jmcraney

This only applies to '07 LS460 (swb) and a few '08 LS460 (swb). You seem to indicate that yours is an 08. Check the VIN to see if this applies to your car.

Here is the TSIB with definitive information: http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...L-NV009-07.pdf

Lextrician

sucks for me im out of warranty 52k

nsaldanh

if you bought it CPO then it might be worthwhile to call Lexus corporate and ask them nicely to fix it. They just might do so.

pibob

Jeff and the others, I solved the wind noise problem 8 months ago. The fix was easy, I tried JM's and Lexus solutions. The best fix was to sell the car which I did. Sold my 07 SWB and bought a LS430 with only 38K miles on it same mileage as my 460. Am very happy and no wind noise or other recalls. Have not been to the dealer for any problems with the LS430. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!

BuhZilly

So, I got the car(2007 LS) back today and can say the retrofit did wonders. I am pleased with Lexus's "goodwill" gesture to agree to pay for the fix. I also noticed 3 round plugs on the frame in the door area under the a-pillar. I suppose those are covering holes that were there. Anyways, my service adviser said it was roughly a $2,500 job(took *8* days) to complete. They even agreed to re-tint the glass. Glad to have the car finally back, and now it's completely the car I assumed it'd be when I bought it.

NJSTSX

Back in 2010 my dad traded his 2005 LS430 for a new 2010 LS460 and it had the wind noise issue. The car went in for service at least 8 times to try to solve the issue but the dealership could never find a fix. He finally got rid of the car and was disappointed in the issue and the fact that he has owned several LS models in the past as well as other Lexus models and never had a issue that could not be fixed. A few days ago we went to look at the new 2013 LS460 and he loved everything about the car until we drove it. Unfortunetly the wind noise was still very apparent in the 2013 model as well. I sat in the back seat behind the driver and it was very loud at highway speeds. The salesperson said that they had fixed the issue by redesigning that triangle piece at the front of the drivers window but it did not seem to change anything.

jmcraney

We see many reports that LS460s and LS600s of all year models are exceptionally quiet. And, we see some reports of "wind noise" of varying degree. The wind noise reports were very common in the '07 models, a little less common in the '08 models, but there have been reports of wind noise in all models, including the 2013 model. There are very few reports that Lexus has been able to successfully deal with this problem. And, there have been many reports of successful repairs by DIYers. I think the triangle redesign that your sales person told you about is the addition of a "vortex generator" to the triangle trim at the corners of the front windows. It is unlikely that it will help the wind noise issue - it's sort of a "solution looking for a problem" and the only improvement from that will probably be slightly cleaner taillights.

Instructions for the DIY Wind Noise repair are here and even if you are not interested in a DIY repair, the first part has an explanation as to the cause of the problem: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html

Fhobbs

I know lots have been said on this issue and I have read all the posts. I recently purchased a 2007ls460 with49k miles. Beautiful car in immaculate condition. After I had it for a few days, I noticed the wind noise at speeds 40mph plus. I did the DIY fix and think I did a good job on it. Stopped some of the noise, but not all. I took it to the dealer to see if maybe they would fix the window as per the technical bulletin. They checked the plug holes and said I had a couple of them "pushed in". They fixed for me and test drove and reported that they heard a little bit of wind noise and suggested I call corporate to see if they might fix or split the cost to to the technical bulliten repair. Drove the car home and no doubt the wind noise was much better with just the plugs. Still some noise though, especially at 60+ mph.
Called corporate and waited three days for someone to get back to me. No, they could not help me -out of warranty. I looked the door over, gaskets,etc, with a fine tooth comb and just cannot figure where the wind noise is caused by. I know where I hear it, right above my left ear in the door jamb and sometimes from there to the front of the window. My wife is always getting on me because I lower the window just a little and then raise it as my first reaction is that the window is not all the way up.
I am debating whether to pay for the glass to be replaced. I really like the car but get bummed out with the wind noise sometime. Even though I bought the used, I still paid a lot of money for it and would expect more from a luxury car of this caliber.
I know this is an old post and there is probably nothing more to add than what has been said, but it appears that 4 years later, Lexus still does not have a solution or even an idea what causes the wind noise.

williakz

Au contraire, mon frere. Check out the 2013 LS at your dealer. You'll see something very different than your car has. Probably a good starting point for conversation with the dealer and the factory rep. Good luck.

thegov3

I would search for additional posts on the LS 460 wind noice. There might be something in the Forum that may help. I saw several posts about seals around the window being an issue. I would repalce those before the glass. Much cheaper.

