Best, shmest
08-23-06, 08:23 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Best, shmest
People that crave the approval of others are obsessed with asserting that THEIR choice of (car/motorcycle/home/washing machine/computer) is THE BEST in the world.
These same people subconsciously equate the superiority of THEIR item means that they themselves are superior to other people, or at least equal to. It can go so far as to explain such things as "quiet cabin" or "smooth ride" as an undesirable trait, since "Good" drivers want to hear and feel the road, making a deficiency of their choice an asset.
It’s true that in the LS series, Lexus doesn’t maximize the speed that the car can corner. In exchange, they’ve made the ride quieter and smoother.
How often are most owners of a BMW 750, MB S500, or Lexus LS460 going to test …………..
1. 0-45 from a red light or 35-65 merging onto a highway.
2. Powering through a slalom at maximum speed.
3. Enjoying a luxurious, quiet and smooth ride, and having fun with the “gadgets”.
From my own personal experience, I’d say that the answer to item 1 would be “occasionally”, the answer to item 2 would be “never”, and the answer to item 3 would be “all the time.”
If you say “Yes, but in an emergency situation ….”, I would contend that all are about equally agile in an emergency to all but professional drivers.
So, which attribute is important and which is not?
Sorry for the long harangue, just some observations I've been accumulating.
By the way, I've owned a 1999 LS400 and a 2003 LS430. I currently drive a 2006 BMW 330xi (wanted AWD and manual transmission) on a 2 year lease and will be going back to a Lexus LS when the lease is up.
HBH
These same people subconsciously equate the superiority of THEIR item means that they themselves are superior to other people, or at least equal to. It can go so far as to explain such things as "quiet cabin" or "smooth ride" as an undesirable trait, since "Good" drivers want to hear and feel the road, making a deficiency of their choice an asset.
It’s true that in the LS series, Lexus doesn’t maximize the speed that the car can corner. In exchange, they’ve made the ride quieter and smoother.
How often are most owners of a BMW 750, MB S500, or Lexus LS460 going to test …………..
1. 0-45 from a red light or 35-65 merging onto a highway.
2. Powering through a slalom at maximum speed.
3. Enjoying a luxurious, quiet and smooth ride, and having fun with the “gadgets”.
From my own personal experience, I’d say that the answer to item 1 would be “occasionally”, the answer to item 2 would be “never”, and the answer to item 3 would be “all the time.”
If you say “Yes, but in an emergency situation ….”, I would contend that all are about equally agile in an emergency to all but professional drivers.
So, which attribute is important and which is not?
Sorry for the long harangue, just some observations I've been accumulating.
By the way, I've owned a 1999 LS400 and a 2003 LS430. I currently drive a 2006 BMW 330xi (wanted AWD and manual transmission) on a 2 year lease and will be going back to a Lexus LS when the lease is up.
HBH
08-23-06, 09:10 AM
#2
What is best for you may not be the best for me.
Can't it be a "Win-Win" situation? You "win" with your car, I "win" with mine. You may have something better than mine, but the reason why I got my car is because I found it better than yours.
It's not about having or being the best, it's about having what is best for yourself...
CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG?!?
08-23-06, 09:42 AM
#3
fact is, all big players, bmw 7, mb s, and the ls, they all continue to get more and more power (mb s class doesn't just have v12, but two freaking turbos on them too). also, the cars are all getting more and more gadgets and equipments.
those are facts, and it seems like people are looking at them
those are facts, and it seems like people are looking at them
08-24-06, 09:03 AM
#4
Moderator
One can only go so far as being objective about something being the best. One can measure horsepower, torque, weight, height, wheelbase, compression, reliability, dependability, speed, etc. There's no problem there.
The trouble we all have is the subjectivity part and the combination of factual objective parts and components on a particular model. Some people want an IS 350 with all-wheel-drive. Guess what Lexus dosen't make it but Lexus has the technology. Will making and IS 350 with awd make it better or even the best. I don't know but what's best for you may not be the best for me. I agree with PhilipMSPT that what's best for me may not be the best for you. I personally see the 2007 LS 460 as gorgeous but others may see it differently and that's fine. No need to argue or be obsessed that the LS looks "the best" compared to other cars.
