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LS460 Wind Noise Fix (continued discussion)

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Old 05-02-08, 06:54 AM   #61
kmaahs
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Default 08 No Lamisafe Side Glass

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Originally Posted by encore888 View Post
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have added an asterisk and noted that information. It helps to be as accurate as possible.
Do you know if dealerships are routinely replacing LS 460 swb side windows with Lamisafe if they do not have it? Would I be correct in assuming that Lamisafe is not only a better barrier to the sun (esp. UV a&b) as well as a stronger barrier against glass breakage? In other regards, my LS is my second Lexus and as before, a truly great car.
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Old 05-02-08, 02:16 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by PatsSoxfan View Post
Wow! This is very impressive, jmcraney. Not even any swishing sound. I am looking forward to doing this for my LS460L. I do have a question however. If I understand you correctly, there is no mounting tape needed, right? One just needs to apply the sealant on top of the mounting tape that is already there around the perimeter of the triangle and also apply the sealant cross stripe as shown in your photos, correct?
Patsoxfan,

Those are good questions. When I took those pieces off and looked carefully I got very excited - it was a sort of an AHA moment - and in my exuberance to find out if what I was seeing had the meaning that I thought it did, I just put a bead of sealant around without regard to the residue from the old mounting tape - some of the old tape was one one piece and some was on the other piece, thus the problem. Being a perfectionist I have considered pulling the pieces and cleaning everything up and putting them back but things are working so good that I haven't done that yet. To answer your question, you don't need any double stick tape and I don't think you will ever know if there was tape residue when you put it back on. Of course you should be sure that any old mounting tape residue is on good before you put the sealant on it. What you are trying to do is create a barrier so that air can't enter or exit around the holes (gaps) under the corners and those three registration holes. There are lots of creative ways to get that done. You want to make the sealant beads tall enough so that when you press the trim piece on it makes good contact all around but don't use an excessive amount. If you have any squish-out or surprises with the sealant be sure you let it cure before you try to correct that. My experience has been that getting things off that are stuck with this sealant can be done with a little care so if it doesn't go well the first time, just let the sealant dry and you can scrape it off. And be very careful not to get the sealant on any painted surface of your car!!!

As for the cross stripe: you could do something more creative like a ring of sealant around each of those registration holes. The main thing is to add some support out in the middle of the plastic trim piece. And a ring around each hole would add a redundant air isolation barrier.

Let us know your results - good or bad.

And please let us know what you see while you are doing this.

Last edited by jmcraney; 05-03-08 at 02:13 PM..
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Old 05-02-08, 05:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmaahs View Post
Do you know if dealerships are routinely replacing LS 460 swb side windows with Lamisafe if they do not have it? Would I be correct in assuming that Lamisafe is not only a better barrier to the sun (esp. UV a&b) as well as a stronger barrier against glass breakage? In other regards, my LS is my second Lexus and as before, a truly great car.
Welcome to CL, kmaahs!

I would think dealerships are probably only replacing LS 460 windows with Lamisafe as part of the wind noise fix, although that is just my educated guess. Based on this manufacturer site for Lamisafe/Temperlite, laminated glass does provide better barrier against breakage, although temperlite also has break-resistant and safety features. Laminated glass is listed as being 'virtually unaffected' by UV rays.

http://www.agc-automotive.com/englis.../lamisafe.html

Temperlite glass on the LS 460 does list a 'UVS' tag on the window logos, but I'm not sure whether that is a full indicator of UV protection.
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Old 05-02-08, 07:31 PM   #64
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Thanks again jmcraney! I think I get it. One needs to just use logic here. I am not going to do the work myself (I don't trust myself). My dealer told me that they would be pleased to do this for me. But I wanted to get all the pertinent information and present it to the service manager before I bring it in next week. I want to make sure they do the job right.
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Old 05-02-08, 08:34 PM   #65
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patsoxfan,

I think it is great that you are going to have some help from the pros on this. When they get to see what you have they will know what to do and it is best that you have their help in case there is some sort of surprise. The dealerships are the real salvation for Lexus and I think without the sanity provided by the dealerships Lexus would not be able to survive. Lexus' Customer Service and Legal groups seem to be lacking in common sense. Let us know how you make out.