Fhobbs

Yes, good idea. I think I read a post about a window seal kit. I will try that. While there I am going to check te showroom on the 2013 and see how Lexus addressed the problem.

Fhobbs

I visited dealer who quoted $950. + tax to do the tsb (except glass) replacement of window seals, etc for both front doors/windows. Seems like a reasonable price, especially if it works.
I looked at the 2013's and do see that they have put an airfoil or stiffener wing on the triangle trim pieces. I wonder if a new trim for the 2013 would fit on the 2007?

jmcraney

I have followed the “LS460 Wind Noise” issue closely, here, and in several other forums on the Internet, initially because I had the problem and later through my efforts to help others. The wind noise was a major problem in some, but not all of the ’07 and ’08 models. There were reports of that problem in the ‘09s, ‘10s but the frequency of the reports were declining and now although there has been a report about a ’13 model, reports of the wind noise problem are for all practical purposes gone. In 2007 Lexus was much astir about the problem. You can read some of the early discussions in this forum to tell that they were genuinely concerned. Lots of things were being tried but nothing seemed to work. It turns out that the cause of the problem for most of the problem cars was a trim defect. As far as I know Lexus still refuses to make any repair to the trim in response to wind noise complaints. Their current position regarding wind noise complaints seems to be that all cars meet specification.

You can read some of the early wind noise discussions here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...d-threads.html

If you will read the early discussions you will see that in 2007, before Lexus decided to retrofit the windows and during the period when there were so many complaints, that there were many owners who did not have a wind noise problem and found their cars acceptably quiet. There were discussions between owners, some bordering on hostility, as to whether the wind noise was imagined. Those were people who were comparing apples to apples. So, to assume that the single pane windows would not provide satisfactory performance seems unjustified.

Lexus was forced to buyback a very large number of the LS460/600s through Lemon Law actions because of wind noise. The buybacks were mostly ’07 and ’08 models but included quiet a few later models too. The point being that the wind noise buybacks included cars with the thicker glass too.

I think that there is little doubt that the thicker glass increases the bilateral isolation from outside noise, both self-generated and ambient. As to whether you would want to spend a lot of money for that marginal improvement would be somewhat related to how deep your pockets are. It is unlikely that whatever is causing the wind noise in your car is related to the single pane windows. You should look carefully at your windows to be sure that they have not already been changed, especially since the car has a wind noise problem – Lexus was very anxious and willing, and strongly recommended the replacement of the windows for anyone who complained of wind noise and that attitude prevailed for several years. A lot of cars got the retrofit. That was a long time ago and it is possible that your service advisor is not familiar with what to look for. The service advisor can probably determine from the service records if there is an indication that they have been changed. I would also ask for a printout of the service records or go to the Lexus.com site with the car VIN and see if there were any complaints about wind noise or information about wind noise remediation. A common notation about wind noise complaints in service records is “checked windows.”

We’ve seen a few inputs on window seal problems. Most of them involved crimps, especially along the vertical part along the rear of the glass. Another vulnerable area would be the front corner near the triangle trim. I think that any seal problem that would cause a wind noise problem would be clearly visible. It takes something pretty significant to cause trouble. These types of failures involve the seal only on one side and only require the replacement of the seal that has a defect.

There have seen a few reports of bilateral seal replacement to mitigate wind noise, and some claims of success. I seriously doubt that the seal replacement provided any real benefit. In some of the cases of claimed improvement it was probably due to replacement of the triangle trim as part of the seal change out.

There were some reports of crazy and extreme efforts to fix the wind noise back in ’07, when all this was going on. I have seen reports of dealers, and owners adding material behind the window gaskets and door gaskets and other wild stuff. If you happen to have a car that has been altered then maybe you would need to de-mod it or replace the window seals but that would probably be rare.

Nearly all the cars that had the wind noise problem likely suffered from only the trim defect initially and probably some other problems were induced in repair attempts.

We’ve also seen a few inputs on the plugs like you had replaced. I think there is very little possibility that any improvement can be gained by that. I understand that when the desire for improvement is strong we sometimes feel that things are better when they really haven’t changed – been there, done that. I personally replaced the plugs on my car and for a while I thought it was better.