The trouble we all have is the subjectivity part and the combination of factual objective parts and components on a particular model. Some people want an IS 350 with all-wheel-drive. Guess what Lexus dosen't make it but Lexus has the technology. Will making and IS 350 with awd make it better or even the best. I don't know but what's best for you may not be the best for me. I agree with PhilipMSPT that what's best for me may not be the best for you. I personally see the 2007 LS 460 as gorgeous but others may see it differently and that's fine. No need to argue or be obsessed that the LS looks "the best" compared to other cars.
08-24-06, 08:00 PM
#5
I remember Lexus touting this UK independent survey on 'The Finest Car in the America'...
AMCI (Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc) said the LS 430 beat out the S-class, Bentley Arnage, Rolls-Royce Silver...
http://lexus.com/about/press_release...r_02_11_a.html
AMCI (Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc) said the LS 430 beat out the S-class, Bentley Arnage, Rolls-Royce Silver...
http://lexus.com/about/press_release...r_02_11_a.html
08-25-06, 08:06 PM
#6
Intermediate
I think the thread openner has lost sight of the simple fact that Lexus is a LUXURY brand.
Luxury, by definition is about having crap that you don't necessarily need but is cool to have anyway.
Another thing to remember is that it is in cars like these that automotive advances are made. As much as they arent necessary, all those freakin sensors and cameras will sure as heck save a life or at least minimise injury in an accident. No one really needs them but that's what luxury is about.
At one time, airbags were a luxury option. Now they're required.
Ceramic brakes started off as the belly of the space shuttle.
That's just the way things work. If you can pay for it now you can have it first but eventually many of these things can become standard safety features.
And i mean, cameras that watch to see if you're paying attention and then warn you if there could be trouble ahead. Who wouldn't want that???
The other thing to remember is that, this being a luxury car, having all this crap is just part of the deal. You wouldn't find this stuff on a Corolla or a Cobalt because when you buy one of those that's not what you set out to pay for.
All's i know is that if i have to be stuck in Toronto traffic for 2 hours a day, I'd like to be stuck in the 460. If I want to hit the twisties a couple times a week I should go buy a Miata or something like that. To me the 7 series isnt supossed to be an, "Ooh I love how this thing steers" kinda car. It's a luxo cruiser.
When they say "Best car ever made" I think that what they mean is that this car is the best at what it is designed to do; move a person around in ultimate style, ultimate comfort and ultimate safety with almost all the amenities that you could possibly want.
Honestly, isnt this what this car is made for?
Luxury, by definition is about having crap that you don't necessarily need but is cool to have anyway.
Another thing to remember is that it is in cars like these that automotive advances are made. As much as they arent necessary, all those freakin sensors and cameras will sure as heck save a life or at least minimise injury in an accident. No one really needs them but that's what luxury is about.
At one time, airbags were a luxury option. Now they're required.
Ceramic brakes started off as the belly of the space shuttle.
That's just the way things work. If you can pay for it now you can have it first but eventually many of these things can become standard safety features.
And i mean, cameras that watch to see if you're paying attention and then warn you if there could be trouble ahead. Who wouldn't want that???
The other thing to remember is that, this being a luxury car, having all this crap is just part of the deal. You wouldn't find this stuff on a Corolla or a Cobalt because when you buy one of those that's not what you set out to pay for.
All's i know is that if i have to be stuck in Toronto traffic for 2 hours a day, I'd like to be stuck in the 460. If I want to hit the twisties a couple times a week I should go buy a Miata or something like that. To me the 7 series isnt supossed to be an, "Ooh I love how this thing steers" kinda car. It's a luxo cruiser.
When they say "Best car ever made" I think that what they mean is that this car is the best at what it is designed to do; move a person around in ultimate style, ultimate comfort and ultimate safety with almost all the amenities that you could possibly want.
Honestly, isnt this what this car is made for?
Last edited by dfkd; 08-25-06 at 08:14 PM.
08-26-06, 01:21 AM
#7
I think the thread openner has lost sight of the simple fact that Lexus is a LUXURY brand.
Luxury, by definition is about having crap that you don't necessarily need but is cool to have anyway.
Another thing to remember is that it is in cars like these that automotive advances are made. As much as they arent necessary, all those freakin sensors and cameras will sure as heck save a life or at least minimise injury in an accident. No one really needs them but that's what luxury is about.
