LexFather

For comparison ladies and gents:
2006 BMW 760 Test Drives
Starting MSRP $111,500
6.0L V-12 438 HP engine
15 MPG city, 23 HWY
ALL SPECS
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7/760...n/techdata.htm
Unladen 4905 lbs
Weight distribution, front/rear 51.0/49.0 %
Engine
Liter/type 6.0/V-12
Bore/stroke 3.50/3.15 in
Nominal output/rpm 438 @ 6000 hp
Max torque @ rpm 444 @ 3950 lb-ft
Compression ratio 11.3 :1
Fuel grade Unleaded premium
Transmission
Automatic gear ratios - I/II/III 4.17/2.34/1.52 :1
Automatic gear ratios - IV/V/VI 1.14/0.87/0.69 :1
Automatic gear ratios - R 3.40 :1
Final drive ratio 3.15 :1
Performance
Acceleration, 0-60 mph 1 5.4 sec
Top speed 2 150 mph
Aerodynamic drag coefficient 0.29 Cd
Turning circle 41.3 ft
Fuel consumption 3
City/highway 15/22 mpg
Tires, wheels and brakes
Tire dimensions - Standard - front; rear 245/45R-19 Front; 275/40R-19 Rear5
Tire dimensions - No-cost option - front; rear 245/50R-18 Front; 245/50R-18 Rear4
Wheel dimensions - Standard - front; rear 19x9.0 Front; 19x10.0 Rear
Wheel dimensions - No-cost option - front; rear 18x8.0 Front; 18x8.0 Rear
Material alloy
Brake dimensions (diameter x thickness) - front; rear 13.7x1.18 Front; 13.6x0.94 Rear inch


http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2...estdrive2.html

If speed is not your primary reason for buying a car, then you could sacrifice the V-12 for the perfectly respectable V-8 engine of the $74,500 2006 750Li, which offers exactly the same legroom. For even less money, but for a perfectly luxurious--if not as fast--ride, we would also suggest looking at the silken Lexus LS 430, which has a MSRP of $56,225, or the unpopular--but excellent--Volkswagen Phaeton, which goes for $66,500.

Forbes will love this LS 600h then!

LexFather

A8 L W12 quattro
Auto Tiptronic® quattro®
$118,190
450 hp at 6,200 rpm and 428 pound-feet of torque at 4,000 rpm



http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_10...wsarticle.html

Audi has proudly unveiled its new flagship model, the 12-cylinder A8 L, at the 2004 NAIAS in Detroit.

The brand with the four-ring badge has once again raised the benchmark for dynamic performance in the very top automotive bracket with the launch of a vehicle characterised by superlatives.

According to Audi Australia's managing director, Graham Hardy, this new model will be evaluated for launch in Australia.

"This absolute hero model is the kind of powerful icon capable of raising the image of Audi locally, and as such its introduction in Australia will be carefully considered," Mr Hardy said.

"Following our recent announcement that Audi Australia will become a wholly-owned subsidiary of AUDI AG, effective 1 January 2004, we will have many more opportunities like this one where we are in a more favourable position to consider the introduction of niche, yet iconic models, into Australia in pursuit of our goal to position Audi as a brand focussed on sports performance."

Quite possibly the most sporty luxury saloon in the world, the Audi A8 L 6.0 quattro boasts 12-cylinders, 331 kW (450 bhp) and 580 Newton-metres of torque - a gain of 30 bhp and 20 Nm on the predecessor model.

The A8 6.0 L quattro sprints from 0 to 100 km/h in 5.2 seconds, and accelerates from 0 to 200 in a mere 17.4 seconds. The twelve-cylinder model reaches its electronically-governed top speed of 250 km/h after scarcely 30 seconds.

Perhaps even more impressive however, is the spontaneity of the six-litre engine which translates every adjustment of the throttle into acceleration and revs supremely smoothly right up to the rated limit of 6,200 rpm if desired.

At the same time more than 95 percent of the engine's peak torque is available between 2,300 and 5,300 rpm - the ideal basis for supreme pulling power in every velocity range. The torque characteristic of this large-capacity naturally aspirated engine is without comparison.

The six-speed automatic transmission with tiptronic function makes sure that exactly the right amount of power is always available, and also offers the driver the chance to intervene actively in the tiptronic gearshift gate. The automatic transmission's Sport program waits for higher engine speeds before shifting up, and shifts down sooner, allowing the full revving ability of the twelve-cylinder engine to be utilised.

