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LS460 Wind Noise Fix (continued discussion)

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Old 04-20-08, 02:32 PM   #16
Mike_TX
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I don't know what those square/rectangular holes under the plastic piece are for, but while I was in there, I think I'd put a strip of good heavy tape or something over them, too! The sealant around the edges ought to be enough, but just for insurance ...

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Old 04-20-08, 05:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
I don't know what those square/rectangular holes under the plastic piece are for, but while I was in there, I think I'd put a strip of good heavy tape or something over them, too! The sealant around the edges ought to be enough, but just for insurance ...

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The square hole, rectangular hole and round hole are for alignment and locking fingers that are part of the inside back of the plastic triangle piece. Depending on what breaks off when you pull it off you will need those holes unobstructed when you put it back on. So maybe tape is not a good idea. The sealant bead pattern I depicted (the cross stripe could be a little lower) in the photo with the yellow text provides good isolation for the three alignment holes. I drove my car again today and the improvement is really stunning. I hope others experience some improvement too.
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Old 04-20-08, 05:41 PM   #18
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Yes, you are looking at the forward corner of the window in the right front passenger door of my 2007 LS460
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Old 04-20-08, 05:42 PM   #19
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What am I missing here? I thought the major problem with wind noise was on the driver's side window. However, according to the latest findings by jmcraney, there is a fix for the wind noise on the passenger's side as discussed above in detail. Can someone explain this to me? Can the same fix work on the driver's side? I am asking this because, I do have some swishing wind sound (only on the driver's side) with cross winds. It would be nice to eliminate even the swishing sound. But maybe, I am asking for too much.
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Old 04-20-08, 05:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnaby View Post
Great procedure! I presume we are looking at the exterior of the car just forward of the mirror, are we?

I believe you have sleuthed a fix which I suspect may even preclude the complicated replacement of the glass itself...

Lexus, are you reading this?
Yes, you are looking at the forward corner of the window in the right front passenger door of my 2007 LS460.
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Old 04-20-08, 05:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsSoxfan View Post
What am I missing here? I thought the major problem with wind noise was on the driver's side window. However, according to the latest findings by jmcraney, there is a fix for the wind noise on the passenger's side as discussed above in detail. Can someone explain this to me? Can the same fix work on the driver's side? I am asking this because, I do have some swishing wind sound (only on the driver's side) with cross winds. It would be nice to eliminate even the swishing sound. But maybe, I am asking for too much.
I am sorry that I did not make that clear. I fixed both sides exactly the same. So I can't say whether one side provided a fix or better improvement than the other. I sort of got carried away and fixing both sides seemed like the right thing to do. The photo is of the right front door but if you need to know what the left front door looks like I could send you a mirror image of the same photo and you wouldn't know the difference.
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Old 04-20-08, 06:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jmcraney View Post
I am sorry that I did not make that clear. I fixed both sides exactly the same. So I can't say whether one side provided a fix or better improvement than the other. I sort of got carried away and fixing both sides seemed like the right thing to do. The photo is of the right front door but if you need to know what the left front door looks like I could send you a mirror image of the same photo and you wouldn't know the difference.
jmcraney, I (and everyone else here) greatly appreciates your research and probable fix of what has been the longest discussion in history. If this is indeed a fix of the problem, Lexus ought to pay you at least a $million for discovering it. And I am being very serious here. Can you trade mark this fix?

Do you still have some swishing wind sound after this fix?
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Old 04-20-08, 06:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsSoxfan View Post
What am I missing here? I thought the major problem with wind noise was on the driver's side window. However, according to the latest findings by jmcraney, there is a fix for the wind noise on the passenger's side as discussed above in detail. Can someone explain this to me? Can the same fix work on the driver's side? I am asking this because, I do have some swishing wind sound (only on the driver's side) with cross winds. It would be nice to eliminate even the swishing sound. But maybe, I am asking for too much.
You may not have any improvement toward eliminating the swishing sound from cross winds. I think all cars have some of that under extreme conditions. My problem was roaring sound sensation up around my shoulder and poor isolation from traffic noises. The fix that I did on my car provided a big improvement for the swishing noise from cross winds but did not completely eliminate it.
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Old 04-21-08, 07:15 AM   #24
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Man, now were cooking with fire.......WOW great job JMCraney and Mike

I just cut and pasted this to my dealer.....Great documentation!!!!!!