At one time, airbags were a luxury option. Now they're required.
Ceramic brakes started off as the belly of the space shuttle.
That's just the way things work. If you can pay for it now you can have it first but eventually many of these things can become standard safety features.
And i mean, cameras that watch to see if you're paying attention and then warn you if there could be trouble ahead. Who wouldn't want that???
The other thing to remember is that, this being a luxury car, having all this crap is just part of the deal. You wouldn't find this stuff on a Corolla or a Cobalt because when you buy one of those that's not what you set out to pay for.
All's i know is that if i have to be stuck in Toronto traffic for 2 hours a day, I'd like to be stuck in the 460. If I want to hit the twisties a couple times a week I should go buy a Miata or something like that. To me the 7 series isnt supossed to be an, "Ooh I love how this thing steers" kinda car. It's a luxo cruiser.
When they say "Best car ever made" I think that what they mean is that this car is the best at what it is designed to do; move a person around in ultimate style, ultimate comfort and ultimate safety with almost all the amenities that you could possibly want.
Honestly, isnt this what this car is made for?
Luxury, by definition is about having crap that you don't necessarily need but is cool to have anyway.
Another thing to remember is that it is in cars like these that automotive advances are made. As much as they arent necessary, all those freakin sensors and cameras will sure as heck save a life or at least minimise injury in an accident. No one really needs them but that's what luxury is about.
At one time, airbags were a luxury option. Now they're required.
Ceramic brakes started off as the belly of the space shuttle.
That's just the way things work. If you can pay for it now you can have it first but eventually many of these things can become standard safety features.
And i mean, cameras that watch to see if you're paying attention and then warn you if there could be trouble ahead. Who wouldn't want that???
The other thing to remember is that, this being a luxury car, having all this crap is just part of the deal. You wouldn't find this stuff on a Corolla or a Cobalt because when you buy one of those that's not what you set out to pay for.
All's i know is that if i have to be stuck in Toronto traffic for 2 hours a day, I'd like to be stuck in the 460. If I want to hit the twisties a couple times a week I should go buy a Miata or something like that. To me the 7 series isnt supossed to be an, "Ooh I love how this thing steers" kinda car. It's a luxo cruiser.
When they say "Best car ever made" I think that what they mean is that this car is the best at what it is designed to do; move a person around in ultimate style, ultimate comfort and ultimate safety with almost all the amenities that you could possibly want.
Honestly, isnt this what this car is made for?
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08-26-06, 06:22 PM
#8
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08-29-06, 04:51 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Helmar poses an excellent question....
How does one quantify the "best"? Should a luxo barge handle well at high speeds? Would Princess Diana have survived in a Lexus 600hL? Possibly..with PCS. All of the exotic cars that sell magazines and gawkers drool over are mostly a fashion statement in the hands of the owner who is a driving dilletante. Should the best be unique? I don't see any other Hybrid AWD super tankers out there or proposed. Should they not only look good and perform well but continue to do so without fail? BMW and Mercedes would have to look at their feet in shame when that question is posed. The more expensive the model the less reliable. We used to have a saying at Rolls-Royce that a Rolls never breaks down it just fails to proceed.....To be the best in category you can't merely win by a nose you have to dominate. As the competition got bigger and bigger displacement Lexus found a way to make equivalent power with a smaller V8/hybrid and a CVT with hi/lo range. Will it be quiet? They had to find ways to muffle the servo motors as they stood out like a ticking grandfather clock in a library. It's basically an intelligence test and those that are lucky enough to purchase the 600hL will be showered with adulation by association...
Rock
Rock
08-29-06, 06:53 AM
#10
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Great comment!!! I am new to this forum, but not new to Lexus. I had a 90 LS400 and a 96 SC400, My next will be the 460. I have always found that people either love or hate Lexus. Those who hate are usually driving a BMW or MB. A friend recently proclaimed the LS to be an oversized Camry, I agreed if we could then call his S500 a Dodge. I was next to an A4 at the gas station this morning and I could not tell if it was a 4 or 6 until he pulled away so I could see the badge. I find that common for all Audis. Lexus is doing a great job of keep a brand identity but making each model recognizable. To me a segment leader should stand out from not only the competion but also its siblings.
