Blackraven

So I heard and saw that the Hybrid version still has manual mode (+ and -) like in the LS460 SWB/LWB.

Someone told me that at D, the CVT is the one doing the work but once you push the shifter to the "manual mode area", the computer already creates 8 "virtual gears" given it the presence of manual overdrive from 1st-8th gear (like in the 460).

From Lexus Japan website:
Gear ratios for ECVT during Manual Mode operation
1st = 4.596
2nd = 2.724
3rd = 1.863
4th = 1.464
5th = 1.231
6th = 1.000
7th = 0.824
8th = 0.685
Reverse @ 2.176
Final @ 2.937

Based on what is in the tech specs.

So can any care to give feedback on the manual mode of the LS Hybrid ECVT?
Does it deliver the same (or better) manual mode performance as with its 460 sibling??? Or are there any possible setbacks when CVT allocates the virtual gears???

Any feedback is accepted

Helmar

According the the manuals, the manual mode is used only to control deceleration.

From the "LS600hL Owners manual":

Shift ranges and their functions

. You can choose from 8 levels of engine braking force.

. A lower shift range will provide greater engine braking force than a higher shift range, and the engine revolutions will also increase.

From the "LS600hL Hybrid overview":

The "D" transmission range is used for performance, normal, or economical driving. Only use the "S" transmission ranges if needed to help maintain vehicle speed when going down steep grades. The lower the range, the greater the engine braking force.

By the way, the CVT transmission has no reverse gear. Reverse is handled strictly by the electric motor.

HBH

350Dave

Has anyone tried backing the hybrid up a steep grade?

RXSF

i highly doubt its only for braking seeing how you dont need gears 4-8 for that. to help when breaking downhill, you only need 3-1.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

regardless of what the manual says, i am sure you can use the s mode whenever you want. probably not as "usual" as normal 8 speed owners though in order to "hold" gear

Blackraven

Quite interesting........but I'm now starting to get confused.

So that means that Lexus does not recommend the use of the manual mode??
And the statement on how the "D" is used for performance didn't make much sense to me. Isn't that why "S" (manual mode) would be used?

So I guess what romini said then is that you can use the manual mode in anyway we like (regardless if Lexus doesn't state it in their manuals or whatnot???). So if buy a Lexus LS600hL, I would have the liberty to use the manual mode/S mode 'forever' when I'm driving (forward of course) yet still being assured that there won't be any damage to the transmission???

However, I don't think anyone has answered my question on how the vehicle performs when manual mode is used??? Has anyone here tried it?

I know that there won't be any engine sound till you reach like 40 km/h (or whatever that is in MPH) but even so, has anyone tried it on cruising/highway sprint (especially at over 180 km/h.....not that I'm advocating breaking of speed limits, of course)???

Is the manual mode of the E-CVT still stable even at those high speeds (from gears 1-8)???

Thanks and I apologize if I'm noobish on the subject.

Helmar

I have, but I don't know what you're looking for. It backs up normally (and silently!).

What are you trying to accomplish with the manual mode? At any speed, when you floor the accelerator, the RPM's rapidly climb to over 5000 and stay there until you let up on the accelerator. It's hard to test this thoroughly since in just a few seconds I'm going way too fast. How could that be improved with manual shifting?

Under normal driving conditions, the RPM's stay between 1000 and 1400.

From the LS600hL Owners Manual:

Downshifting 7 > 6: Maximum speed allowed is 120 MPH
Downshifting 6 > 5: Maximum speed allowed is 96 MPH
Downshifting 5 > 4: Maximum speed allowed is 76 MPH
Downshifting 4 > 3: Maximum speed allowed is 55 MPH
Downshifting 3 > 2: Maximum speed allowed is 47 MPH
Downshifting 2 > 1: Maximum speed allowed is 35 MPH

HBH

rominl

iTrader: (4)

for a traditional tranny, say the 8 speed on the ls460. every time you want power or hold a gear (just say you want to race), downshifting is costly and slow. that's why you want to put the car in s mode so you can control the highest gear you are in.

however, with the ecvt, every time you gun it, the power is instant already. there is no "downshift" needed, so technically there is no point in putting the car in s mode at all. just gun it and the car will pick up from there

that's what happened when i was at laguna seca with the ls600hl. at any speed, i just floor and the car picked up right the way, no down shift, no waiting. the car was in D.

if it was the ls460l, then i could imagine the tranny working very hard to keep up with me and still being slower. in that case, i'd use s mode for sure

Blackraven

Hmm....now this is the statement that I'm trying to comprehend (given my poor automotive background/knowledge)

Give me a minute............

Okay, now I have a question:
So that means that 'S' isn't much of a necessity for this vehicle. HOWEVER, if I still want to get the feel that I want to do the gear changing by myself (manual over ride), will the car (and the ECVT) rise up to the challenge???????