In conjunction with the low weight of the aluminium body built using the Audi Space Frame (ASF) principle, the engine and transmission turn in an excellent performance coupled with exemplary economy.

quattro permanent four-wheel drive remains unequalled in the luxury segment. It translates engine performance into superbly effective propulsion and lateral support. The aluminium chassis with air suspension as standard is a feature found only on the new A8 L 6.0 quattro, a system that delivers the right characteristic for every situation, by means of the continuously variable damper settings, the adaptive air suspension reduces body movements, while optimising roadholding and ride comfort.

The driver can choose between four predefined settings via the MMI, for a suspension characteristic spanning the full range from overtly sporty to ultra-comfortable.

The A8 L 6.0 quattro is recognisable at first glance as the top model in the range. Its front end is distinguished by the new formal idiom of Audi design. Its central element is the striking single-frame radiator grille, the outer chrome ring of which surrounds the painted grey fins of the grille with horizontal chrome strips. The W12 badge provides a visual indication of the vehicle's potential.

The clear glass headlight covers visibly display the technology that they protect. The 12-cylinder A8 is the first car in the world to be equipped with the new lighting technology of adaptive light with LED daytime driving lights, whose distinctive 5-star lighting elements also have a dual function as new design features for the vehicle's front end.

This revolutionary technology means that the A8 L 6.0 quattro is the first vehicle in the world on which the use of daytime driving lights has virtually no effect on fuel consumption - a clear safety advantage, as the car is more easily spotted whatever the light conditions. This advance has been made possible by the use of LED units, the energy consumption of which is only a fraction of that of conventional bulbs.

The interior affords an atmosphere of superb luxury. The top quality of the materials and finish, visible and palpable down to the smallest detail, perfectly complements the spaciousness and perfected ergonomic layout. The driver and passengers alike can savour an ambience, the style, exclusivity and functionality of which are remarkable, even in the luxury car bracket.

All these characteristics highlight the sheer technological calibre of this luxury saloon and - in conjunction with the superlative drive train and suspension - create a unique vehicle: the Audi A8 6.0 L quattro.












http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106174

LexFather

EST $130, 000
The Mercedes S600 is powered by a 5.5-liter twin-turbocharged V12 rated at
493 hp at 5,000 rpm and 590 lb-ft of torque
at 1,800 rpm. And if that's not enough, Benz also offers the S65 AMG powered by a twin-turbocharged 6.0-liter V12 rated at
604 hp at 5,500 rpm and, you might want to sit down for this, 738 lb-ft of torque at 2,000 rpm


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=108739

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

if they made the LS600h around 85k it still would completely annihilate these guys

GFerg

Those two specs are OUT OF CONTROL!!! Look at how much torque is available at 1800rpm. My GOD!!

Of course the Hybrid LS will have tons of torque available at zero, but that is an all gasoline engine.

Gojirra99

Of the 3 above, the A8 W12 for me
So what if the S65 have 600+hp & 700+ lb feet ? I agree with Henry that the new S looks so much like an old man's car inside, I sat in one last week.
For the price of the S65, I can get the sexiest large luxury sedan of this group above, the A8 W12 plus a Z06 corvette which is a true sports car that can blow the doors off the S65 in a straight line & on the track.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

as a base price i think that's where the ls600h would be priced at. that's why i think a fully loaded one would be around 100k. which is still far below the base price of a base s600, a8 w12, or the 760i

i guess in this case i am biased towards the ls600h coz' i love the ls460 so much already. of the other 3 cars, it's going to be a very tough choice. the new s class is completely down the drain for me, i hate it from the outside to the inside, so it's off. exterior wise i would choose the a8 over the 760 for sure. but i don't really like the interior of the a8 w12 though. it just looks weird to me somehow in those pics

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

they need to make the price difference enough to steal people away from S550 and the V12 machines, if the pricing is too close people are just going to get the V12 machine. Im thinkng the hybrid will come very loaded from the factory and have few options similar to how the GS450h is. It should not exceed 85k-90k IMO. If it was even priced around the new 87k S550 it would just destroy it, way more power and tech

spwolf

kind of ... it also works backwards... A lot of people who have 120k to spend will not buy it because it is 30k too cheap.

why would Lexus put 5.0 V8 and not 4.6 into 600h? Because they want it to OWN. :-)

LEXUS FAN!

what's funny is that the LS460 is already faster than the 760Li and A8L

rominl

iTrader: (4)

good point, indeed i think they want to make a really strong statement with that

price wise, if the new ls600hl hits 100k, i think people looking at the other v12 will pay some attention

encore888

So not too high, yet not too low. High enough, yet low enough....

Man, I think Lexus needed a committee, team of economists, psychological index factors, and survey groups to figure out how to price/market this thing!!!

I think a $100,000+ tag will stick, perhaps $110,000. Not $125,000 unless some really really fancy stuff is thrown in. If the LS 460 base comes in around $65,000, then going twice that means it better be a lot more. I think with all the options, a 460 L might go to $90,000 if the base is as I mentioned.