Lexus has always been for me the pinnacle of quality and reliability. In my eyes I see it as a serious competitor for the S550. I would not drive a 750L if it was givin' to me, they don't inspire me in any way (An M5 is a different story).
There can be no best car, it is an impossible exercise. Since cars are mostly subjective we can only say what is best to us individually.
I think we look back at Lexus the same as we look at Walmart. They went unnoticed until they became too big and powerful to compete with. Five to ten years from now I think MB and BMW will both struggle to stay in the game unless they start now to design and build quality into their vehicles.
Ed
Lexus has always been for me the pinnacle of quality and reliability. In my eyes I see it as a serious competitor for the S550. I would not drive a 750L if it was givin' to me, they don't inspire me in any way (An M5 is a different story).
There can be no best car, it is an impossible exercise. Since cars are mostly subjective we can only say what is best to us individually.
I think we look back at Lexus the same as we look at Walmart. They went unnoticed until they became too big and powerful to compete with. Five to ten years from now I think MB and BMW will both struggle to stay in the game unless they start now to design and build quality into their vehicles.
Ed
08-29-06, 07:27 AM
#11
So many great points that I just wanted to see if I could compete...haha!
IMO all the luxo barges are great cars...and beautiful. They each have some brand uniqueness that sets them apart from other marques. I would have no problem owning the S-Class, 7 Series or A8. They all have luxurious interiors. They all produce big power but so refined you hardly know the engine is running. They all are gorgeous. They all include the latest techno toys. I would put the LS on equal footing with these cars, especially the new LS. One thing the others don't have is the Lexus reliability. The LS is probably the least reliable Lexus but still superior to the other brands by far. That, imo makes it the better car by far. Reliability is also a subjective issue that some people don't care about. They'd rather have the Mercedes history and prestige even that means monthly trips to the shop. Reliability is my #1 value point in a car and that puts the Lexus LS the number 1 car in the world in my book.
IMO all the luxo barges are great cars...and beautiful. They each have some brand uniqueness that sets them apart from other marques. I would have no problem owning the S-Class, 7 Series or A8. They all have luxurious interiors. They all produce big power but so refined you hardly know the engine is running. They all are gorgeous. They all include the latest techno toys. I would put the LS on equal footing with these cars, especially the new LS. One thing the others don't have is the Lexus reliability. The LS is probably the least reliable Lexus but still superior to the other brands by far. That, imo makes it the better car by far. Reliability is also a subjective issue that some people don't care about. They'd rather have the Mercedes history and prestige even that means monthly trips to the shop. Reliability is my #1 value point in a car and that puts the Lexus LS the number 1 car in the world in my book.
08-29-06, 07:45 AM
#12
the thing some MB BMW fans fail to realize is their cars in Germany are very stripped down, no features, weak engined. Heck BMWs etc are taxis in Germany. They are prettied up featured up engined up for sale to the US. Hey doesnt that sound familiar with Toyota->Lexus. So in the end the originations of MB/BMW/Lexus are the same. Some argue Lexus is an overpriced toyota, I can say BMW is an overpriced BMW euro spec
08-29-06, 08:21 AM
#13
Intermediate
IMO, Lexus came out only 16 years ago and is showing them [BMW, MB, Audi, Jag] that like "I'm so freaking cool AND reliable that I don't need 50 years of prestige OR even a big engine to compete with you...AND I'm actually winning!!!"
To me the ability to do that is just a sign of skill and cunning. The new asian kid is winning MVP.
To me the ability to do that is just a sign of skill and cunning. The new asian kid is winning MVP.
08-29-06, 01:59 PM
#15
Moderator
IMO, Lexus came out only 16 years ago and is showing them [BMW, MB, Audi, Jag] that like "I'm so freaking cool AND reliable that I don't need 50 years of prestige OR even a big engine to compete with you...AND I'm actually winning!!!"
To me the ability to do that is just a sign of skill and cunning. The new asian kid is winning MVP.
To me the ability to do that is just a sign of skill and cunning. The new asian kid is winning MVP.
In my opinion Lexus is the best in it's class. I'd rather be driving a ten year old Lexus with the air conditioner on while I'm driving to Vegas on a 110 degree summer day than be driving a 2006 MB or BMW stuck on the side of the road because of electrical problems. But you sure will look really good because that 2006 MB and BMW is so prestigous...I'll just smile as I pass by...
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