturbed by the call from the Toyota attorney and the time I am spending on this, and besides I don’t have a dog in this hunt anymore – my car is fixed and perfect. I want to thank those of you who have offered your encouragement, critique, and feedback. You have provided a valuable service to all of us, including Lexus. For Lexus, this problem has taken on a life of its own, almost urban legend, I think because it is so subtle. It has certainly affected their reputation – it is not only a problem in the 2007 LS460s, it is being reported in the 2008s too and I have seen a couple of reports about the LS600s. The LS460s and LS600s appear to have the same design for the doors. I spoke to the owner of an LS600HL – it’s a beautiful car - a couple of days ago and asked if he was having any “Wind Noise” problems. He said that everything was perfect with his car.

For the rest of us, Lexus has the money and we have the cars. Unless this problem is dealt with, the resale value of our cars will be diminished. And the pleasure and pride of ownership will also be diminished. I continue to hope that Lexus will “get it.” I think you can improve your pride and pleasure of ownership by getting your car fixed. It is quiet – like a tomb – when you get all the elements satisfied. If there is no other way then the fix that I have detailed should help it and the revised procedure should provide noticeable improvement.

Only a few have participated in this discussion while I have been active, but I know that many have been interested in the past. It is evident, by the view count, that a lot a people are watching this. I am not sure whether they also have noise problems, suspect they have noise problems or they are just curious, like I sometimes am. As for you “silent participants” I ask you to let us know if you are having any success with the information that I provided, either as a DYIer or getting it done at your dealership “on the QT.” If it is not working for you, please share that with us too. But if you are getting an improvement then let us know and be sure to let Lexus know either through your dealer, an email or snail mail.

If anybody is wondering what was wrong with the first procedure: the height of the bead was very critical in certain areas and if it was not tall enough, especially in the linear vertical portion, then dislodging the mounting tape caused the air leak problem to be worse or no better. Again, I am sorry if I caused a problem or caused you to have to do it twice. If you got perfection the first time, with the original procedure, good, it could have produced very good results. If you didn’t get good results the first time, then try the revised procedure – the potential for improvement is worth the effort. The revised procedure removes the criticality of the bead height in most areas and I have given you advice on the bead height where it matters.

jlawr

Jim, you've thought of a fix no one else has found -- and it works -- for some.
I'm sorry to hear the anguish in your "voice."

Please take pride in all the time and effort you've given to this forum and just enjoy your new found serenity.

And know that I, like many here I suppose, truly appreciate your diligence. I hope you can ride off in to the sunset in peace.

garyr

+1

PatsSoxfan

Here is my update after the window seal kit fix (I'm not sure what it's called). The work was done this past Monday. I wanted to drive the car a bit so that I could give you an accurate account of what this fix did. My conclusion is that the swishing wind sound has been diminished a little after this fix. Prior to this fix I would get the swishing sound almost always, but it was more evident during strong cross winds. I now only hear it during strong cross winds when moving above 60mph and it does not appear to be as loud as before. I wish I could tell you that it is totally eliminated but I cannot. But it is not a big deal at all. I imagine it is impossible not to have at least a little wind swishing noise. This slight improvement combined with the diminished exterior noise after jmcraney's triangular fix makes me happy.

I do have a question for jmcraney: Is the wind noise on your car TOTALLY gone or do you have a bit of swishing wind sound as I do?

jmcraney

I drove my car over 400 miles today in wind and rain. It is completely quiet, not a trace of air leaks. Before I had lots of swoosh-swoosh at the front corner of the windows. At times I had the feeling that water would blow through. This is the same car that I was going to sell just a few weeks ago. It is completely quiet when I drive over smooth roads. I do notice that there is lots of noise when I drive over rough textured asphalt but as far as I know all vehicles have that to some extent depending on the tire rubber compound. It is so much quieter I don't even hear the water noise from passing cars or water noise from my own tires that I was hearing. Emergency vehicles seem to be very far off when thay pass, not like they are in the car with me, it is almost a safety issue. I can no longer hear cars in my blind-spot and before I could sense them without looking at the mirrors. And the noise of thunder from close lightening strikes is very muffled. It is just an exceptionally quiet car now. Maybe what I suggested will not work for you but be assured that it is possible to make the LS460 quiet. I hope you will regard this as data and not a testimonial.

