Helmar

With the above statement you've completely dismissed other opinions on this matter. It's unacceptable to you. It's acceptable (albeit undesirable) to me.

As I've said before, sure I'd prefer to not be locked out on certain functions, but on balance, it's an acceptable tradeoff. Just about all of the functions that I regularly use are not blocked.

Decisions such as this are hardly made at that level. Be upset with the upper level management who are the ones that determine this policy.

HBH

LexusLean

Of course, no car is "perfect", I'm just incredibly curious as to why at this price point...we must endure "trade-offs"? Setting aside my particular service issue...whether the "upper management" is wearing a white coat or not...you would "think" the danger inherent in pulling your vehicle over in traffic to access a particular point of interest or CD track would countermand the fearful paradigm of litigation that they seem to embrace.

The simple fact that there is no override is an insult to the customer, considering the choices available in this price segment, and, referring to the title of this thread...no. I'm not "happy".

Of course, if you or anyone else can sanguinely rationalize being hamstrung from utilizing features in the vehicle you have paid dearly for, more power to you...I can only relate to the readers my unique perspective as a dissatisfied owner.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

please give me a break on "a car at this price point we shouldn't expect this" thing. when you go to acura forum, you see people saying "i don't expect this problem on a 30k acura", and now i am hearing this. remember, there are owners spending 200k or 300k on exotics, what statements are they going to use.

i can understand some people not like the car and have complaints, but please, keep that to yourself and remember that's your complaint, there is no need to generalize it to everyone else in the forum. you think that's trade-offs that's fine, but not all think so. if you think that's an insult, that's an insult to you, not all customers. there are people (at least Helmar and me) who really sees the danger of operating nav while driving over pulling over in a safe area

like or not is always, i mean ALWAYS, a subjective comment. everyone can voice their opinions about what they like or hate. but never make it sound like you are speaking for all. that's always where those threads start to go downhill -- either on the IS forum or even here in the LS forum

Johnny

Excellent post, LexusLean. While I am entirely sympathetic to your frustrations, they seem to narrow down to two very valid points, both of which are somewhat subjective in their personal impact according to one's perceptions or tolerance. As a result, I don't think they result in your car being an abject failure from an overall perspective. Once your lane changing "noise" issue is resolved satisfactorily - and I sincerely believe it will be - your ownership experience should take a turn for the better (at least I hope so for your sake).

Which brings me to your evident frustration with the center stack's loss of use/functionality while in motion; it is one that has not struck me the same way it has affected you, but that I am nevertheless sympathetic with your cause. I believe Lexus should revisit its philosophy in this case, as it amounts to an arbitrary NavNanny strategy that I'm certain is driven by their stellar legal luminaries. Other manufacturers are probably standing on the sidelines to see how this "liability issue" plays itself out, but so far it must be starting to get pretty cold and lonely out there for Lexus.

I'm sure Lexus is reading this, so guys, "Get with the program".

rominl

iTrader: (4)

good point burnaby. i do agree lexus is pretty alone on this one. at least on the 08 they finally don't have the "i agree" screen. i take it as a good first step

nobuddy

FYI, Infiniti locks out functions similar to Lexus LL is correct about the other manufacturers.

The Voice Navigation on Infiniti, is much better than on Lexus, so at least you can get around a little better, assuming it recognizes your voice

RXSF

okay, heres my small imput. albeit i dont own the latest generation nav on my RX, i still have the blackouts. So to start out, who uses their nav every day? *looks around the room, sees only a few hands*. okay...so whats the problem? on an everday basis, you should know where your going. i dont know about you guys, but i dont use the nav ever, its just cool to have. i already know where all the gas stations are in the bay area that i would go to, i already know how to get home from work and back there again in the morning. i already know the local restaurants that i would be eating that night. infact, i think i have been on every street in san francisco...its not that hard.

now granted, i am pushing my lifestyle in the post, but give me a break, how many of you actually imput destinations on a daily basis.