The new trim with the airfoil or fin - the technical term is Vortex Generator – might offer some improvement and it is likely to fit. But, the only improvement would be to the extent that it adheres better than the trim that is on your car now. The vortex generator might reduce your car’s self-generated noise but only to an extent that could be measured with instrumentation.

The characteristic that makes the cabin of a car quiet is sound isolation. It is the property that separates us from the sounds that the car makes (self-generated noise) and the sounds of the environment (ambient noise) that the car is in. It should be very easy to measure the isolation and I think you would get something like 30dB. That means that if you stood on the side of the freeway during rush hour traffic and noted the level of the roar and then you got in your LS460 that was parked nearby and closed the doors and windows the sound would seem to be about 10% as loud as it was outside (for you scientific types – I understand that the sound pressure would be X.001 but the perceived sound would be 1/8). When this sound isolation is up where it should be then moderate sounds outside the car are not heard and loud sounds are much reduced.

The most significant effect of the triangle trim defect was that it reduced the car’s sound isolation. It was reduced so much that when cars passed you they seemed to be in the cabin with you. This effect was there even if you weren’t moving and the engine wasn’t running – sort of like having the window partially down. We saw concerns about the aerodynamics of the side mirrors because owners could tell that there was more noise when the mirrors were deployed. Of course this was the result of lowered noise isolation and had the isolation been up where it should be then the mirrors would have operated is a sort of ghostly fashion.

The point I am trying to make is that any reduction of the self-generated noise by employing devices like vortex generators will not improve the perceived noise as the sound isolation for all LS460/600s is already sufficient to cause self-generated noise to be imperceptible. It is sort of like standing on the side of a busy freeway and being certain you just heard a 2013 LS460 go by because it, the car, was so quiet.

So, what can you do before you make the leap into the expensive stuff?

1. Find three friends/acquaintances to give you their opinion – be sure they have good binaural hearing. Take them for a ride, one at a time and have them ride in the center of the back seat while you drive. It is okay for them to lean up between the front seats and turn their head in any direction. Use the same route for each test. Ask them to put their finger on where the noise is coming from.

2. Determine if the noise is bilateral. By that I mean is it the same on both sides. Bilateral noise might be a good case for window replacement. If the noise is not bilateral then make a visual comparison of the window/seal on the good side to the bad side to see if anything stands out. A good way to make a comparison is to take pictures of both sides and compare the pictures side by side. If you are unable to arrange the pictures for a comparison then I can do that for you.

3. See if you think the sound isolation is adequate and symmetrical. Allowing a car to overtake you in an adjacent lane provides a good test signal. You do this in such a manner to make the differential speed about 5 MPH and that provides you a slow-changing broadband noise source that covers a wide area.

Here is a post I did a while back that might be helpful: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/3543756-post130.html

4. If you don’t get any clear indications then consider the adequacy of your trim repair. That DIY trim repair is easy to do and inexpensive. I did mine three times and realized an improvement each time.

williakz

Obviously, jmcraney is THE expert on this issue. My suggestion was to BEGIN discussion of the problem with Lexus centering on the 2013 trim piece with vortex generators. Lexus "fixed" the problem with this trim piece; you want the NEW trim piece; during installation of the NEW trim piece(s), you want isolation materials installed per jmcraney's DIY. There should be no dealer objection to this procedure; their interest begins and stops at the NEW trim piece. Worth a try and should be a helluva lot cheaper than new windows, seals, plugs, rugs, and drugs! Good luck.

Fhobbs

Wow. Again, I know this is an old discussion so I appreciate the input from jmcraney and everyone. I did do the visual of the window casings and seals on both sides and notice that the drivers side where I hear the wind noise has: compressed moldings at some places, a joint in the molding where the passenger side is a continuous piece and a few other things that are suspect.
I read again the link suggested, I have read every discussion thread on the subject on this site (I think). I also read the TSB on the wind noise kit and they practically take the door apart, windows out, under hood stuff and foam everywhere, but no mention of anything near the triangle trim. The TSB was put out in late 2007.

I am going to bite the bullet on the foam portion of the TSB, although it seems like it should be relatively inexpensive to replace the glass as well since it is a complete tear down. one concern: I am just over the VIN break for TSB for both foam and glass, and in the pocket for glass only. Service manager did not steer me away from my plan to foam only so I guess it's okay. I hope it is not a big waste of money. If i had not observed the differences in the foam moldings from one side to the other, I might consider the glass only.

The vortex looks cool, may try it is all else fails. I first heard of a vortex out in Sedona Az.