PatsSoxfan

The slight swishing noise I am having is not from the corner of the windshield but from the very top during cross winds. As you stated on an earlier post, your car is tomb-like quiet. Now you got me wondering if the dealer did not apply thick enough sealant bead on the straight vertical gap on the triangle.

jmcraney

I know that I have sounded desperate and pathetic a couple of times so I hope you will just consider this information sharing.

After I did the sealing on my car the first time, I had perfection on the driver's side and still a little air leak kind of swishing on the passenger side. As most of you know, that sort of thing is difficult to get a grip on because of variations caused by wind direction and speed and since I had made such a great improvement I decided to let it go. It was much quieter overall. When Dmitry said that doing the sealing on his car didn't offer any improvement I had a hard time with that because I was so convinced that everyone would get some improvement, even many who don't know they have a problem. I am very trusting and confidant in my fellow man and when things that I am involved in don’t go as I expect them to, the first thing I look at is myself or the instructions and advice that I have provided. I then decided to pull the trim off my passenger door again and give it another look. That is when I found the .040 gap, but I wasn’t initially concerned about that because I thought it would be inside the sealant bead and would not make any difference. I originally thought that you could just put that bead around the perimeter, press the trim on and presto, everything would be sealed. After looking at it some more it came to me that the area under the trim is not flat but has a complex contour and that requires a complex bead height - tall along the vertical leaner part and very thin around most of the perimeter - to attain good results. Getting that right isn’t easy even for the most talented technicians when they are aware of the requirement and what I originally suggested was a set up for failure. It could very easily not improve things or make it worse. I was very lucky that I got some improvement the first time I tried. I then decided that I would try to come up with something that would be more forgiving - require less understanding - and have a higher probability of producing good results. I believe that the revised details that I have provided in response #9 above satisfies those requirements. I did my passenger door that way and I have attained perfection. I will probably redo my driver’s door just in case it can be any better than perfect. I am still astounded that this sort of repair can make such a big difference. Good luck to everyone - your problems may be much different than mine.

CEOEngr

Jeff:

As promised earlier (via PM) that I will keep you posted with the outcome.

Since I am mechanically challenged, I drafted two of my rookie engineers who are known for being "weekend car molesters" and made them read your posts mulitple of times prior to performing the caulking/repair surgery with special attention to the height of the beads. I had the car sitting in the garage for over two weeks while I was gone to UAE. This morning I had the first opportunity to drive it. All I can say is WOW what a difference, it is very difficult to describe my exuberance at the results. I still have a slight periodic swish sound but that is from crosswinds and I can live with that.

Once again, Jeff, a big "Thank You" from us for all your efforts.

-James

daryll40

I really would love to see the results on my car, but I am TOTALLY afraid to touch it really. Any of you near here (Pittsburgh)?

jmcraney

James,

Thank you for your feedback. I was anxiously awaiting your return. I knew from our previous contact that you would try this and I am glad that you got someone to help you who could make the necessary adjustments to compensate for the inadequices of my original procedure. I hope your words will be an inspiration for others to take some action either as DYIers or to get some help through their dealers. I think anyone who has a "Wind Noise" problem will benfit from this and some who don't know they have a problem could bendfit.

The only thing that I ask of you as payback is that you let your dealer or Lexus know that you have fixed your car and exactly how you fixed it. I think that Lexus is continuing to build cars this way and I think that the dealers have a lot of inventory that has this problem.

Thanks again for taking the time to help all of us.


Regards,

Jeff

daryll40

Ignore my prior plea for help, as I did it myself!

Jim you were right...there isn't much to it really. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it worked. It's curing right now.

daryll40

I was out for a little while in the rain this morning and the car DOES seem quieter (although, remember, I was fairly satisfied with the quietness to begin with). I'll post more later in the weekend after more motoring.

Thanks again Jim for being the engineering genius that Lexus is not!

P.S. I am editing my original post 12 hours later. Lots of rain today and the car is as quiet as a rolling library! HUGE difference from before (I noticed noise when cars passed during rain...no longer!!!).

Lexus should recall every LS460 made and do this cheap, easy fix immediately. H-E-L-L-O Lexus! Are you listening?