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LS460 Wind Noise Fix (continued discussion)

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Old 04-26-08, 08:47 AM   #46
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I think I have gotten my information to Lexus. I had an email from them yesterday asking me to provide my "proposal" in writing. I think that at least we know that they will soon be aware of what I found and they should be able to access the applicability and start providing some help for those who might benefit from it.

Jeff

Good to hear that Lexus is at least willing to listen and or review your fix.....

As for dimapb, I truly hope the dealer did do the fix Jeff posted. Because dealers get paid on warranty repairs from the manufacturer's bulletins in flat rate time plus materials and their is not such thing available, I wonder what they wrote on your work order as far as time and materials, they have to post that. If you see something on your work order that says "straight time" it would refer to a flat time a dealer needed for a fix that was not in a Lexus manual. They have to be authorized by Lexus first.
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Old 04-26-08, 12:57 PM   #47
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Jeff, et all,

My salesman at the dealer verified that he presented Jeff's information to the service manager. The service manager supposedly told him that he (service manager) is familiar with this triangle problem. I am making an appointment Monday to try this for my car and also my business partner's car. We obviously do not have the major problem that Jeff has had but I don't see how it can hurt and try to make it even more quiet.

I have also just emailed the salesman the latest input from Jeff on the proper technique in the fix.
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Old 04-26-08, 10:10 PM   #48
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I call Lexus Corp. and address my issue of the wind noise for them. They gave me a call back and said that there is a special group of designer looking for to solve this problem. and they said they will give me a call back again to see what they find out. but until now,(almost a month) they have not call me yet.
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Old 04-27-08, 05:03 AM   #49
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Christmas is coming too. And so is the next leap year in 2012.
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Old 04-27-08, 10:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by garyr View Post
Good to hear that Lexus is at least willing to listen and or review your fix.....

As for dimapb, I truly hope the dealer did do the fix Jeff posted. Because dealers get paid on warranty repairs from the manufacturer's bulletins in flat rate time plus materials and their is not such thing available, I wonder what they wrote on your work order as far as time and materials, they have to post that. If you see something on your work order that says "straight time" it would refer to a flat time a dealer needed for a fix that was not in a Lexus manual. They have to be authorized by Lexus first.
I have initiated a buy-back because of the wind noise about 2 months ago. For that reason, dealer is not allowed to work on my car when it comes to wind noise, but because I built a good relationship with the service manager, he just did it w/out recording it. No paperwork exchanged hands and Lexus was not charged for this fix. I was really hoping that this would solve my problem as I really like the car and don't want to go thru hassle of the buyback process, but in my case, it didn't work.
In reference to another post above... Lexus Corporate is probably one of the worst customer service companies I have dealt with in my entire life. They never call you back when promised and keep giving you BS excuses.
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Old 04-27-08, 05:51 PM   #51
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I am sorry to hear that diampb did not have any improvement in his LS460L wind noise problem. So far his is the only report that we have other than mine. I still feel that my situation is vastly improved. I have some noises, in fact new noises, ones that I probably couldn't hear before because they were masked by noises that are no longer there because of my sealing. But they are noises that I would expect to have and they are not objectionable. So far I seem to be the only known case of crossing over from the unhappy LS460 owners to the happy owners. We really need some more inputs and maybe we will hear from others this week.

I agree with diampb in his assessment of Lexus Customer Relations. It seems to me like they have just about shut down. I sense they are under intense pressure, perhaps legally and financially, over this "wind noise" issue. I sort of had to force feed them my information about the fix I did on my car. They would not return my phone calls and threatened me for sending an email to one of their internal email accounts - an address I got from the Lexus dealership rep. Someone else in this forum said that Lexus is probably looking at the information that I sent even though they emailed that they were not interested in my ideas. I think that is probably true and perhaps they are already thinking about what I found even though they have not received the stuff I mailed them on Friday.

So, if they decide that my fix could help others then they could probably move very quickly to make that type of fix to the cars that it would apply to. I think the way that I did mine could be considered permanent. The beauty of my fix is that it doesn't require any parts (you reuse the trim that you take off), the material is readily available (you can get the sealant at Home Depot and one tube should fix 4 cars), no special tools required (a small putty knife), no special facility required (you can do it in the parking lot, or at a residence or a contract body-shop etc.), a technician should be able to do 4 cars an hour (no special training). I don't think anyone could tell by looking at mine that I did anything to it. A faster curing sealant would expedite the process and I think that is also readily available.