now, i also dont have the nav versions with the radio integrated screen. but if those are blacked out when driving, you are still in the same boat as lower generation navs. we still have to look at the one word scrolling thing on the actual radio screen. so its not that bad.

there should really be only two screens that you should be on, on a daily basis. Climate control (which isnt blacked out) and the trip information screen (which isnt blacked out). the only other thing is radio but you can use the radio screen.

so there we have it. why its actually not such a big deal after all.

mmorozov

I surely hope the Nav system wasn't designed with this idea in mind I, in fact, use it daily and wherever I go just because of the traffic information and automatic re-routing. Oh, sorry, I forgot that RX doesn't have the traffic info. But it actually serves as a good example here. People that are not bothered with enforced limitations in nav/audio/video simply don't have it, or don't use it. Now if you don't use something, you probably shouldn't have bought the option in the first place. You are only "happy" about it because you don't have the need for it. When you do, you will be hating your car for making you do stupid, unnesessary and unsafe things, like stopping on the freeway or driving 3 miles back to the "nearest" gas station, when there is one 4 miles away on your route.

LexusLean

Then, of course we wouldn't even need access to all of the blacked out restaurants, hotels and CD and HDD tracks on our LS460's...if we never left our hometowns.

Who would ever want to drive a classically superlative touring sedan on a long trip to unfamiliar territory while selectively listening to your favorite tunes on your state of the art ML stereo system...?

bsims_01

I've had my ls460 for 2 months now and am quite pleased with it so far. Mind you, it still has less than 1000 miles on the odometer, but I have driven it enough to offer some feedback.

This is my first Lexus and I was attracted to the car because of its design (gorgeous), price point (s class and 7 series just outside my comfort zone), and Lexus reputation for quality (this remains to be seen). I traded a 2007 Denali in for the Lexus, which was a nice vehicle, but I was tired of maneuvering around town in tugboat.

So far, I have mostly positive feedback to offer. The power train is outstanding, it gets great gas mileage for such a large car, and the creature comforts are second to none. Personally, I do not have a problem with the nav system. As with RXSF, I rarely use it. Yes, the "I agree" screen is a bit of a pain, but it's no big deal. My Denali's nav system had the same disclaimer. The Mark Levinson sound system is by far the best factory sound system I've ever listened to.

That being said, I do have a few complaints with the car, most of which were mentioned earlier in this thread:

1. The transmission hesitation is present in my car. However, the dealer can reprogram the car to eliminate this. I will have this issue addressed when it goes in for the first service.

2. I have yet to take the car on a road trip, but I think the excessive wind noise is present in my car as well. Most of my driving is around town and there is absolutely no wind noise at the speeds I drive. There are extensive discussions of the wind noise problem in this forum and the repairs that have been made. If it starts to bother me, I will have the dealer address it.

3. My car came with the Bridgestone Turanza (sp?) tires. These things are almost as noisy as the off road tires on my 4x4. Curious, because I've had Bridgestones on other vehicles and I loved them. In fact, my Denali had Bridgestone tires and they were very quiet. No matter, I've got a set of aftermarket wheels and tires on the way.

4. Probably the most annoying problem I am having is a rattle in the dashboard. This just appeard a couple of weeks ago. The rattle is very pronounced in the morning when the car is cold. However, once it has warmed up and been in the sun for a while, the rattle is virtually undetectable. I was going to take the car in to the dealer to look at this problem, but decided to wait until my first service. I may even try to eliminate the rattle myself with a little foam or other packing material.

Every new car I've ever owned came with a few gremlins that needed correction. The Lexus is no different. At this time, though, I love the car and am optimistic that any complaints will be resolved by the dealership. Hopefully, I can say the same 6 months from now.

mmorozov

It is not just the limitations. There is some wildly stupid selectiveness as to what is safe and what is unsafe.

