brt3

I just met with the manager of our dealership regarding our front bumper. My car came in suddenly as an early allotment, and they installed the front license bracket without my knowledge. Now, management did everything they could to help me, but they are only installing what they are given by Lexus. So, my beef here is with Lexus, not the dealer.

Now, on a car this sophisticated -- one that has had each and every detail sweated over profusely by a myriad of Lexus engineers -- one would expect them to use a system similar to many BMW and Mercedes products, where you can mount or dismount the front plate bracket without permanently drilling or damaging the front bumper.

You'd be wrong, however. The Lexus front plate bracket works like this:

Grab air wrench
Attach 10mm hex socket
Take 2 10mm hex-head self-tapping screws
Line up front plate bracket
Install 2 10mm self-tapping bolts directly into bumper without drilling pilot holes...

Which results in:

Customer who doesn't want front plate removes bracket, only to see large holes that are augered into the front bumper. Because the bracket is attached using an air wrench with self-tapping screws, the installation pulls out the bumper in the area immediately surrounding the hole. Ugly, very ugly.

I wondered if I was being too **** about this, but finally my wife asked me if I was going to ask the dealer to fix her car.

Sorry if I'm not my usually objective self, but I was hugely disappointed that a company that designs a center console armrest that glides into place like magic, casts solid metal to make the polished window trim in one piece, buffs the steering wheel leather for hours to get the proper finish, and color-sands the paint to get a perfect gloss -- I had somehow assumed that a company like this would not think it acceptable to pop two rather large screws directly into the front bumper for an item that is not even required in many states...

Also, before anyone thinks that I'm trying merely to roast Lexus, I suggest they read one of these threads, both of which are full of praise for the LS460L:


https://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244679
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=244805

So, caveat emptor! If you are getting ready to take delivery of one of these cars -- and you don't want to run a front plate -- insist that the dealer leave it off of your car!

STIG

When I was picking my IS350, I told the dealer that I would not take it if they drill the bumper with those 2 ugly holes.

My solution was 3M double sided tape and works well.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

unfortunately i have to agree that's a problem with lexus that i can never understand. on all their cars, i mean gs, is, sc, es, and now the ls, they all don't have any type of bracket mechanism to hold the license plate, and they always have to drill holes into the bumper. that's sooo beyond me, especially when a 30k acura has better design.

that's why when i order my car i told them specifically do not drill holes or i will not take delivery....

but back to your car, in your orginal post you said there are already factory holes to hold the license plate but dealer decided to drill two more? can elaborate more? does the car come with some holes in the front bumper already or all the holes are done by dealership?

Car Nut

Thank you for the warning.

I thought that the front bumper had two dimples in the plastic where the metal underneath was pre-drilled. And I don't even like to see those dimples leave alone a big hole. I have already requested my dealer not to make any marks in the front bumper of my LS when it arrives.

LeslieRC

Cosmetics aside, isn't the dealer required to install, or facilitate the installation of, front license plates if the car is being registered in a State that requires front license tags?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i wouldn't say it's required, but it could backfire. front plate is always required in CA, but it's not until last yr or so where most dealerships really enforce it coz' they got people complain about their tickets.

for most dealerships here, when you don't want front plate drilled in, now you need to sign a waiver

LeslieRC

Out of curiosity I just did a little research on this subject and found a California State law that appears to prohibit car dealers in that State from delivering vehicles without front license plates.

Here's the relevant text:
CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
AB 1272 (Dutra)
As Amended June 22, 2004
Majority vote

-----------------------------------------------------------------
|ASSEMBLY: |53-23|(January 26, |SENATE: |22-13|(August 9, |
| | |2004) | | |2004) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Original Committee Reference: TRANS.

SUMMARY : Prohibits a dealer from delivering any vehicle unless
specified requirements are met pertaining to the installation of
front license plates.

The Senate amendments :

1)Prohibit a manufacturer or distributor from selling or
distributing a new motor vehicle for which two plates have
been issued unless the vehicle is equipped with brackets or
other means to secure the plates.

2)Allow a person to take delivery of a vehicle from a dealer
without a front license plate bracket if the dealer obtains
from that person a signed written acknowledgement expressly
refusing installation of the bracket.

EXISTING LAW specifies that when two license plates are issued
by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) for a vehicle, the
license plates shall be attached to the vehicle for which they
were issued, one in the front and the other in the rear.

AS PASSED BY THE ASSEMBLY , this bill prohibited, following the
sale or lease of a vehicle, a dealer from delivering the vehicle
unless one of the following requirements are met:

1)The vehicle is equipped with a license plate bracket or other
means of securing a front license plate.

2)The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgement that the
person taking delivery of the vehicle understands current law
that requires a front license plate and that the hardware to
install the plate is available from the dealer.