And the marketing needs to have enough 'oomph' to make the 600h L have the cachet it deserves in the buyer's eye. If they're to push the 'ultimate' Lexus on them, will it come with 'ultimate' service (as opposed to the usually fantastic best-in-industry Lexus service) that moves them ahead of fellow IS, ES owners in the dealership line? Will the 'hybrid' tag sell it, or the 'V12' performance tag be pushed? Probably both, but the 'V12' tag is difficult as they need to overcome the (silly, I know) psychological barrier of 'it's not really a V12, it's a V8 with battery pack' etc. description. But it HAS the performance of a V12 with the economy of a V8--that's the tagline I think they'll use. Yet people that rich don't care about gas that much...so the 'economy' will be 'environmentally friendly.'

And then there's the whole 'price cachet' factor. If they need to 'price it up' to attract the number-dropping rich buyer, yet want 3,000-4,500 LS 600h Ls sold (according to the reports today, of 30,000 LS sold annually they expect 10-15% to be the hybrid), then they will have to make a 'low' base price and the 'showoff high' price (since there are limited options on this top-of-the-line vehicle). Perhaps a 'low' $90,000 to 'high' $110,000'?

I need to reexamine the options list more, but for instance XM satellite radio is standard...for 5 years? 10? How about Sirius? Anyhow, pricing this LS Hybrid and the way this will be marketed, conducted (code: UPMARKET) will be very interesting indeed. And very posh.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

actually i talked to lexus marketing people about this, that how lexus is going to use the "same" car (LS) to capture such a big market. that seems like a very tough job.

basically they are going to have the ls460 base with a very affordable price, just like the current ones, that will continue to dominant its segment. but this time arond lexus will have the L, and also the ultimate 600hl. the L is going to grab more buyers from the s class and also the 750il, both from a size and price stand point of view.

and then there is the 600hl, which is head to head with the s600 and the 760il. however, from what i was told, lexus will NOT go out hard and advertise on the 600hl. they will let people know such a car exists, but they won't spend too much effort to sell it to public. i was told that i shouldn't expect to walk into the dealership and see a 600hl sittingthere waiting to be sold.

instead, they are going to reach out in private channels and such, directly to the target audience / buyer, and sell the exclusivity and class. basically dealership will bring the car to the person to sell it. i think this is pretty interesting.

while different, it's somewhat similar to mb and bmw anyway. you go to bmw and mb dealerships, you can almost always find a s430 or the 750il sitting there where you can sit in and feel it. but you don't see a s600 or 760il most of the time. they don't expect to sell a lot of them anyway, and they don't want to have that car in the show room since they don't want everyone from the street to just sit in them.

and if you look at the price of s class. the s550 starts at 85k, and the s600 goes as high as around 140k. so that's about 60k difference.

now look at the ls460, ls460l, and the ls600hl. keep in mind there is no s class that compete with ls460 directly (no swb s class in the US i think). so assume the ls460 starts at around mid 50s, and the ls460h starting at around mid 60s, if the ls600hl caps at around 100 to 110, that's about 40 to 50k difference. kinda "on par" with mb ratio wise

but then, what do i know..... i am still hoping for lexus to hire me

GRAND_LS 4

iTrader: (2)

Woah, if you count how many LSXXX is mentioned, you can only imagine how fast Henry's head is spining

Gojirra99

Well, I happen to have a chance last year to sit in a brand new SL65 inside a dealership, that's the most expensive car in the MB line-up.
I was surprised that it had the top down & wasn't even locked. It's black on black, not the combination of my choice but still damn nice.
I was just browsing there & wasn't expecting to see a SL65 in the showroom at all because I expect them to be mostly factory ordered cars because of the hefty price tag. Since it wasn't even locked, I invited myself to sit inside the car & stayed inside for at least 15 to 20 minutes, & no salesman even attempted to come to the car during all that time. I almost didn't want to get back out .
I finally saw a salesman coming near , & I waved him & asked him a few questions. He told me they just ordered one so they can at least show the SL65 for anyone interested. This is only Vancouver & I suppose you can definitely find SL65's readily available in dealership in California in places like Beverley Hills etc..

The market for LS600hL will be even much smaller here than in the U.S. If that's Lexus policy of not even having a LS600hL in the showroom, I wonder if I would even get a chance to sit in one, maybe I would only see it in an autoshow, or one in the dealership that's pre-sold & all locked up.
As I have told you before, I don't plan to go for the 600h, but just the 460. What people do they target to present the LS600h, all current Lexus owners or just specific groups ? Maybe if I just pretend to be interested . . .