JMCraney; I think your post is a great show of ingenuity, something the Japanese may be lacking in their pursuit to perfection. Posts like yours is what makes these kind of boards so great to me and I'm sure others....well done.
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Old 04-21-08, 07:41 AM   #25
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Talk about coincidences...

Had the TSB done Oct 2007. Came back with worse noise. Sent it back and also complained about the black triangles not being fitted well at all. Came back second time much quieter and my triangles well fitted.

Did the spring wash and wax yesterday and noticed the triangles had worked their way out of position. Was thinking to myself that I just need to pull them off and fix them right - and wondering how they were attached. Finished waxing, went inside, and read jmcarney's triangle posts for the first time.

If the triangles are part of the problem, I wonder if they might work their way out of position, which could partially explain those cars which develop wind noise after a few thousand miles.

Anyway, thanks for the pictures jmcraney!

Bob
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Old 04-21-08, 08:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyr View Post
Man, now were cooking with fire.......WOW great job JMCraney and Mike
I get no credit - I didn't do anything but help get the pictures posted.

All kudos go to jmcraney!

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Old 04-21-08, 08:24 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
I get no credit - I didn't do anything but help get the pictures posted.

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Mike without you stepping up to the plate and helping him there would have been no post. Good Job
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Old 04-21-08, 09:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob321 View Post
Talk about coincidences...

Had the TSB done Oct 2007. Came back with worse noise. Sent it back and also complained about the black triangles not being fitted well at all. Came back second time much quieter and my triangles well fitted.

Did the spring wash and wax yesterday and noticed the triangles had worked their way out of position. Was thinking to myself that I just need to pull them off and fix them right - and wondering how they were attached. Finished waxing, went inside, and read jmcarney's triangle posts for the first time.

If the triangles are part of the problem, I wonder if they might work their way out of position, which could partially explain those cars which develop wind noise after a few thousand miles.

Anyway, thanks for the pictures jmcraney!

Bob
I have given this a lot of thought about what might be going on here dynamically. The wind currents might be very strong in the area of the triangle trim at highway speeds plus any headwind/crosswind components.

In my case, the large gaps that are under the rear corners (I am talking about both sides of the car) seem to be the real problem. It is possible that other cars do not have these large gaps or they may be closed with something. On my car the plastic triangle trim seemed to be firmly placed with mounting tape. But, as you can see from my picture – the one with the red text on it - that the mounting tape did not adhere along the bottom as evidenced by the tear-off-residue. If the adhesion of the mounting tape had been adequate, then the problem might have been much less severe.

As for what causes the noises: I don’t know if the wind currents cause an over-pressure or under-pressure but lots of things could happen. Air could be entering or exiting in this area, depending on the pressure, and could be amplified by liftoff of the trim if the pressure is low. The plastic triangle trim could act like a reed and produce some odd sounds. Or wind blowing over those gaps at the corners could produce sound kind of like blowing on a jug. Another possibility is that the trim piece could vibrate like a drumhead and cause some strange sounds. This sort of speculation is kind of like “stompin **** ants while the elephants are in the corn” because the cause is not really important anymore.

A competent engineer with some time to ponder this problem can probably come up with a more elegant solution. My approach takes about 10 minutes to do both sides and cost about $1 in materials. The only concern I have with my solution is that the sealant might not adhere well to the plastic or chrome but for now everything is much better. I will let you know if I loose my trim to the wind. For now, a Noiseless/Trimless Lexus might be better than a Noisy/Trimmed Lexus.

In the cases where this problem manifest itself over time, that may be cases where the mounting tape has let go. Another possibility is that the tape lets go because of the strong wind currents in that area.

If your plastic trim piece is moving around, I think you should be concerned about that.
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Old 04-21-08, 11:03 AM   #29
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^ That's a thoughtful and comprehensive analysis of the situation.

I'm wondering if some good 3M double-sided tape placed completely around the perimeter of the trim piece wouldn't get the job done ... and would be more easily reversible if anyone wanted/needed to take the trim off again.

Just a thought. But in the meantime, I imagine the silicone will be there for the duration. It sticks to most anything.

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Old 04-23-08, 07:09 AM   #30
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Just dropped my car off at the dealership to have this (new) fix performed. I'm picking it up later today. Will report the results tomorrow. Thank you for suggesting it.
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Old 04-23-08, 07:09 AM
 
 
 
 
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