AB 1272
Page 2

FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations
Committee analysis, there are no direct state costs.

COMMENTS : According to the author, new cars at the time of sale
are sometimes not equipped with front license plate brackets
which can "contribute to the misconception that motorists are
only required to display a back plate."

However, current law requires vehicles that have been issued two
license plates by DMV to display the plates on the front and the
rear of the vehicle. Some vehicles, as the author contends, are
often sold without the proper equipment to mount the front
license plate. Unless the new owner is aware of this
requirement, he or she could be operating the vehicle illegally
if the license plate is not attached to the front. In 2002, the
California Highway Patrol (CHP) identified nearly 40,000
citations that were issued for this offense.

In order for drivers to obey the law and avoid citation, they
must take it upon themselves to physically mount the plate to
the front of their vehicle. The author suggests that, at a
minimum, the owner of a vehicle without a front license plate
bracket should be made aware of current law and be given the
opportunity to install the plate prior to delivery. When a
consumer purchases a vehicle, it is reasonable to expect that
the vehicle purchased is compliant with current law.

If a vehicle is delivered for sale in California without a means
to secure a front license plate, one can argue that the vehicle
is being delivered out of compliance with current law. This
bill requires that a license plate bracket or a means to secure
a front license plate bracket be supplied to the new owner of a
vehicle at the time of delivery. Dealers are given the
responsibility of supplying such brackets. However, the bill
also requires manufacturers and distributors to provide the
necessary brackets or equipment to allow the dealers to fulfill
that responsibility.


Analysis Prepared by : Howard Posner / TRANS. / (916) 319-2093


FN: 0006948

Pinball

brt3, No you're not too **** - you're right on! Like some of our other CL members, I won't take delivery if the dealer has drilled holes into the front bumper. Is it too much to suggest that you take your LS to your nearest Lexus bodyshop for a quick repaint? Most of us like our cars to be "just so" and the plain fact is that the front plate (and its oversize bracket) mars the appearance of an otherwise beautiful facade. As we all know, Calif. Vehicle Code section 5200 requires a front and rear plate, but enforcement is spotty, and I'd much rather pay a small fine and keep the appearance the way I want it. Incidently, for all our license plates, I use the beautiful and watertight acrylic frames from Mats.com which are elegant! Take a look at their web site (I have no affiliation!) and see if you don't agree. And if Lexus really wants to move up-market, they'll require their dealers to upgrade the dealer license plate frames from plastic to a decent gauge metal. Remember, it's the details that count! Relentless pursuit.....not "passionate" pursuit!

spwolf

eh, i wouldnt repaint the car... that beautiful paint is shame to waste...

brt3

Ah, yes -- I posted that a few days back, but I was mistaken.

All LS460s come with two "factory" holes that line up exactly with the top two license plate holes on US plates. However, I assumed wrong -- these do not facilitate running bolts through the license, then the bracket, and into the bumper -- which would be a far more elegant solution (these could easily be capped). The "factory" holes just allow the bracket to "seat" into place, after which they drive the "ugly" screws into place.

brt3

That being said -- and thanks for Googling! -- I have lived in CA for 21 years and have NEVER had a front plate on ANY of my cars. The dealers I've spoken with have not been able to cite a specific legal requirement that they deliver a vehicle with the front plate bracket.

The need for a front plate is pretty silly, I would think. The only benefit I can think of is for "Meter Maids" (not a very PC term, I realize) but most of them could use the extra walk to the rear of the car. The only other benefit I can think of is that a front license plate makes an ideal target/reflector for those nasty Laser/LIDAR speed guns...

brt3

I actually don't think they can fine you the first time. A "Fix-it" ticket is usually issued, which gives you 30 days (I believe) to show up at a local DMV office and show them that you've fixed the situation.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

my wife was pulled over for no front plate the FIRST day she drove the gs400. the cop was nice and told her that this is to allow them to use the redlight cameras more effectively

boo.....

MadMax96

That's a bummer that the mounting method is so archaic on these expensive cars.

My mom used to have a Sebring coupe and I removed the front plate/bracket after it was mangled too much (her own fault). Even a cheap car like that had a metal bracket that had arms that would go into an opening in the facia. If you looked up under the overhang in the front you could see and access the bolts that held it. What was nice is that once it was removed, you couldn't see anything that indicated there was once a plate frame on the car.

And no, I don't think you're being too ****. If someone drilled into my bumper I'd be pretty ticked too.

Now that I think of it, my '99 LS front plate is mounted the same way - just self tapping screws right into the bumper cover. Oh well.......

h2o_247

brt3,

thanks for the warning. Yet, can you show me where in this picture are the holes drilled to you bumper? Thanks in advance.

regards,

felix