1.Three pages of the quick dial numbers are OK, yet a single-page list of nearest gas stations is not.

2.Seeing a one-line radio text message is unsafe, but slowly reading the same message in the button as it scrolls is acceptable.

3. You cannot simply start the CD recording with a single button click (it is greyed out), but you can do it by setting up the "automatic recording" by going into another screen and pressing 3-4 buttons. How is that safer?

4. You cannot see the list of albums, so you end up scrolling through the list one album at a time. It takes longer and it is even more distracting. Instead of a quick glance and a single touch, you end up looking at the screen for an extended period of time and pressing the up/down buttons searching for a particular album.

And if you look closely at the things that are allowed (as some here consider as "acceptable trade-off"), you will see that they are simply insulting:

1. Who will ever need to go to the "nearest restaurant" not caring what kind of food it is?

2. The button to start CD recording is enabled, but when you click it, the list of songs is grayed out and you cannot even "Select all". All you can do is go back.

3. The thing is brain dead while in-motion, but you still have to Agree to some stupid message nobody ever reads.

It's not just the limitations. It is the senseless way they are implemented that bugs me.

Helmar

generalizations, Generalizations, GENERALIZATIONS!

I'm not overly bothered by the lockout and although not EVERY day, I do use my nav system several times a week. In fact the nav system on the Lexus was a major consideration on selecting a Lexus over a Mercedes, despite the lockout (I much prefer the touchscreen to the iDrive/COMAND system).

Geez, while moving I can select POIs to display, I can select a pre-set destination, and any other function on climate control or audio that I've tried to do hasn't been locked out.

I fiddle with the audio frequently while driving. I guess I haven't tried all of the other functions that others are complaining about being locked out of.

Entering an address while driving, which I could do on my previous BMW, is a very dangerous thing to do. I knew it while I was doing it. Is anybody complaining about having the DVD player locked out while moving? That's only somewhat less dangerous. I don't read a book while I'm driving either, but I've seen a driver doing that.

True, I don't like being nannied, or told what I should and shouldn't do, and on occasion, setting an address while driving would be convenient, but, well, I got over it! It's still an excellent system that I'd be loathe to be without.

HBH

LexusLean

Your last post brilliantly captures the whole issue.

Kudos.

mmorozov

Now that you mentioned POIs

I already have important POI's showing. When I am trying to display another POI category I get an error message - "Only 5 POI categories can be displayed, please delete some POI categories and try again". Here is my rhetorical questions to Lexus:

1. Why couldn't you display 6 POI categories? Or 10? Or ALL, like my Honda Odyssey does? What is the rationale behind this stupid unnecessary limitation?

2. Now if you system truly isn't capable of displaying more than 5 POI categories, why couldn't you make it a little user-friendly by simply deleting the oldest selected POI category and replacing it with the new one? If I am requesting to display a gas station, I want to see a gas station, like, NOW. I don't have the time to drill through the screens and menus and delete some POIs, which by the way isn't possible because of the motion lock-out.

3. Why your voice recognition system tries to display some POI category every time it can't understand my command? It looks like some kind of a "catch all" basket for unrecognized commands. I say "Destination", it says "Displaying gas stations. Cannot display more than 5 POIs, blah-blah-blah".

You call it a "generalization", but you actually prove my point. You don't see limitations because you don't attempt to use certain functions. If you don't use the "Find nearest" command and have all your destinations pre-set, obviously you wouldn't complain about this particular feature.

Respectfully yours.

Maurice

My answer is no.

I have owned Lexus cars (mostly LS) since 1992.
While as some said, the LS460 is a marvel of technology, I have the wind noise problem, and I cannot stand it. The fix is a patch - not a fix.
There is much to like in the car - but the wind noise is for real at least in my car, no matter what spin Lexus tries to give it.

I regret I traded my '04 LS430 for the '07 LS460.

There are other minor issues that have required dealer visits - something my previous Lexus cards did not.