I had a call from a snooty Toyota attorney today telling me that they were not interested in my ideas and inventions. When I tried to explain that I just wanted to make sure that they were aware of what I found and they should pass it to their engineering department I got another terse warning about not being interested in my ideas or inventions. I have tried to be gracious about this - maybe they are just embarrassed.
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Old 05-02-08, 09:06 PM   #66
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jmcraney,

I think I replied to your private message. I didn't know you could send private messages and I have no clue how this is done (I'm sure it's simple if you know the trick).

I am very pleased with my dealer. They have been very good to me for many years now.
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Old 05-03-08, 07:11 PM   #67
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Default JMCrany' fix

I just returned from a 600 mile trip. There is absolutely no doubt that the "fix" outlined by jmcrany has worked on my 2007 LS 460. The passenger side of my car previously continued to have some wind noise even after the front side windows were replaced. There is now no difference between the two sides. Both are very quiet. You can hear some muffled cross wind noise with strong head winds and/or high speeds but less than you would hear in other luxury cars.

Those owners of the LS 460 who are still experiencing wind noise should definitely try this procedure. It is really quite simple and the results make a fine vehicle ever so much better.
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Old 05-03-08, 07:29 PM   #68
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Default New Photo

New information.
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Last edited by jmcraney; 05-04-08 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 05-03-08, 08:05 PM   #69
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Bc07

Thank you for your support and the excellent feedback that you previously provided about how you fixed your car. It has been very valuable to me and others.

I was not satisfied that I had a complete understanding of all that was going on with my wind noise problem so I decided to remove one of the triangle-trim pieces that I sealed two weeks ago. I found a surprise.

I need to clarify several things here and first I want to assure anybody who has concerns about the adhesion of the sealant to the plastic and chrome - I said that I was concerned about that - it sticks very well, no problem. You can get the trim off if you need to, the sealant is not like epoxy and the trim piece is very durable so you just need to stick a flat tool and work it up. The sealant material has very good life qualities under extreme conditions, it should take heat, water, aging etc with out problems. So I think that if you decide to fix your car this way you can consider it a permanent fix. Also, I don't think there were any locking fingers on the the trim piece. When I looked at it again, carefully, I didn't seen any evidence that anything broke off. I think it is just on with mounting tape.

I found something that I think is very important and I need to be sure everyone is aware of it. I have posted a photo above showing another probable air infiltration route that I missed in my first analysis. It is very important that you take that large gap into account if you want good results. Maybe this gap is wider on some cars than others an that accounts for the reason that some have wind noise problems and some don't. The sealant bead pattern that I showed in my procedure takes care of this (only accidently) but if someone puts the bead on the wrong side of that gap they would probably not get very good results. So, either seal that gap separately or be sure you get the bead aft of it or both.

rdrtkd

Thank you for the information you provided in your post #55 above. I think Lexus is trying to fix that gap under the lower rear corner of the triangle-trim with foam from the inside. That will probably go a long way to helping with this problem but I don't think they will ever attain the results that are accorded by removing the triangle-trim piece and sealing it like I have done.

I apologize for any extra effort that might be required by my failure to notice that other gap. This job doesn't pay very well so you get what you pay for.

Last edited by jmcraney; 05-04-08 at 05:25 AM..
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Old 05-03-08, 09:06 PM   #70
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Good to get more reports of success with this. The triangular trim piece is probably applied by hand on the assembly line, which could explain why it is fitted better on some cars than others. IOW, some of us just end up with a better air seal than others.

Good work!

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Old 05-03-08, 10:00 PM   #71
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Thank you jmcraney for your diligent efforts on this, it is definitely of benefit to our forum members.

As the learning process continues, I expect we will get more owner accounts on the triangular trim fix, and perhaps eventually collect the information in an even more standardized format. So far, at least three owners on here have reported successful results with this procedure.
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Old 05-03-08, 11:24 PM   #72
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Good to see some good results from this new fix
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Old 05-04-08, 05:07 AM   #73
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Here is a revised image to add my new finding.
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Old 05-04-08, 05:12 AM   #74
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Here is a new image with revised sealing recommendations.
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Old 05-04-08, 08:49 AM   #75
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Default Wind noise repair

Those doing the repair described by jmcraney may find that using black rather than white silicone seal helps. Also there is a small plastic "guide pin" on the triangles that goes into the round hole in the lower right hand corner. This will most likely break off when you remove the triangles but no lasting damage will result and the triangles will fit well without their pins.

Good luck to all and I hope you are as pleased with the result as I am.
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Old 05-04-08, 08:49 AM
 
 
 
 
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