How do I put this? Umm....say that my friend has a Honda Fit/Jazz HB with CVT and 7-speed manual mode (or even 5-speed AT for USDM models; doesn't matter). Would I get the same manual mode functionality that I get from the Honda in this car?

If I start from 0, floor the accerator pedal, make my shift from 1st to 2nd, then 2nd to 3rd (at 40 km/h), 4th to 5th (at around 80 km/h), then the remaining gears and above. Then, if there is a need to overtake, just downshift and accelrate and stuff.

Proabably what I mean in layman's terms (I think........):
Does the manual mode feature in the ECVT of Lexus LS Hybrid give the functionality of a real manual transmission (where driver can change gears on his own free will ; may it be upshift or downshift).

Or maybe think Initial D/Maximum Tune-style racing. Driving an RX-7 with manual tranny = Lexus LS Hybrid with ECVT using manual mode.

Can I treat the Lexus LS Hybrid and its ECVT manual mode the same way that I do with any lower-end car with a manual transmission??? Can I make the latter really behave like what is done with any manual tranny car???

Possible??? (sorry if I still can't get it right )

rominl

iTrader: (4)

hahhaa no problem, i can see why it's confusing. initially when i first saw the s mode on the gs450h i went huh as well. but after some thoughts it could work

first of all, something should be clarified. the s mode does NOT work like normal manual. keep in mind you can ONLY determines the HIGHEST gear you are in, NOT the exact gear. so for example today you are in a ls460l and put it in 4 and you are at the stop light going. you will start from 1st gear, then 2nd, etc....

now with the ecvt and if you put the car in d and just go from stop, you will see the rpm just keep on rising and rising and rising. unlike automatic where you will see it rise, drop down when it shifts, then rise again, etc....

so that's why i said in the 600hl, it doesn't really gain you much by putting the car in s coz' your rpm is already close to a optimal range. when you press on the gas and gun it at speed, it doesn't have the "downshift" anymore. rpm just picks up where it's at and keep on going

DrComputer

So far manual mode has been good for only one thing... when going about 100mph on the freeway and you see a cop in the rear-view mirror, flip it into manual and downshift. It seems to slow the car down pretty quickly without having to slam on the brakes and bring attention to yourself. I did this a few times while on a trip this weekend from LA to San Jose going up the 5 freeway. The darn laser cruise control will only go up to 88mph. Way too slow for the 5 freeway. I Had to use the manual cruise mode to set it at 100mph. The LS600 is so quiet that at 100mph it felt like I was cruising at 60.

Blackraven

I'm aware of this as well (given that I've seen a lot of Xtronic CVT demos in the internet).

But that's under 'D' mode and not in a manual mode.

So what happens now???

Let's say Jarno Trulli (one of the F1 drivers of the ToyotaF1 team) test this car out on the Fuji Speedway. He starts from 0 and sets shifter to 'S' mode. The gear on display is S->1 at start. Then he presses the accelerator, then upshifts two 2nd gear and so on and so forth.

I think I do understand that the LS Hybrid will STILL give the driver the option to change the gears (upshift/downshift) whenever he feels like it. So sports-minded drivers/racing enthusiasts can still the get the feel of driving a manual/semi-auto (like drivers of the ToyotaF1 team).

I guess the only difference would be that for this car, there is NO NEED to downshift(??) but the OPTION is still there to downshift. So, if you take this car to a heavy/sharp turn at Laguna Seca raceway, once you hard brake and make the turn, you are NOT NEEDED to change into a lower gear to gain optimal RPM but THE CAR STILL ALLOWS YOU TO DOWNSHIFT.

Am I getting this right??? If you desire to really pull the shifter to the ' - ' position to downshift (let's say from 5th to 4th to 3rd), then the LS Hybrid & its ECVT will still allow you to do so (even if it is not needed to maintain optimal RPM)

So, that means that the drag racers, street racers, highway warriors, Inital-D fans, Maximum Tune road drifters will still feel at home in this car (because of the liberty for them to change gears on their own thus, emphasizing the term 'manual mode')???

or

rominl

iTrader: (4)

now that's pretty dangerous in getting a ticket

vraa

iTrader: (2)

So they new LS is 1mph better than the LS430. The LS430 goes up to 88mph

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Blackraven - perhaps you're missing one point. Driving the LS600hL in 'manual' mode is guaranteed to be SLOWER than in D letting the tranny do its own thing.

There ARE NO discrete gears in any mode it's a continually variable ratio.

An engine under part or no throttle will slow down if the gearing is lowered because it must raise rpms to maintain the same speed and due to mechanical resistance it will instead slow the car down. So Lexus is exactly right that the manual mode just locks the variable ratios into certain discrete positions forcing higher rpms and different degrees of engine braking. The CVT's normal mode picks the ratio to match the throttle position and torque curve always keeping the optimum balance.

If you want to win a race against a Fit (lol), just leave in D and floor it. You could use one of the mods in another thread here so you'll be able to see the Fit in the rear view camera.