I know some of you are probably considering drastic action. diampb says he is giving up a car he likes. I was about to do what ever it took to be rid of my problem. Maybe waiting another week to see what happens would be better than pushing your car over a cliff tomorrow.
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Old 04-27-08, 06:08 PM   #52
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Once again we seem to have LS owners who appear to have absolutely intolerable wind noise, and others who are scratching their heads wondering what in the hell these guys are talking about.

Jmcraney - I can't tell of you have an '07 or '08 LS ... that may be worth knowing, since it seems much of the dissatisfaction was with '07's. Which do you have?

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Old 04-28-08, 01:02 PM   #53
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Smile Wind Noise

Jmcraney

I am a long time reader, first time poster. This is to thank you for all your research and for sharing your findings. I purchased one of the earliest LS 460models. It is in every way a great car with the exception of the wind noise problem. I have had both TSIB's done. The mirror fix did nothing while replacement of the front side windows with laminated glass did result in an improvement. It was still not equal to the wind noise level of my 2003 LS 400.

Your "fix" seemed the best explaination for the various levels of wind noise (or lack of it) experienced by many owners. I found that the upper corner of the plastic triangle peeled back quite easily. It was necessary to cut the double sided tape that held the triangle in place with an exacto knife but it came off quite easily. On examination the double sided tape had not sealed the guide holes or the "large" holes at the corners that you described. I sealed the corner holes with black silicone and beaded the perimeter as shown.

It worked! The car is now as silent as my earlier model. My wife and I both agree that there is a great improvement to the level of wind and cross wind noise at different levels of speed and at various velocities and angles of headwind. Thank you so much.
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Old 04-30-08, 06:42 PM   #54
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Attention!!!!!

I had the wind noise problem - I fixed my car. bc07 had the wind noise problem and he fixed his car the same way I fixed mine - see his post #845. If you are not a DIYer you can get this done at a body-shop (Lexus probably will not do this for you yet but I am working on them)

You can try doing this as an intermediate step if you are afraid to mess with your car.

Go to Home Depot and get a roll of blue masking tape. Start your tape out on the chrome (forward) and lap it on to the glass (aft). Completely cover the triangle-trim. Use several strips of tape depending on the width and be sure to overlap on to the chrome all the way around. And use several plys, like 5 or 6, that way you will add some dampening in case there is flexure of the trim. Bandage that baby up like it has been a fight. Getting it off will be the same problem with 1 ply or many. Of course you have to keep in mind not to roll your window down while your have the tape on because that might cause problems. You probably know not to use the brown or tan masking tape because it will damage almost anything if it is left on even an hour if it is exposed to heating from the sun. You probably shouldn't leave the blue tape on very long either but it should be much easier to get off. Doing this at night or on a rainy day is even safer. And be sure to do both sides at the same time.

Don't forget to do both sides at the same time.

I think you will be amazed.
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Old 04-30-08, 07:06 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcraney View Post
Attention!!!!!

I had the wind noise problem - I fixed my car. bc07 had the wind noise problem and he fixed his car the same way I fixed mine - see his post #845. If you are not a DIYer you can get this done at a body-shop (Lexus probably will not do this for you yet but I am working on them)

You can try doing this as an intermediate step if you are afraid to mess with your car.

Go to Home Depot and get a roll of blue masking tape. Start your tape out on the chrome (forward) and lap it on to the glass (aft). Completely cover the triangle-trim. Use several strips of tape depending on the width and be sure to overlap on to the chrome all the way around. And use several plys, like 5 or 6, that way you will add some dampening in case there is flexure of the trim. Bandage that baby up like it has been a fight. Getting it off will be the same problem with 1 ply or many. Of course you have to keep in mind not to roll your window down while your have the tape on because that might cause problems. You probably know not to use the brown or tan masking tape because it will damage almost anything if it is left on even an hour if it is exposed to heating from the sun. You probably shouldn't leave the blue tape on very long either but it should be much easier to get off. Doing this at night or on a rainy day is even safer. And be sure to do both sides at the same time.

Don't forget to do both sides at the same time.

I think you will be amazed.

ditto. i have had the fix, and the sound was still there but more muffled. and, the sound became less when i lowered the window just a smidge.

yesterday i had the car in for my seasonal tire change, and i asked service to take a "listen". when i picked the car up, service wrote on my slip:

"Note. TSIB already performed. Removed drivers and pass front door panels and installed EPT foam underneath inside lower window seal. reinstalled door panels and test drove. Noise is significantly reduced."

I was told by service that before the work was performed Lexus was consulted.

I drove the car home, but can not give you my opinion as it was VERY windy.
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Old 05-01-08, 01:11 AM   #56
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Not to be picky but I just want to correct one small inaccuracy in the very first post. Some of the early 2008 model year SWB did in fact come without the lamisafe glass.
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Old 05-01-08, 01:17 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Not to be picky but I just want to correct one small inaccuracy in the very first post. Some of the early 2008 model year SWB did in fact come without the lamisafe glass.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have added an asterisk and noted that information. It helps to be as accurate as possible.
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Old 05-01-08, 06:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcraney View Post
Attention!!!!!

I had the wind noise problem - I fixed my car. bc07 had the wind noise problem and he fixed his car the same way I fixed mine - see his post #845. If you are not a DIYer you can get this done at a body-shop (Lexus probably will not do this for you yet but I am working on them)

You can try doing this as an intermediate step if you are afraid to mess with your car.

Go to Home Depot and get a roll of blue masking tape. Start your tape out on the chrome (forward) and lap it on to the glass (aft). Completely cover the triangle-trim. Use several strips of tape depending on the width and be sure to overlap on to the chrome all the way around. And use several plys, like 5 or 6, that way you will add some dampening in case there is flexure of the trim. Bandage that baby up like it has been a fight. Getting it off will be the same problem with 1 ply or many. Of course you have to keep in mind not to roll your window down while your have the tape on because that might cause problems. You probably know not to use the brown or tan masking tape because it will damage almost anything if it is left on even an hour if it is exposed to heating from the sun. You probably shouldn't leave the blue tape on very long either but it should be much easier to get off. Doing this at night or on a rainy day is even safer. And be sure to do both sides at the same time.

Don't forget to do both sides at the same time.

I think you will be amazed.
I didn't make it very clear what I am trying to get to with the tape. I didn't mean for you to make a dome over the triangle-trim with the tape. What I am trying to get you to do with the tape is kind of coat the triangle-trim like a coat of paint. Press the tape down as you go and be sure to overlap on all sides. I haven't tried this and am not certain it will work well, but it should. Anyway, it shouldn't hurt anything if you don't leave it on too long.
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Old 05-01-08, 01:51 PM   #59
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I had my car out this afternoon and drove around, not over 45 mph, exposing it to wind, from many angles, that is gusting to 33 mph. There is no wind noise, no swish, no swoosh, no nothing, nada, zero, zip. I still can not get over the improvement in the isolation from outside noise even when the car is standing still. I don't know what accounts for the improved noise isolation. It could be from filling the large gaps at the triangle-trim rear corners with sealant, or it could be from sticking down the triangle-trim with the sealant thus better isolating the registration holes or it could be from the dampening provided by the sealant cross stripe in the bead pattern under the triangle-trim. I know I have said this before, but that cross stripe might be very important - that wasn't my intent when I put it there. For you DIYers, you want the triangle-trim to sound like clunk/clunk when you tap on it with your fingernail instead of click/click - a sort of solid sound instead of a hollow sound.

I think this problem is just in the 07 and 08 LS460s. I went out to one of the dealerships today and looked at several different models and found that the design of the triangle-trim piece on the 07 and 08 LS460s is uniquely theirs. Lexus is using a similar design on other models but it is slightly different and in my opinion will never be a problem.

My opinion is that all of the LS460s - both 07 and 08 - have the wind noise problem, will develop the wind noise problem or could suddenly develop the wind noise problem to some degree. If the cause is just those big gaps at the rear corners - the mounting tape is all in order and holds firmly - then they all will have some noise from that depending on how large the crack is to the outside. Noise that is caused from a failure of the mounting tape which could be the result of damage from pressure washers, a manufacturing defect, aging, etc could come on at any time.

The good news here is that this problem can be fixed with little expense and without compromising the integrity or the beauty of your car. And when you get it fixed your vehicle will probably be the quietest car you have ever been in. I still can't believe a car can be as quiet as mine.

And Lexus will still not speak to me or return my phone calls. Go figure?
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Old 05-01-08, 04:54 PM   #60
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Wow! This is very impressive, jmcraney. Not even any swishing sound. I am looking forward to doing this for my LS460L. I do have a question however. If I understand you correctly, there is no mounting tape needed, right? One just needs to apply the sealant on top of the mounting tape that is already there around the perimeter of the triangle and also apply the sealant cross stripe as shown in your photos, correct?

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